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babyberg31
24-06-2011, 05:25
Hi there fellow chaos worshipper. I'm contacting you about a serious subject that had come to me in the last months...

I really need help against two specific race in Warhammer. High elf and dark elf are causing me some trouble and it seems that I cannot take a breath in any fight.

This all strike-first army is getting on my nerve as everything seems to be more than good. Who cares if you have T3 and 5+ armour save, you'll kill everything in front of you before anyone strike! Not only are you welding and axe bigger that your whole torso, but you are welding it as fast as you can say: ''Elf are sissy!!''

I can't seem to have a good and fair fight against a high elf player and even a starter player seems to be intimidating me, even thought I'm a veteran one. It might be because I don't know this army well enough, because I don't know their weakness or something... But I know their all T3, they die against my heavy weapon marauder mass and everything... But it seem I can't get over the fact that when I finally get to use my regiment of chaos warriors, they get shred to bits even before they can replicate by sissy...

Its a call from a chaos player to another... what are you tactics, your ideas and your concern when you face and army like this?

Personally, I run a mono-god Slaanesh army. all my unit are in multiple of 6 (sacred number of Slaanesh). It goes like this:

Sorcerer Lvl4 (, slaanesh, charmed shield, Third eye, phylactery, power familiar, favour)
BSB (Slaanesh, whip of subversion, dawnstone, barded steed)*

40 chaos marauder (slaanesh, heavy weapon, full cmd) (BSB here)
42 chaos marauder (slaanesh, heavy weapon, full cmd)
17 chaos warriors (slaanesh, halberd, shiel, full cmd, banner of rage) (sorcerer here)
3 x 5 chaos hounds
6 chaos knights (, music, ethernal flame)
Warshrine (slaanesh)
hellcannon
6 chaos ogre (banner, music)

*I know that my BSB being on a horse tends to get shot to bit since I cannot get a look out sir roll... I'm thinking about putting him on foot...

Fajita!
24-06-2011, 07:19
Try switching to a lore other than slanash. Overall it lackluster when compared to the other options. Maybe fire for lots of s4 hits against t3 bodies?

Edit: Whoops, didn't see the mono god thing.

Demrak
24-06-2011, 07:26
I'm right there with you my chaos brother.. even though you are sissy slaaneshi types..

I typically run a Khorn\Tzeetch band of brothers.. not massivly different to what you have.. Marauders with Mark of Khorn.. frenzy handy as immune to psycology.. for all the hits they take.. armed with GW .. band of chosen .. trolls with Throgg .. warshrine .. Tzeetch lord types... mix and match from time to time..

Play varied ideas but the Swordsmen of Hoeth or Phoenix guard always do well..

I'm plagued by how on earth to deal with Swordsmen..

Keep going back to idea of a Chosen Death star.. Champion with Favour of gods (as allows a mod on Eye of Gods roll) .. Give them Armour piercing banner.. Tzeetch mark , HW & shield (the elves are going to slam me.. so maximise defence.. 5+/5+ v SoH or 5+/3+ if get lucky on EoG roll ) .. armour piercing and Strengh 4 will ignore his armour.. so should boost kills.. have hero with MR item or ability to boost spell defence ..

Needs flanks protected .. perhaps by marauder nutters.. or a troll & Throgg option..

Spells can be an option.. but against High Elves I've found it difficult to get them through.. and heaven help me if he plays Teclis.. !!

Looking forward to any insight as well..

EnternalVoid
24-06-2011, 08:33
Well I am not a chaos follower but I do play elves. And as such I can tell you what causes me problems.

First off, in a fair fight chaos should win. It is like asking Arnold to take on the Predator in a boxing match. As the elf, it is my goal not to give you a fair fight in any way, shape, or form. Most often for me this is done with magic but I can also pull it off with redirection and forcing mismatches. The only unit that I have that can strait out fight chaos warriors is swordmasters and if you have enough chaos warriors you can at least make me suffer for it.

Thing is, Elves are often a glass cannon. If properly set up, they can blow a hole through things. But if they fail in this, they can be shattered.

I fear 50 man blocks of marauders with great weapons with my high elves. Why? because I lack shooting tools like mortars and flame templates *unless I have a dragon but that only gives me one shot*. So to deal with units like that I need to wear them down somehow. Often the answer is magic. If I can cut that unit in half I can then break it with one of my units with out suffering heavy loses on my side. Problem is if I don't, they will wear down any of my units and are fairly cheap.

Hellcannons, I hate those things. My eagles and/or skirmishers and fast cav can't beat it. And S5 templates hurt elf infantry blocks. Your best bet is to aim at the key problem and let it rip each turn. Against High Elves I would target Swordmasters, followed by Spearmen. Things like Phoenix Guard tend to be to survivable, same with White Lions in this case. And Spearmen tend to be in large and square enough blocks that a direct hit will just EAT a chunk of the unit. This thing worries me mostly in the fact that each hit it does, takes away my ability to beat your units. A 35-40 spearmen unit can, with magic support, beat chaos warriors eventually. Losing 17 spearmen to one shot makes it so I might not have the bodies to last two rounds of combat with your units. I would not target Phoenix Guard, While it can hurt, I can often weather that to some extent.

Consider a larger unit of chaos warriors. I like small 15-17 man units when I look at them across the board. It means if I put my 30 man phoenix guard unit or my 16 man Swordmaster unit against them I can win. 25 Chaos warriors I start to worry. At that point I have to consider how to fight them unfairly.

I would drop the Chaos Ogres. I always liked having monstrous infantry when I could have it, but with an army like Chaos warriors it is less needed. In a unit of only 6 you run into the same problem as the 15-17 man units of chaos warriors, not enough bodies to soak up my attacks and hope to win attrition. They should supply enough points for you to increase the size of your other units.

Fire would suit your purpose better then Slaanesh. It lacks alot of spells to help you. the Third Eye might solve this a bit, but overall fire would help more. That said you are mono-Slaanesh so I can understand. What I would consider is dropping the power familar for a Spell Familar. At the very least then you are all but insured the 6th spell for Slaanesh, one that elves do not like one bit. That is the spell you target on Phoenix Guard or their other anvil unit to get around ward saves or numbers. I would also pick up the Stream of Corruption demonic gift. Just think of an elf players face when you march up about an inch or two from his big unit of troops, and you breath the template across his unit. I once had a dark elf Hydra hit a unit of swordmasters at a perfect angle, killed 14 out of 18 guys. Sure the Stream of Corruption is not as strong, but against T3 and 5+ armor, that template really hurts.

babyberg31
24-06-2011, 15:18
Great advice from many players, thanks a lot.

And now, about my list... It's been hard to left my ogres. In the last 5-6 match, they were always a MVP. Seriously, I don't know if it's because I'm lucky or anything, but 18 attacks at St6 + 3 stomp, fear and 4+ save is great, like truly great. Having trouble with some cavalry... use ogre, having problem with a stegadon...use ogre, having problem with high armor troops...use ogre. With such a small front, their is little thing that can have such power... I find it pretty hard to let them down in fact...

And for the lore of Slaanesh... I might consider to switch it. I'm curious about fire lore but everybody is saying it's a ''low tier'' domain. I should try it sometime, but I feel it will lack something. Switching for a spell familiar might be a good idea to.

I've been thinking about a switch between my chaos knights and two chariots of slaanesh. Chaos knights = 290 pts, 2 chaos chariots are 50 points less. Ramming the two in one unit might cause major havoc and they will be a fire magnet to (like knights). They will make 2D6+2 ST5 impact hit before anything and pack quite a punch if they survive. 8 attacks St5 cc5 +4 attack St4 cc3 for the two might be great.

I might use a bigger unit of warriors if chaos, but hell, getting up to 24 man unit is a really big point sink...

EnternalVoid
25-06-2011, 06:14
Thing about fire is, to many it is a low tier lore. But not everyone is High Elves or Empire and have access to the entire set of lores. Also each lore has things they are good at. For alot of other armies it is playing to a strength or making up for a weakness. For alot of those armies those weaknesses are not being able to win combats in the right regard.

Warriors of Chaos have powerful shooting, but only in a single model. The Hellcannon. That thing is a monster, rule wise and intimidation wise. But it is not a unit of dark elves with repeater crossbows, a line of cheap handgunners, or any similar option. It is not even a Organ gun. It is just the nastiest Stone Thrower like option out there. But you also pay for it. Meaning you don't have good ways to get rid of that unit of fast Cav or a Great Eagle generally. I like the thought of having the Roar Demonic Gift just to have something to pick off these things. Fire has some easy options for this, thus why many chaos players at least consider it. A fireball spell can do quite a bit of damage to these guys as they try to ruin your day. And it is not like you have alot of other options for range.

Another thing to think about for fire, Flaming Sword of Ruin. Nasty spell for them. First it means any unit you have has a decent chance of carving a slice out of a Abomination or Hydra. also with the current ruling on the +1 to wound, it means Chaos Warriors with Halberds and Maruaders with GWs Auto wound T3 *if there are no other modifiers to strength or such*. Get 8 hits on that unit of swordmasters, 8 wounds with no need to roll. Not bad against things like Sphinxes either, as it means you wound on a 5+.

The chariots are not a bad idea, they actually have several uses. One thing you can use them for is to assassinate lv2 mages and the like. Charge a chariot into the unit they are hiding in, do your impact hits, then direct your Chaos Warriors 4 attacks at the mage. If they live, attack them with the steeds to try and finish them. Between 4 WS5, S5 swings, and 2 WS3 S4 swings, you should be able to kill most lv2 mages and maybe even hurt lord level ones.

As for the Warriors of Chaos, yes a larger unit is a big point sink. But if they can not kill the unit it is also good denial. I can tell you right now what I try to do to those big units, slow them down. My Great Eagles have slowed many of Chosen to a crawl using redirection and such. Stuff like the Roar and fire magic is ideal to try and get rid of these units as they attempt to prevent your unit from moving foward.

babyberg31
27-06-2011, 15:26
@EnternalVoid

Thanks a lot. Those tricks will be pretty useful in fact. I never thought about the auto-wounding in fact! But it's damn true. A useful trick to use! And wounding the big beasties on a 5+ is priceless in fact!

Hope I could have more comments/ideas from different people!

BrotherNefarius
27-06-2011, 18:37
I play mostly vs HE, so i think i can give you a few pointers... Even vs Teclis armies...

The most effective lores vs HE are Slaanesh and Tzeentch... Sure there are good spells in each, but those you want is Ecstatic Seizures (insane vs Phoenix guards, basically, you wipe half his squad, and 50% chance to kill each char attached to it!) and Treason of Tzeentch (The unit attacks himself, 1 attack per model, good vs HE hammers (SM and WL), more or less kills half the unit too)

The chosen star tactic is also good vs HE, get the stubborn + wardsave, then go head to head with anything the rest of your army can't handle.

Character wise, Wulfrik works wonderfully in hunting the mages, since they can't refuse the challenge.

Gaulgrauch, if you play high enough games, is insane. The breath of change (toughness or die, no saves) makes quick work on pheonix guards (use as a well positioned shooting weapon, not melee) and he has access to the lore of tzeentch for treason... best of both world.

Also, if you can, try to take out the banner that gives +d3 magic dice ASAP, it really helps.

EnternalVoid
27-06-2011, 22:54
Well one more thing about killing Big Beasties with the Flaming Sword spell. Sure again the Sphinx it wounds on a 5+, but for warriors with halberds and Marauders with GW it means you are wounding your average beast on a 3+ *as most of them have T5* and even the T6 ones you are wounding on a 4+.

So that Abomination you charged with your unit of warriors. Thanks to halberds and Flaming Sword, you are wounding on a 3+ and no regen. If they have the banner of rage they are likely to kill an Abomination or Hydra before it can even attack. Marauders would get pummeled a bit before they attacked, but again they are wounding on a 3+ so they should do some damage, just have to have enough ranks to absorb some damage.

Also if you take the Lore of Fire you can consider dropping the knights with the banner of Eternal Flame, and using those points to get a second unit fo chaos warriors *with the banner of eternal flame*. That way at the very least you can have your opponent guessing each game which one has the banner of rage and which one has EF at the beginning of the game when setting up *the moment something comes within 16" and you have to test to restrain frenzy will likely be a good indication at that point which one has it*.

BrotherNefarius has some good points. I had not pointed out any Tzeentch ideas due to you saying you were going mono-Slaanesh. But he is right about the 6th spell of Slaanesh *thus why I like having the ability to take 5 spells, almost guarentees you that one spell you want*.

GodlessM
27-06-2011, 23:08
This thread surprises me. I've found that the only thing High Elves threaten my Chaos with are White Lion hordes, and Dark Elves can only threaten us by casting Mindrazor on big units. Other than that I find both easy to stomp.

As for this whole business of tailoring barbaric lores to kill the elves, there's no need. Take your regular lore of Shadow to help you win fights, and take the Third Eye just in case you need to steal his Life spells for a bit of Flesh to Stone or Dwellers.

m1acca1551
28-06-2011, 04:36
DE/HE are one hit wonders, they hit hard and fast, beef your units up so you can take the initial hit and they deal out your own hurt.

I play HE and will never fight you on your own terms... i can't afford to, the games i win are the ones were people allow me freedom of movement and the ability to pick my fights. The ones i've lost are when people take that away from and force me to engage in a war of attrition.

And don't try go pound for pound in the magic phase, HE/DE will usually outcast any race, negate it so i can't buff my units and your half way home.

Evil Hypnotist
28-06-2011, 08:53
I play HE a lot and EternalVoid is right, in a straight-up fight Chaos should be winning combats easily. However, the HE are tricksy and you need to cancel out their most competative elements:

1) Swordmasters - bane of my life and the only unit who can rip apart anything I field, the ability to always strike first, re-roll hits and then wound warriors on 3+ with -2 to armour save is deadly. The only way I have managed to deal with them is to either swamp them with a marauder horde or target every spell and hellcannon shot at them, like BrotherNefarius said, the spells that make Swordmasters attack themselves are particulary effective. Of course you can always feed them low cost units to keep them busy, whilst you mop up the rest of them, just make sure they won't over-run into anything you value!

2) Heros with great weapons - in the same vein as the Swordmasters, expect the challenges you have to make due to Eye of the Gods to be over quite quickly. Have a champion in the unit with you to feed them and hopefully break the elves in the first round of combat. Another option is to give your Hero the Armour of Morrisleb for a 4+ ward save against the great weapon (3+ if they have mark of Tzeentch) for 35/45 points.

3) Bolt Throwers - I am lucky that my regular HE opponent misses the trick with these and normally only takes one. If it was me I would be taking as many as my rare choices allow. 6 str. 4 bolts a turn each with -3 armour save can make a mess of warriors and marauders alike. There is protection; Blasted Standard, Ironcurse Icon, mark of nurgle, or prevention; I normally find Marauder Horsemen or warhounds don't usually manage to survive long enough to take them out so a hero on a disc/steed of slaanesh/flying monster with Golden Eye or some protection like I have mentioned can do the business. But like I said I don't have a lot of experience against massed bolt throwers so maybe someone else can elaborate.

Hope this helps anyway.

babyberg31
28-06-2011, 17:10
Lots of knowledge *evil smile*

These are really valuable since I don't play often against High Elf army. Having experience against a army is quite useful when facing them. Personally, since I've played most of my game against Dwarf and Lizardmen, I've learned to bypass their strength and use their weakness.

One thing you people have been teaching me is that I must choose my fight. I'm not really use to that with chaos warriors. I mean, pitting them against mainly anything will me more than okay. Especially when you have 24 of them! So I'll try to avoid those swordmaster, downing them with spell and shooting.

Target prioritizing is hard to choose to. When I see a 40 man strong horde of spearmen, I just cannot resist to squash them with a helcannon shot. I mean, it's 40 attacks straight in the face... Well, I'll try to make justice to chaos warrior in future game.

One thing I find ''hard'' with chaos warrior or biased compared to other army is that you cannot really optimize your army without being un-fluff. Getting my Slaanesh army or a multi-god chaos army is pretty different:
Multi-god army mean Tzeentch hammer warrior, Khorne marauder, Khorne Ogre, Nurgle knights, Slaanesh horseman... All theses options seems rather chaotic (no pun intended) if judged by a fluff-fan.

But if you want to mix Chrace and SM, great eagle, Lothern sea guard, no problem... A different view... I think I'm being a bit to hard on fluff because having all my unit in multiple of 6 and a total of 12 different units is kind of restricting. I've dropped my ''12 different units army'' but I kept my multiple of 6 units.

EnternalVoid
29-06-2011, 04:35
One thing I find ''hard'' with chaos warrior or biased compared to other army is that you cannot really optimize your army without being un-fluff. Getting my Slaanesh army or a multi-god chaos army is pretty different:
Multi-god army mean Tzeentch hammer warrior, Khorne marauder, Khorne Ogre, Nurgle knights, Slaanesh horseman... All theses options seems rather chaotic (no pun intended) if judged by a fluff-fan.

And that is why I never fault chaos player for mixing and matching their stuff. Might tease them a little, but I don't blame them.

babyberg31
30-06-2011, 15:49
Also with the current ruling on the +1 to wound, it means Chaos Warriors with Halberds and Maruaders with GWs Auto wound T3 *if there are no other modifiers to strength or such*. Get 8 hits on that unit of swordmasters, 8 wounds with no need to roll.

Just to be sure... where do you found this? I'm not asking it because I don't believe it, but because I want to prove it when somebody ask me about it.

(edit)
I've take a look in the errata and FAQ book, and I thought I found something:

Q: Does a To Wound roll of a 1 always fail to Wound? (p42, 51)
A: No. Though it is very rare for a model to be able to Wound
on a 1+.

Is this what you meant?

Pendragon
30-06-2011, 17:22
A sneaky way of getting access to other lores in mono-god armies is the book of secrets. Sure, you're only a level 1 wizard, but since you are a wizard, you can also pick up a spell familiar. Works well with an exalted hero, who will usually do ok even with only mundane combat equipment, but can even be given to an chosen champion!

Bound spell items like the Ruby Ring of Ruin, Rod of Torment and Blasted Standard can help overcome a lack of shooting attacks, but are expensive and takes power dice away from your sorcerers.

Von Wibble
30-06-2011, 18:20
I face Chaos with HE and DE quite often.

The things I hate facing are

Hellcannons - reasons already given in posts above.

Infernal Puppet - Chaos need to own the magic phase as much as they can against elves because it is their only real form of shooting, and elves hate being shot. A chaos army facing elves at 2250 points should imo go for a L4 and L2 minimum.

Chariots. Try ASFing those impact hits.

Citadel97501
30-06-2011, 19:37
I keep hearing people insult my beautiful Sorcerers of Slaanesh, and frankly I am tired of it. The lore is great, easy to cast and you only need 2 wizards to guarantee the spells you want. Here are some good tricks to use against DE, HE, and also helps against Skaven.

Wizards
Level 4, MoS, 4+ Ward Save, Charmed Shield, Blood of Tzeentch, Third Eye of Tzeentch (Damn nice to borrow DE Spells, or Flames of the Phoenix), other gear to taste.

Level 2, MOS, 5+ Ward Save, Spell Familiar
-Roll for his spells first this gives you a better odds of getting Ecstatic Seizures on the Lord.

Exalted Hero, Sword of Swift Slaying, Book of Secrets, Shield.
-Great to accept challenges with since you either cancel ASF by having it, or kill their character first.

Results
You have all of the Slaanesh spells, +2 power dice giving you a higher generation average than HE's, and 3 Channel attempts.

Spells
Titillating Delusions: This spell is useful for giving you flank charges, and preventing his units from shooting, another option is to use it to alter the facing of a unit so it can't see your units to cast magic at it. I have done this to Teclis twice, :)

Ecstatic Seizures: This is the best spell available for Chaos to kill Phoenix Guard. 11+ to cast, and no saves works very well to get around their ward saves.

Hell Shriek: This spell works great on a lot of enemies and has won me a game against Skaven (HPA is not Immune to Psychology)

BrotherNefarius
30-06-2011, 19:48
Results
You have all of the Slaanesh spells, +2 power dice giving you a higher generation average than HE's, and 3 Channel attempts.

Make that 1 power dice, Book of Secrets has been FAQed to not giving the free power dice. And he doesn't allow channelling either.

GreySeerZ
30-06-2011, 20:02
Hi there fellow chaos worshipper. I'm contacting you about a serious subject that had come to me in the last months...

I really need help against two specific race in Warhammer. High elf and dark elf are causing me some trouble and it seems that I cannot take a breath in any fight.

This all strike-first army is getting on my nerve as everything seems to be more than good. Who cares if you have T3 and 5+ armour save, you'll kill everything in front of you before anyone strike! Not only are you welding and axe bigger that your whole torso, but you are welding it as fast as you can say: ''Elf are sissy!!''

I can't seem to have a good and fair fight against a high elf player and even a starter player seems to be intimidating me, even thought I'm a veteran one. It might be because I don't know this army well enough, because I don't know their weakness or something... But I know their all T3, they die against my heavy weapon marauder mass and everything... But it seem I can't get over the fact that when I finally get to use my regiment of chaos warriors, they get shred to bits even before they can replicate by sissy...

Its a call from a chaos player to another... what are you tactics, your ideas and your concern when you face and army like this?

Personally, I run a mono-god Slaanesh army. all my unit are in multiple of 6 (sacred number of Slaanesh). It goes like this:

Sorcerer Lvl4 (, slaanesh, charmed shield, Third eye, phylactery, power familiar, favour)
BSB (Slaanesh, whip of subversion, dawnstone, barded steed)*

40 chaos marauder (slaanesh, heavy weapon, full cmd) (BSB here)
42 chaos marauder (slaanesh, heavy weapon, full cmd)
17 chaos warriors (slaanesh, halberd, shiel, full cmd, banner of rage) (sorcerer here)
3 x 5 chaos hounds
6 chaos knights (, music, ethernal flame)
Warshrine (slaanesh)
hellcannon
6 chaos ogre (banner, music)

*I know that my BSB being on a horse tends to get shot to bit since I cannot get a look out sir roll... I'm thinking about putting him on foot...

Take Tzeentch/Khorne and for the love of god cut down on marauders. I hate to say it, but they were an amazing unit when 8th first came out and no one knew how to handle them, but opponents have learned to annihilate one at a time and move on. They are still a great unit, but they just aren't what they used to be.

Chaos ogres aren't that great either, and knights are OK, would be better with a Tzeentch ward save, or banner for 4++ vs shooting.

As for Slaanesh magic, it is awesome against certain opponents, but not an all comers list. Especially elves who have high leadership, high initiative, and ways to negate magic completely. I'd focus more on anti-casting, infernal puppet is a must, and low level spells from shadows/death, which are easy to get off and can swing combats in your favor.

babyberg31
30-06-2011, 20:06
Ecstatic Seizures: This is the best spell available for Chaos to kill Phoenix Guard. 11+ to cast, and no saves works very well to get around their ward saves.


It's a 12+ spell, not a 11+.

GreySeerZ
30-06-2011, 20:10
Wizards
Level 4, MoS, 4+ Ward Save, Charmed Shield, Blood of Tzeentch, Third Eye of Tzeentch (Damn nice to borrow DE Spells, or Flames of the Phoenix), other gear to taste.

I personally hardly ever put Third Eye on my level 4, as it forces you to use your opponents lore for that turn. Sure you may want to borrow 1/2 spells, but why take a LvL 4 to get 4 Slaanesh spells if your using your opponents lore anyway. In this case a disc riding Tzeentch caster would work just as well, and be more mobile and survivable.

The real issue with taking slaanesh instead of tzeentch is you lose another way of dealing with regen (FF), heavy magic (pandemonium) and monsters (Gateway) - all of which cause real problems to WoC. Even more ridiculous right now is treason (against horde it is even more ridiculous). I have had sword masters literally cut their unit in half because of this spell. FF is great as a simple damage spell, pandemonium + puppet is overpowerdly awesome, and gateway is situational and risky. Even promoting a rank and file to exalted is great, as getting extra wounds means winning combats.

Pendragon
30-06-2011, 20:26
Take Tzeentch/Khorne

If you play mono-Slaanesh, this really isn't an option. Like the OP, I play mono-slaanesh as well and get somewhat tired of getting the answer "switch to khorne/tzeentch" when asking for advice.


As for Slaanesh magic, it is awesome against certain opponents, but not an all comers list. Especially elves who have high leadership, high initiative, and ways to negate magic completely. I'd focus more on anti-casting, infernal puppet is a must, and low level spells from shadows/death, which are easy to get off and can swing combats in your favor.

It's even worse if you happen to play one of the undead armies, as 3 out 6 spell will simply do nothing at all and 2 will have reduced effectiveness and/or versatility. :mad:

babyberg31
30-06-2011, 21:22
Take Tzeentch/Khorne and for the love of god cut down on marauders.

Chaos ogres aren't that great either, and knights are OK, would be better with a Tzeentch ward save, or banner for 4++ vs shooting.



So what I should take according to you. Having those 80 marauder really scram some of my opponents plans. Right, they are going to shoot them to bit, trying to reduce their number, but great, it leaves my chaos warriors untouched.

Those ogre are not the greatest thing either, but you should not neglect 18 st6 attacks with 4+ armour. Right, it's CC3 and everything, but I found them a good hammer unit. Hard to find something that useful for such a small unit (front covering) and that movement. I will not use Forsaken, (What, those guys still exist??!!??) and dragon ogres are far to costly and their not immune to panic test...

Citadel97501
01-07-2011, 03:52
Make that 1 power dice, Book of Secrets has been FAQed to not giving the free power dice. And he doesn't allow channelling either.

Arg, I missed that I thought it was just changing the other stuff since it said change the 2nd paragraph, but I guess the 2nd paragraph is all the rules why the first was in italics and is fluff?

EnternalVoid
01-07-2011, 05:49
(edit)
I've take a look in the errata and FAQ book, and I thought I found something:

Q: Does a To Wound roll of a 1 always fail to Wound? (p42, 51)
A: No. Though it is very rare for a model to be able to Wound
on a 1+.

Is this what you meant?

Yes. Basically in stuff like armor and to hit, it says that a roll of 1, regardless of bonuses, fails. It does not say that for the To Wound rolls *Trust me I spent alot of time looking for it*. So if you need a 2+ to wound, and you get a +1, you have a 1+ to wound. If you need a 6+ to wound something *like T8* it is +1 thus a 5+ to wound.

GreySeerZ
01-07-2011, 13:38
So what I should take according to you. Having those 80 marauder really scram some of my opponents plans. Right, they are going to shoot them to bit, trying to reduce their number, but great, it leaves my chaos warriors untouched.

Those ogre are not the greatest thing either, but you should not neglect 18 st6 attacks with 4+ armour. Right, it's CC3 and everything, but I found them a good hammer unit. Hard to find something that useful for such a small unit (front covering) and that movement. I will not use Forsaken, (What, those guys still exist??!!??) and dragon ogres are far to costly and their not immune to panic test...

Yea, I dunno, I guess I just play really competitive opponents with better hordes. My marauders are either getting held up by bloodletters, skaven slaves or ghouls/zombies. Or they are being templated to death. A lot of units can just carve through them as well. I mean they are worth their points for sure, but I'd only ever take them with MoK and great weapons for st 5, otherwise your basically taking a more expensive anvil with no good saves.

As for mono-slaanesh, it is an awesome idea, as I love Slaanesh (the girl half, not the guy ;)), but its just not AS competitive as the other marks, and that is something you might just have to accept. You could build the best Slaanesh list ever, and Khorne/Tzeentch armies will just perform better. Thats not saying you won't win games, but scaled together, thats just how they fall. Like others have said, Slaanesh magic is almost useless vs Daemons, VC or TK. The several spells that are still effective should be the ones a smart opponent waits to dispel.

As for ogres, I just find that trolls perform better. Regeneration + roll on eye of the gods table is just too good to pass up for almost the same amount of points. Sure they are stupid, but shouldn't stray all that far from your general/bsb anyway. Ofcourse, trolls aren't very Slaaneshy (I wouldn't consider ogres all that Slaaneshy either). Another option you may consider is a Slaanesh giant, which is honestly the only way to competitively run a giant in my opinion. He would be sure to soak extra damage, and is exciting to play with. Add to that the fact that you could make a slaanesh giant look pretty cool with some keeper of secrets bits.

Throwing in an additional love gun (hellcannon) wouldn't hurt either. Run them side by side alternating moving forward and firing, and its a pretty good combo. Not to mention hellcannons eat and tie up elves for breakfast!

babyberg31
01-07-2011, 19:58
Yeah, I'll look over my list again. I've switched my 6 ogre pack for another units of chaos warriors. I've taken 17 of them and it work really great!

I love the chariot as well. Great punch and great power. I've tried the fire domain and it was pretty good to! Lot of fun and having another way to down target is great!