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Reiksmarshal
15-06-2011, 14:31
Thought id try something new with my empire army. Heres a 2000 pt list i worked up. What do you guys think??:)

Lords
1 Arch Lector 237
Heavy Armour
Great Weapon
Shield of the Gorgon
Van Horstmans Speculum
Holy Relic

Heores
1 Battle Wizard(Beasts) 125
Level 2
Dispell scroll

1 Captain of the Empire 88
Full Plate
BSB
Ironcurse Icon

Core
10 Knightly Orders 270
Full Command

10 Handgunners 80

10 Handgunners 80

10 Handgunners 80

Special
40 Greatswords 430
Full Command

20 Halberdiers(detachment) 100

1 Great Cannon 100

Rare
1 Hellblaster Volley Gun 110

1 Steam Tank 300

Total 2000

D'Haran
15-06-2011, 18:25
seems too weak in combat, but doesn't have the warmachines to make up for it in shooting.

Morax
15-06-2011, 20:51
seems too weak in combat, but doesn't have the warmachines to make up for it in shooting.

Agreed, you will no doubt be placing the AL in the block of greatswords. Making this unit the only one in the list that an opponant has to worry about. Most armies will match that with an elite fighting block of their own and cut it to bits. Greatswords are well...great but not able to stand on their own, need some help in the form of a buffing mage or a debuffing mage. To that end a level one just won't cut it at 2k.

I'd swap the knights and the detatchment of Halberds out for a parent unit of Halberds that will give you a second threat. Drop the Helblaster and a unit of handgunners for a pair of mortars and shrink the greatswords to further boost the unit of Halberds. This will give you 2 serious combat threats, anti-horde fire power, and the best tar pit in the game. More then enough to make an opponant worry.

Hope this helps.

Reiksmarshal
17-06-2011, 08:20
The mage is level two and I was thinking of taking beasts and going for signature all the time +1strength and toughness ll make the greatswords a lot harder to deal with.

Morax
17-06-2011, 12:12
The mage is level two and I was thinking of taking beasts and going for signature all the time +1strength and toughness ll make the greatswords a lot harder to deal with.

It will not change that you have only one combat block that your opponent has to worry about. A duel charge against the Greatswords and their detatchment will take away your combat support. With out the heavy fire power of a more traditional list the enemy elites will arive relatively unmolested. Empire soldiers just can't stand toe to toe with say Chosen or Saurus or White Lions, or Black Orcs, or well the list goes on.

You need either multiple threats or ways of softening incoming troops. Your list currently lacks both.

D'Haran
17-06-2011, 14:57
We don't argue that the Great Swords are a good unit and can perform, just that you've got a one trick pony in a game that usually takes at least 3 decent units.

RichBlake
24-06-2011, 03:04
Thought id try something new with my empire army. Heres a 2000 pt list i worked up. What do you guys think??:)

Lords
1 Arch Lector 237
Heavy Armour
Great Weapon
Shield of the Gorgon
Van Horstmans Speculum
Holy Relic


For 230ish points I'd rather have:

Arch Lector
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Van Horstmans Speculum
Holy Relic
Great Weapon
Total: 231

So that's a 1+/4++ save with a great weapon. Saying that I can't remember what shield of the gorgon does and my rulebook is downstairs which I'm far too lazy to fetch. I'm sure whatever it does wouldn't make me pick it over a 1+ save compared to a 5+ save


Heores
1 Battle Wizard(Beasts) 125
Level 2
Dispell scroll

1 Captain of the Empire 88
Full Plate
BSB
Ironcurse Icon

Personally I think you need a Level 4 by definition. Even with the +2 dispel dice from the Arch Lector your opponent's Magic phase will wipe you out. If I'm getting even the same power dice as you have dispel dice (I'm probably going to have more though even with your +2) you still need to roll whatever I have rolled +2 in order to stop it.


Core
10 Knightly Orders 270
Full Command

10 Handgunners 80

10 Handgunners 80

10 Handgunners 80

I'm not a fan of Knights personally but if you want them then why not. Personally though I'd give them Great Weapons and make sure a Warrior Priest is in with them.

The Handgunners seem a bit pointless. As you need to fully kill units to get any points in this edition combat is the best way to score. If you want handgunners though I'd suggest 20 with two detachments of 10 on each flank. I've used this before and it forms a nice valley of death. No-one likes 20 stand and shoot shots + another 20 stand and shoot shots without the -1.

Also I'd make sure the handgunners have command. The standard is too useful for the fortitude mission, the musician is needed for swift reform which you'll need to maximise your shooting and the Champion can take two pistols making your stand and shoot reactions at short range.


Special
40 Greatswords 430
Full Command

20 Halberdiers(detachment) 100

1 Great Cannon 100


I like Greatswords. Personally I think they require a Warrior Priest to be effective though. Maybe drop 10-15 out of the unit and use the points to get a Warrior Priest with the sword of might.

Can't argue with a cannon.



Rare
1 Hellblaster Volley Gun 110

1 Steam Tank 300

I love Steam Tanks. I'm too paranoid about the spells that can instant kill it with initiative tests but the last time I used it it flattened a Hydra and then got crippled, but it didn't die.

You come up against anyone not using:

A) Cannons
or
B) Purple Sun/Pit of Shades/Cracks Call/Cloying Quagmire

And watch them struggle to deal with it.

Morax
24-06-2011, 15:54
Purple sun, Pit of shades, and Cracks Call have a 50/50 chance at failure to kill the stank as it is typed a chariot and the crew has an init of 3. A scroll or seal of destruction can ruin the attempt quite quickly and then next turn its in combat. Cannons do some damage but are unlikely to kill it completely. A couple of lore of life casters and then cannons don't worry you over much either. That just leaves cloying quagmire and the one army that can take it. For a cool 300 I'm willing to take that risk for the best tar pit in the game every time.

Deathbysoup
24-06-2011, 19:00
I echo the sentiments of the other guys. Drop the knights and add a big block of swords or halberdiers.

I also think 2000pts is too low a points game for a steam tank, they are good but save the 300pts for maybe a warrior priest and some more infantry.

My 2000pts list has 1x40 swordsmen, 1x30 halberdiers and 1x30 greatswords, each with a warrior priest/arch lector in them. This makes them all a threat with hatred and possibly unbreakable.

Ive used knights in about 10-15 games and theyve never done much except distract the opponent for a little bit.

Also I think going for a level 4 wizard would be nice, beasts is good but light after massive amounts of playtesting suits empire perfectly.

Its all up to you though man, as long as you have fun, thats all that counts!

RichBlake
25-06-2011, 02:28
Purple sun, Pit of shades, and Cracks Call have a 50/50 chance at failure to kill the stank as it is typed a chariot and the crew has an init of 3. A scroll or seal of destruction can ruin the attempt quite quickly and then next turn its in combat. Cannons do some damage but are unlikely to kill it completely. A couple of lore of life casters and then cannons don't worry you over much either. That just leaves cloying quagmire and the one army that can take it. For a cool 300 I'm willing to take that risk for the best tar pit in the game every time.

The imitative of the crew is all very well and all, however there is the section that clearly reads "Characteristic Tests" which states the steam tank automatically passes ALL characteristic tests apart from iniative tests, which it automatically fails.

So yeah it is auto kill from purple sun, pit of shades and cracks call. It also auto fails the initiative of Pendulum too meaning it gets hit by a S10 hit from that. Plus there's the new Goblin spell that is basically Purple Sun too so that can kill it. Plus Cloying Quagmire. Plus the Lore of Death Snipe Spells (Spirit Leech, Caress of Lanip, Fate of Bjuna) can work on it too which aren't auto kill but can easily take a few wounds off.

Which armies can access them?

High Elves
Empire
Dark Elves
Lizardmen
Skaven
Chaos Warriors
Chaos Daemons
Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts

Which Can't?

Ogres
Dwarfs
Brettonians

Cannons can "do some damage"? As what I'd hope to be called an experienced Empire player let me just say that after the Stank loses 3 wounds it's basically useless. So assuming you have managed to not make it lose any wounds yourself a cannon has a 50/50 chance of wounding the Steam Tank. If it does wound it on a 3+ your tank is effectively useless.

Why? Because at 7 wounds you can generate 1 Steam Point safely. 2 points on a 1-5, 3 on 1-4, 4 on a 1-3 and 5 on a 1-2. Since you can charge 3 inches per steam point even if you take the 50/50 chance of damaging yourself futher and doing nothing for a turn thats 12", take the 66% pass chance and thats 9", take the 1 in 6 chance of failing and it's 6.

Then let's not forget the cannon. The Cannon is 2 SP to fire but you need to spend 1SP to rotate the tank to be facing your target so you need 3 SP to shoot the cannon.

Combat itself is D3 + a D3 for each steam point you use. Let's assume you generate 3 Steam Points and charge with all of them. Firstly it's a 9" charge and that's shorter then your average infantry charge (4 + average of 7 = 11). Now you get your 4D3 impact hits. Let's say all of them roll a 2, thats 8. At S6 it'll mostly be 2s to wound, lets say 7 wound.

Since you're a chariot with no ranks you need to kill all but 4 infantry models for your opponent not to be steadfast. Plus everything can wound you on a 6 now, so eventually you'll be wounded again either by the attacking models (who auto hit you, so 11 attacks on average will be 1/2 wounds then you get your 2+ save) or yourself (remember you can only generate 1 SP a turn without being risky).

... So yeah, trust me if Steam Tanks were something that were worth taking I would. Hell even if they were "meh" rather then rubbish I would. All I'd do if I saw it against me would be shoot it with my two cannons until it's on about 6 wounds then ignore it. Or I'd cast soul blight on it to reduce it's S and T by one, then cast Caress of Laniph on it to do 2D6 - it's S hits wounding on a 4+ no saves allowed (so an average of two hits, so it'll cause 1 wound on average). THEN I'd shoot it with my two cannons, one of which will wound and will cause anywhere between 1 and 6 wounds. Even 2 wounds will render it useless.