PDA

View Full Version : Vampire Paradox



Khorneguy
11-07-2011, 10:35
Reading the rules in the VC Army book very carefulyl, i have noticed something.

1. All vampires are wizards, even if only lv1. I know that's obvious but the next bit isn't...

2. They all have the option to take mundane (through powers) and magical armour...

3. Yet there is no rule anywhere that i can find stating that they can still cast spells whilst in armour. This means if you actually want to protect your general and his cronies, you have to give up the ability to raise more dead.

Is this right? If so, why havn't people noticed before?

Mr_Rose
11-07-2011, 10:40
Because there is no rule "you may not cast spells in armour" that would require an additional special rule to negate. In fact there hasn't been for a couple of editions now.


P.S. Your #1 statement is not true. Vharghulfs for instance, and Blood Knights too, are Vampires but not Wizards. You have to be a Vampire and also a Character to be a wizard, wear magic armour, and take bloodline powers.

Khorneguy
11-07-2011, 10:48
Read the description of wizards under the magic section, it states it quite clearly.

It's the same reason empire have a piece of magic amrour that specifically states you can cast spells while wearing it

warplock
11-07-2011, 11:21
I don't have books with me so can't check rules/wording, but whatever the problem, if any, it would also affect Chaos Sorcerors, who can wear armour. However off the top of my head I think it says in the BRB that Chaos Sorcerors are unaffected. Don't think it mentions Vampires though.

Khorneguy
11-07-2011, 11:26
the rulebook specifically excepts chaos sorcerors, as they do have their own special rules governing the wearing of armour.

I can't find a single source that says the same applys for vampires

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2011, 11:26
p500 is very clear - read the second paragraph - all wizards that can take mundane armour can cast spells while wearing armour of any kind (magical or otherwise).

Vampires can take mundane armour, vis. they can cast spells in armour

On an aside the Empire item ironically was wrongly worded when the book was released, but is now correctly worded - last edition there was no ban on casting spells (as in every other edition), just a ban on taking magic armour if you couldn't take mundane stuff - hence lost of people's confusion.

Harvey
11-07-2011, 11:42
Page 500 in the 8th edition rulebook, the beginning of the Magic Items chapter, the section called "Magical Interference".

In summary, wizards cannot choose to take magic armour unless they have the option for mundane armour. They need to have normal armour as part of the standard loadout or an option to take it. It also says the "chief" (but not only) example of this rule is chaos sorcerers.

In the current Vampire Counts army book on page 85 it says that all vampires can be given magic armour, which replaces any mundane armour given by Avatar of Death or Dread Knight.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Tregar
11-07-2011, 15:08
Indeed, you can have a Vampire casting while wearing armour. But where's the rule that says he can still cast spells on a Tuesday, that's what I want to know?!

Davo
11-07-2011, 18:57
Indeed, you can have a Vampire casting while wearing armour. But where's the rule that says he can still cast spells on a Tuesday, that's what I want to know?!



On a similar subject can a vampire choose magic armour if he does not have one of the martial powers that gives him regular armour? The sentence alluding to this in the army book appears somewhat ambiguous to me.

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2011, 19:10
On a similar subject can a vampire choose magic armour if he does not have one of the martial powers that gives him regular armour? The sentence alluding to this in the army book appears somewhat ambiguous to me.
All he needs is the option to take mundane armour (which he does). You are quite allowed not to choose that option and take magic armour instead!

artisturn
12-07-2011, 03:56
I would also like to add ,

That Nightshroud is the exception for necromancers when it comes to armor.

page 85 in the VC army book

Nightshroud
(Necromancers may also wear the Nightshroud)

Khorneguy
12-07-2011, 18:25
Ok having thought about it and had a (heated) discussion with my local GW manager about it i think it works as following

- Vampires and Vampire Lords are wizards, who, not having the option in their army list to take armour cannot ordinarily take magic armour, as stated in the brb. HOWEVER, if they take the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death power, then they then gain the option of buying mundane armour, therefore granting them access to magic armour

theunwantedbeing
12-07-2011, 18:35
Ok having thought about it and had a (heated) discussion with my local GW manager about it i think it works as following

- Vampires and Vampire Lords are wizards, who, not having the option in their army list to take armour cannot ordinarily take magic armour, as stated in the brb. HOWEVER, if they take the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death power, then they then gain the option of buying mundane armour, therefore granting them access to magic armour

They have access to it, so can take magical armour.
Also the vampire book above the magical armour section says they can take it.

You simply need to be allowed normal armour, to take magical armour as a mage.

Khorneguy
12-07-2011, 18:49
but the only way vampires are allowed mundane armour is by buying the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death powers

Mid'ean
12-07-2011, 18:54
but the only way vampires are allowed mundane armour is by buying the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death powers

You don't have to buy heavy armor to buy magical armor. You just need to have the option to buy it.

Opps! Zarkov already stated such.....But dem's da facts....lol

Kalandros
12-07-2011, 18:58
but the only way vampires are allowed mundane armour is by buying the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death powers

This has been answered so many times since the release: you don't have to be wearing the mundane armor first to buy the magic one.

you don't buy a high elf his Heavy Armor before buying the armor of caledor - same for vamps, you don't take his bloodline power to get mundane armor before buying magic armor.

Jack of Blades
12-07-2011, 22:19
1. Wizards can cast spells while wearing armour - people used to think there was still a rule that they couldn't during edition jump. There is no such rule anymore.
2. Most wizards cannot purchase armour, because of magical interference - but if they can purchase mundane armour then they can purchase magical armour all the same.
3. It's obvious in the first place that such isn't the case for vampires and magical armour since it would be a stupid ruling to require vampires to purchase AoD/DK just to get access to magical armour. But you also missed the text right beneath ''Magical Armour'' in the VC army book.

Hope I cleared it up :)

Lord Zarkov
12-07-2011, 23:36
but the only way vampires are allowed mundane armour is by buying the Dread Knight or Avatar of Death powers
Well exactly, so they have a way to get mundane armour, therefore they can get magic armour.


The only exception is when a Wizard has armour as part of his standard equipment or an option for normal armour, (emphasis mine)
Vampires have that option (in the Dread Knight/Avatar of Death powers) so can select magical armour. Just possessing it is enough, you don't need to actually utilise it!


The bit about not being able to cast spells ("most Wizards cannot wield...") is the explanation for the actual rule ("and so cannot choose an item of Magic Armour") which has the exception listed above.

Not only do vampires have that exception (by having the option to buy mundane armour if they wish), but their book also states separately that they can buy magic armour which would even on it's own allow it (specific > general/army book > rulebook)