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Shogunate
16-06-2011, 16:11
I wonder if anyone knows (or would care to speculate) about the details of the Eldar justice system. For example, when Prince Yriel was stripped of his military rank; how would that have worked? Would there have been a court marshall-esque gathering of exarchs and farseers, possibly a seer council? I know Biel-tan have a court of the high king, but I'm not sure they act as a legal court.

Jaded Patriot
16-06-2011, 16:31
I wonder if anyone knows (or would care to speculate) about the details of the Eldar justice system. For example, when Prince Yriel was stripped of his military rank; how would that have worked? Would there have been a court marshall-esque gathering of exarchs and farseers, possibly a seer council? I know Biel-tan have a court of the high king, but I'm not sure they act as a legal court.

From what I could tell from Path of the Warrior, the Farseers and Autarchs seem to be 'in control' of the craftworld. My guess is that Craftworld Eldar doing something that warrants a justice system is fairly rare these days, so they are probably brought before 'the council', where a Farseer attempts to divine the best action. It seems like Aspects resolve their own internal disputes with ritual, bloodless combat.

Basically, I doubt there is a formal justice system. I'm willing to bet that it is always a judgement call on the part of the Farseers.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Saim-Hann had some kind of 'tribal council'.

MajorWesJanson
16-06-2011, 16:38
Eldar have no need of a Justice system. Their society has lasted so long that their galaxy spanning empire has evolved past the point of such mundane concepts as justice. But if they did, their basic billy club would be so far advanced that it would be as magic to the primitive Mon Keigh. And yet in the rules their billy club would have 5 special rules and still be worse than the rules for an Imperial stick of wood! We should have rules that reflect our magical stick of wood technology! it's made of Wraithbone!

-signed, Eldar Players.

:rolleyes::D:p

theJ
16-06-2011, 17:30
Eldar have no need of a Justice system. Their society has lasted so long that their galaxy spanning empire has evolved past the point of such mundane concepts as justice. But if they did, their basic billy club would be so far advanced that it would be as magic to the primitive Mon Keigh. And yet in the rules their billy club would have 5 special rules and still be worse than the rules for an Imperial stick of wood! We should have rules that reflect our magical stick of wood technology! it's made of Wraithbone!

-signed, Eldar Players.

:rolleyes::D:p

Signed and sigged, Major.

....or it would be, if it weren't too long to sigg :(

Scalebug
16-06-2011, 17:49
I imagine the whole Eldar society with stricts paths would leave actual crimerate low enough for the councils of Farseers and such to be able to handle the few cases that actually will occur.

What with precience and all, I guess you have calls from the seers of the type "Yrenhil the glassblower, you are really unhappy with your current position, even if you don't know it yet. You are going to have an incident with your supervisor in the near future, and you will bring a shuriken catapult to work next day... To avoid this happening, you are to change path for a while."

In severe cases, happening or forseen, the offender will go into, self-imposed or forced, exile on the path of the outcast to cool down for a century or two.

And then you, as suggested above, will have the all-out court martials for cases like Yriel, presided over by Farseers and Autarchs.

SgtTaters
16-06-2011, 18:15
They set their criminals loose on the galaxy

Seer Council of Iyanden: "Yriel you've been a bad admiral, we are demoting you"
Ex Admiral Yriel: "Yeah **** you Seer Council, I'm going to take my whole fleet with me and terrorize the galaxy from my Flagship"
Seer Council of Iyanden: "...ok..."
and then he became the most famous marauder in the Galaxy.


Farseer: "You've failed to uphold the ideal of the path system. Here is your sniper rifle, camo cloak and shuriken pistol, bye."
Newly minted outcast: "w..what??"

and if the ranger kills enough people to get all that naughtiness out of his system, they might let him back home to tend flowers again.

Inquisitor Engel
16-06-2011, 18:35
They set their criminals loose on the galaxy

Seer Council of Iyanden: "Yriel you've been a bad admiral, we are demoting you"
Ex Admiral Yriel: "Yeah **** you Seer Council, I'm going to take my whole fleet with me and terrorize the galaxy from my Flagship"
Seer Council of Iyanden: "...ok..."
and then he became the most famous marauder in the Galaxy.


Farseer: "You've failed to uphold the ideal of the path system. Here is your sniper rifle, camo cloak and shuriken pistol, bye."
Newly minted outcast: "w..what??"

and if the ranger kills enough people to get all that naughtiness out of his system, they might let him back home to tend flowers again.

This is pretty close to how I see it. All Eldar make mistakes, but they have to atone for them somehow. Some miscreants might be given more menials, or dangerous Paths to follow for a while though...

Arthanor
16-06-2011, 19:52
I doubt paths would be used as a punishment. They are the completely devoted pursuit of an aspect of your psyche, not a bunch of steps to be followed with someone grading you as you go. So from this angle, it is impossible to force an eldar on a path, you can only force them to physically do something, which isn't the same as the mental journey a path is supposed to be.

Also, imagine the torture it would be for a mind as active and powerful as an eldar's (as we're made to believe they are) if they were forced to do something they find boring, or worse dislike doing. Isn't there something in the DE codex about how the worst punishment for a DE is to be sent to the weapon factories where he is bored out of his mind by having to make such simple things? I can't see the eldar forcing a path on someone (even if it were doable), that would be even worst than the worst punishment DE use on one another! They would be forcing another eldar to think a certain way, which is beyond forcing them to physically do something.

Obviously eldar lives are so precious none should be wasted and banishment seems like a sensible answer, allowing the eldar time to think, time to miss the collectivity amd time to explore new ways of being themselves, hopefully leading to their return within the craftworld.

FarseerMatt
16-06-2011, 20:46
My personal view is that violent crime would be "punished" with mandatory transfer to the warrior path (or exile if they refuse) so they can face up to and control their anger - this is, after all, what the warrior path is for. I doubt an Eldar would face any official stigma after mastering that path, but they probably wouldn't get invited to many parties by their former victim and their family.

Arthanor
16-06-2011, 21:01
I'd say that's sensible, a kind of "you need to work out your issues, with us as a warrior, or by yourself" what I was arguing against was using menial tasks (or paths dedicated to them) as a punishment.

I'm not sure about other crimes, like thievery, as those aren't big enough to warrant exile, aren't violent, and in fact I don't know if they could even occur, depending on the eldar's concept of property.

Jaded Patriot
16-06-2011, 21:35
I'm not sure about other crimes, like thievery, as those aren't big enough to warrant exile, aren't violent, and in fact I don't know if they could even occur, depending on the eldar's concept of property.

The simple answer to that is that they don't have property and that the craftworld is so advanced that it provides everything they need without much effort.

The more complicated answer is that some things will have value beyond the mere fact that they exist, such as sentimental items or hand-crafted items (like a sculpture), and I suppose one Eldar could seek redress if another were to damage or steal 'their' item. It would be fairly easy to determine who took it, because the craftworld (the infinity circuit, actually) tracks and remembers everywhere any Eldar goes while on the Craftworld.

enygma7
17-06-2011, 00:30
The 2nd ed eldar codex states that eldar are amoral and don't have a human conception of morality or right and wrong. As such I doubt they even understand criminality or justice in the same way humans do.

This is all pure speculation, but I suspect that rather than a criminal justice system or idea of right and wrong craftworld eldar instead have a code of conduct expressed through their myths and legends - they would try to copy their legendary rolemodels. This code of conduct would be largely built around the necessity of maintaining the strict self disciplin of the eldar paths and the general smooth running of society as a whole. So you would be prohibited from torture, not because it is wrong but because it would release strong and uncontrolled emotion. Likewise, theft of another eldar's property would be prohibited because of the disunity and conflict it would generate.

I imagine infringements of acceptable behaviour would be judged by wise elders - maybe there is a caste for it? Miner offences would probably be dealt with by a pennance, more serious ones by banishment. Those with an anti-social bent would probably chafe under the restrictions of the caste system in any case and leave to become an outcast such as a ranger or pirate.

As for dark eldar, their law is that of the warlord. Those who have the power use it to bend others to their will. The only crime is to offend someone more powerful than you and lose. Interestingly, I seem to remember the dark eldar attempt to emulate role models celebrated in legend (which is probably where I got that idea from), although their role models tend to be the type you wouldn't want your kids to copy! :) I like to think that craftworld eldar aren't any more "moral" than their dark eldar cousins, they don't act in the same way not out of an idea of morality but for fear of the consequences such actions would have for their souls.

Threeshades
17-06-2011, 00:57
I think as for craftworld eldar things work like this: You are an eldar, so you go on a path. You're done following that path you go on the next one. Anything you do beyond that is a crime and is punishable by either exile. Process? Psychic probing probably.

Sources? I have none, it just seems to make sense to me.

chromedog
17-06-2011, 01:06
With Rangers, some craftworlds have them as the equivalent of university students on their "gap" years. A few human (contemporary) societies also do this now with their youth, before they settle down to their 'normal' life within the society.

Alaitoc rangers do it because that craftworld has a more rigid path system than others, and the more 'free-spirited' ones chafe at the confines. Some return, others prefer the 'freedom' (freedom to be lost out among the stars).

Justice for Eldar relies on personal atonement for things, or if that fails, I can certainly see individuals being shunned or exiled.

Inquisitor Engel
17-06-2011, 01:21
My personal view is that violent crime would be "punished" with mandatory transfer to the warrior path (or exile if they refuse) so they can face up to and control their anger - this is, after all, what the warrior path is for. I doubt an Eldar would face any official stigma after mastering that path, but they probably wouldn't get invited to many parties by their former victim and their family.

This is more what I was thinking.

The Path doesn't just focus the mind to distraction to avoid giving sustenance to Slaanesh, it serves to master the emotions and skills associated with it. In that sense, Exarchs are failures of the Path, embracing its singular nature rather than learning what there is to be taught by the Path.

Sort of like the 8th grader, doomed to never to enter High School. (Or perhaps in the case of the Autarch, the college party kid who keeps changing majors!)

BooTMGSG
17-06-2011, 09:50
I would imagine that Eldar rarely need a justice system. With them being a largely Psykic race, their society would run on a rather intense form of peer pressure. When you have thosands of Eldar minds disaproving of your action its time to grab the sniper rifle and cloak and catch the next flight off world.