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cagalli
16-06-2011, 04:45
Can you Hand of Gork a warmachine? and if so could you then fire it? I believe you can in fact move the warmachine in this way but I'm doubtful you can shot it afterwards, if anyone has an answer to these questions that would be wonderful.

Blkc57
16-06-2011, 08:31
You can move a warmachine so I can assume you can easily hand of Gork one, as to whether it can shoot afterward, techincally it says nothing about it having "moved' in the traditional sense. It is listed as an augment where models are simply teleported to a new spot, however in the spirit of the rules I would say no it doesn't get to shoot and would count the machine as having moved.

An interesting question would be this, can you Hand of gork something into a building?

Yrrdead
16-06-2011, 08:42
As I don't have the OnG book on me I can't comment specifically on the text of Hand of Gork. That said....

The latest FAQ gives some backing to the claim that "teleport" style movement spells don't count as movement.


Q.If a character tries to leave a unit that is affected by the Net of Amyntok(or another similar spell or ability such as Fulminating Flame Cage) including if he tries to charge out of it is he required to take a Strength test? Also, if the test is failed, will any resulting damage hit only the character? (ref)
A.: Yes to both questions. Though it is worth noting that a test is not required if he leaves without moving, through the Smoke and Mirrors lore attribute for example.

emphasis added is mine.

Mid'ean
16-06-2011, 12:05
Good point Yrrdead, but I don't think the spell is a "teleport" style spell though. It says a giant green hand comes down, picks up the unit and moves it. I guess you could argue that the unit is not moving itself....but it would leave a nasty taste in my mouth trying that arguement....not very Orky either JMO...:shifty:

Malorian
16-06-2011, 12:23
An interesting question would be this, can you Hand of gork something into a building?

Why not. I see no problem moving them in or out of a building.


As to the original question I'm not sure which why to go with this. I mean they did obviously move (their location is different) and personally that's how I would play it, but there is a small part of me that thinks GW might rule it the other way.

T10
16-06-2011, 14:25
Why not. I see no problem moving them in or out of a building.


Here's why: The Hand Of Gork gives very precise instructions as to how the target unit is moved. There is no way you can get the models into or out of a building if you follow these instructions to the letter.

-T10

AMWOOD co
16-06-2011, 17:11
Did anyone else look up why warmachines have this little issue with firing when they move?


This even applies if the model in question was forced to move as the result of a spell or other such compulsory action.

There is nothing ambiguous here.

cagalli
16-06-2011, 17:25
Thank you AMWOOD, that clears it up for me.

Yrrdead
16-06-2011, 17:55
Did anyone else look up why warmachines have this little issue with firing when they move?



There is nothing ambiguous here.

Uhm forced to move and compulsory movement are in referencing movement with no choice. Which would cover wind blast , or other types of movement forced by an opponent. I wouldn't consider a spell that I'm casting on my own units , forced or compulsory.

T10
16-06-2011, 22:21
Uhm forced to move and compulsory movement are in referencing movement with no choice. Which would cover wind blast , or other types of movement forced by an opponent. I wouldn't consider a spell that I'm casting on my own units , forced or compulsory.

"But you see, I WANT my unit to be moved by your wind blast! So it's not forced or compulsory!"

AMWOOD co
17-06-2011, 02:31
Uhm forced to move and compulsory movement are in referencing movement with no choice. Which would cover wind blast , or other types of movement forced by an opponent. I wouldn't consider a spell that I'm casting on my own units , forced or compulsory.

All the better for my case. Go ahead and read the rest of the Move or Fire rule and you'll see that voluntary movement will forfeit the ability to fire with such a model/weapon. I only included the last sentence, after all.

Yrrdead
17-06-2011, 03:26
My point is that this spell wouldn't be considered movement Amwood.

Now obviously you are moving models from point A to point B. And prior to the latest FAQ I was on the side that movement is movement is movement. And honestly I still feel that way.

But the FAQ answer that I quoted gives some precedence to the case that Skitterleap,Shadow Lore Attribute, and Hand of Gork, don't count as movement.

Grimgormx
17-06-2011, 04:01
Its a move or a teleport?

if its a move then use it on fanatics, then move him from point a to point be, hitting most enemy units.

If its a teleport then teleport a spear chuka and shoot enemyes.

Actually I wont play it any of this ways

BEEGfrog
18-06-2011, 20:57
On the other point about buildings, as warmachines can deploy in buildings then they should be able to teleport into buildings but not move into them, so it depends on the wording of the spell.

Re. teleporting: it may not be a move because you don't know if the world stood still and you changed positions or whether it was the world that changed position arounf you.

AMWOOD co
18-06-2011, 23:43
My point is that this spell wouldn't be considered movement Amwood.

Now obviously you are moving models from point A to point B. And prior to the latest FAQ I was on the side that movement is movement is movement. And honestly I still feel that way.

But the FAQ answer that I quoted gives some precedence to the case that Skitterleap,Shadow Lore Attribute, and Hand of Gork, don't count as movement.

The FAQ deals with the case of a character specifically being teleported out of a unit and the unit (which has not been moved) doesn't count as being moved. The character, however, has moved (nothing I can tell says otherwise).

Yrrdead
19-06-2011, 00:46
Hmm well all I can say is that I suggest that you read it again. Especially the last sentence.

It says specifically that the character left the unit, but didn't move.

Which is why I've been posting at all.

AMWOOD co
19-06-2011, 01:48
Hmm well all I can say is that I suggest that you read it again. Especially the last sentence.

It says specifically that the character left the unit, but didn't move.

Which is why I've been posting at all.

Hm... alright. I can admit that Smoke and Mirrors is not movement (in the sense of the game). That seems fine. Whether this extends to Hand of Gork seems... odd and uncertain. It's counter-intuitive. Do we wait for additional FAQ's (which can take forever)?

Yrrdead
19-06-2011, 05:47
Really it is a new situation brought about with the 1.4 FAQ. Until then all movement was movement.

Now it would appear that there is a new classification ; teleport, which doesn't count as movement and would encompass 2 spells and 1 lore attribute. (Hand of Gork, Skitterleap,and Smoke and Mirrors)

Or people can just say that this is a little ridiculous based on a FAQ and stick with all movement is movement. Except for the very specific incident that the FAQ clarifies.