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Geof79
21-06-2011, 10:47
Im looking at starting a pre-herasy space maarine army with the forge word kits. I was wonedering what legions had access to what tanks. Was it only the space wolves who had Leman russ battle tanks and am I right in thinking space marines used Baneblades?? What other tanks did they have access too.....

baphomael
21-06-2011, 11:23
The marine legions, AFAIK, didn't use babeblades, but rather a superheavy called a fellblade (although, its not stated whether this is a lost alternate pattern or a precursor to the baneblade). Its fairly similar to a baneblade but with a rounded turret a la rogue trader era predator and track treads more akin to the rogue trader era land raider. I also think the sponson weapons might be a little different but I can't find the pic

Castigator
21-06-2011, 11:51
Well, it would in any case make sense to start running with a Baneblade-kit in making a Fellblade.


Here are a few Fellblades on BoLS

Imperial Fist Fellblade (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/12/40k-showcase-imperial-fists-fellblade.html)

Blood Angels Fellblade (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/09/40k-showcase-blood-angel-fellblade.html)

Geof79
21-06-2011, 12:21
Cheers guys, Project fellblade will be starting soon... Im gonna go with the bulb looking top but rebuild the predators in the same look for continuuity....

Lord Damocles
21-06-2011, 13:00
...Mutter (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293786&highlight=fellblade) mutter (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199156&highlight=fellblade) Fellblades? (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294021&highlight=fellblade) ba! (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260005&highlight=fellblade) mutter (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239331&highlight=fellblade) mutter (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199444&highlight=fellblade) mutter... (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195559&highlight=fellblade)

Scalebug
21-06-2011, 16:33
And Leman Russ tanks...? Has it now been confirmed that the Space Wolves used them pre/during the Heresy? (I have yet to read the HH books they are featuered in)

Because, in the previous codex it didn't say from where or why they had them, they just did, and to be honest, it seems more likely that the handful of tanks they have (Well, now so rare they are no longer in the armylist... :p) would have been captured or salvaged during Bucharis invasion of Fenris (M35).

Col. Tartleton
21-06-2011, 23:45
They have them because Russ found their STC template and got it named after himself. So when they were being put into production the wolves got a healthy number of them since again, they're his tank.

Again, Leman Russ.

So odds are they were in production during the crusade and heresy, but it hasn't been stated to my knowledge. But he found it during the crusade on one of his adventures.

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 15:42
Source for that?

Wyrmwood
22-06-2011, 15:55
Source for that?

Well, it is named after the Primarch. As for a source, it probably appears in multiple works; try any of the Imperial Armour books detailing the Leman Russ, Codex: Space Wolves (2nd and 3rd Editions), perhaps Codex: Imperial Guard?

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 16:22
No, it is in none of those works, that is why I'm asking for a source... been playing this game since the early 90's, and have read pretty much everything published, which is why I am asking for a source, if I have missed something.

(as for sharing the name, Gen. Creighton Abrams did not design the M1 Abrams)

Wyrmwood
22-06-2011, 16:28
No, it is in none of those works, that is why I'm asking for a source... been playing this game since the early 90's, and have read pretty much everything published, which is why I am asking for a source, if I have missed something.
I'm certain I've read it somewhere, it may have been in the Epic: Space Marine rulebook; I'll have a look. It could be in Rogue Trader, the Book of the Astronomicon... Actually, I think that might be where it first appeared. At any rate, the Space Wolves could use them in their 3rd Edition Codex at least.


(as for sharing the name, Gen. Creighton Abrams did not design the M1 Abrams)
Leman Russ didn't design the... Leman Russ. The idea being that he simply found the STC for it; besides, this is 40K where nothing is coincidence...

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 16:42
Point is, the tank was named in his honour, he didn't have anything to do with its implementation. Design and invention for us, archeology and superstitious readings of portents for the Adeptus Mechanicus.

And I am not questioning it being in their previous codex, itīs just that it never got any justification to why they had it there. They just did.

The whole "Leman Russ invented it/found the STC" has spun around the web since I don't know when, and I just can't find where it is from, in canon.

Leftenant Gashrog
22-06-2011, 16:45
I've heard people claim that about Russ and the STC for years but never by anyone able to provide a canon source for it. As far as I'm aware its a fan rationalization which sounds credible enough that 90% of people accept - and then disseminate - it without question.

edit: damn, ninja'd

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to claim Leman Russ was originally a tank commander before being retconned into a Space Marine, to which I'll preemptively say: No. Just. No.

Wyrmwood
22-06-2011, 16:47
Point is, the tank was named in his honour, he didn't have anything to do with its implementation. Design and invention for us, archeology and superstitious readings of portents for the Adeptus Mechanicus.
It was named in his honour, yes. No-one is saying that he invented it or worked on implementing it into the Imperial Army; merely that it was his expedition that uncovered the STC.


And I am not questioning it being in their previous codex, itīs just that it never got any justification to why they had it there. They just did.
The justification was that the vehicle was named in his honour, so the Space Wolves used the vehicle to honour his memory.


The whole "Leman Russ invented it/found the STC" has spun around the web since I don't know when, and I just can't find where it is from, in canon.
Again, no-one is saying that he invented it. :) I do agree though, I'm having trouble uncovering the source of it being his discovery.

Hengest
22-06-2011, 17:06
A general source for preheresy tanks are the Imperial Armour books. IA2 talks about variants of the predator used back in the dark age of technology. Basically when the old style Rhinos and Predator models were transformed into the current plastic kits we can buy they went from old Mark3C variants to the new Mark4 version. Rhinos went from the Mark1b to Mark2C. It was a good way of explaining the difference in designs that could be seen in people armies. The old Imperial Army tanks are covered in siege of Vraks books IA5 to 7

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 17:08
Again, no-one is saying that he invented it. I do agree though, I'm having trouble uncovering the source of it being his discovery.

Invented/discovered is interchangable when it comes up, the discovered part used by people better versed in 40K themes, but in any case, no-one can produce a source for it.

If I were to make a guess where the tank first appeared, it would be in "Armies of the Imperium", the first army list expansion box for 2nd ed* Space Marine. Don't have that book anymore, although I'm fairly sure I have already read the passage on Leman Russ Tanks there, and it wasn't anything about the Primarch being involved in its discovery there. Could be wrong though, anyone with the book at hand?


* Depending on how you count, but the version with marines, orks and Eldar in the basic starter box, released 1991.

Wyrmwood
22-06-2011, 17:12
Depending on how you count, but the version with marines, orks and Eldar in the basic starter box, released 1991.

Ah, I have the set from 1989!

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 17:38
Yeah, the Horus Heresy setting. Never played that, got in with the 1991 edition. Have read the rules though.

And a search at the White Dwarf Index reaveals that the Leman Russ first appeared in 1990, in White Dwarf #123, so it did have rules during the 1st edition.

So, anyone with that issue of WD?

Leftenant Gashrog
22-06-2011, 18:36
I do have that issue somewhere (bought for that article I believe) but if memory serves it was just a side-on pic and the statline for each vehicle, no fluff.

Scalebug
22-06-2011, 19:29
Got confirmation that it only was stats and rules in that White Dwarf, so "Armies of the Imperium" (1991) is probably the first occurrence of fluff for the Leman Russ MBT then.

Luko
23-06-2011, 12:27
If memory serves there is a brief mention of them in battle for the fang which is set 1000 years after the heresey....

Luko