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a18no
11-07-2011, 16:57
Hi guys

I've come to read the storm of magic book, and 1 question need answer.

Folowwing the section about casting and dispelling. You can easely find that double 6's won't give you IF, but will get you in the miscast when casting cataclysm spells. They also say that "no special rules nor magic item" can auto-dispel a cataclysm spell.

Where do you class a double 6 on dispel attempt??? Special rule not legal?? I think that you can't auto dispel cataclysm spells, no matter what rule you use.

Someone has a different point of vue?

T10
11-07-2011, 17:53
I would like to point out that rolling double 6s is in no way more "automatic" than is beating the casting result...

a18no
11-07-2011, 18:03
I would like to point out that rolling double 6s is in no way more "automatic" than is beating the casting result...

Actually, with a double 6 on the dispel, you auto-dispel even if you don't match the value the caster did.

Is this an automatic dispel....

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2011, 18:14
SOM says you need to roll dice to dispel it. Rolling a double six is not an 'automatic dispel' as you've still rolled dice and there was a chance of faliure.

decker_cky
11-07-2011, 19:39
The rules say that if you roll 2 or more 6's in a dispel attempt, then the dispelling attempt "succeeds automatically." Sounds to me like a special rule that dispels automatically.

Furthermore, you're ignoring the line that says "You must dispel such sorceries through conventional means: by equaling or beating the casting result with your dispel attempt."

Double 6's don't count for more than their roll.

a18no
11-07-2011, 20:48
The rules say that if you roll 2 or more 6's in a dispel attempt, then the dispelling attempt "succeeds automatically." Sounds to me like a special rule that dispels automatically.

Furthermore, you're ignoring the line that says "You must dispel such sorceries through conventional means: by equaling or beating the casting result with your dispel attempt."

Double 6's don't count for more than their roll.

It's exactly the conclusion i've come too. Thanks

RanaldLoec
11-07-2011, 22:04
The rules say that if you roll 2 or more 6's in a dispel attempt, then the dispelling attempt "succeeds automatically." Sounds to me like a special rule that dispels automatically.

Furthermore, you're ignoring the line that says "You must dispel such sorceries through conventional means: by equaling or beating the casting result with your dispel attempt."

Double 6's don't count for more than their roll.

That's how I read it as well, you must equal or bear the casting value.

Easier to do as you can use as many dice as you want or have.

Don't forget the little cantrips though having your 500pt + dragon run away or worse turn on you isn't nice to think about.

sulla
12-07-2011, 06:04
Not neccessarily easy to do vs DE though, who may well throw all 4d6 dice at an oblivion to possibly destroy your fulcrum and do an s10 hit on all models within 12" of it... Very hard to stop that with only 2d6 dice.

NTJ2010
12-07-2011, 06:20
Not neccessarily easy to do vs DE though, who may well throw all 4d6 dice at an oblivion to possibly destroy your fulcrum and do an s10 hit on all models within 12" of it... Very hard to stop that with only 2d6 dice.

First: Two highest of 4D6 does not equal 2D6
Second: You are aware Oblivion tells you to nominate an arcane fulcrum within 3 inches of the caster...and it is a cataclysm spell, therefore can only be cast from a fulcrum itself. So either you'll have to use it on your own fulcrum or have your fulcrum (by magical means) get nearly adjacent to theirs).

T10
12-07-2011, 07:27
Actually, with a double 6 on the dispel, you auto-dispel even if you don't match the value the caster did.

Is this an automatic dispel....

Yes, the rules do use that word for describing the effects of dispelling with irresistible force.

The point I was (foolishly) trying to make was that rolling to dispel can't really be called an "automatic dispel" if there is a chance that the attempt may fail. You can't ever be certain to roll double 6s, but you can roll enough dice for a dispel attempt that, even if all of them come up 1s, you still beat the casting result. The latter qualifies as "automatic", don't you think?

-T10

Lord Zarkov
12-07-2011, 09:53
Second: You are aware Oblivion tells you to nominate an arcane fulcrum within 3 inches of the caster...and it is a cataclysm spell, therefore can only be cast from a fulcrum itself. So either you'll have to use it on your own fulcrum or have your fulcrum (by magical means) get nearly adjacent to theirs).

The emphasized is wrong.
Your army needs to be controlling at least one Fulcrum, not necessarily the wizard casting the spell.

GodlessM
12-07-2011, 11:19
First: Two highest of 4D6 does not equal 2D6
Second: You are aware Oblivion tells you to nominate an arcane fulcrum within 3 inches of the caster...and it is a cataclysm spell, therefore can only be cast from a fulcrum itself. So either you'll have to use it on your own fulcrum or have your fulcrum (by magical means) get nearly adjacent to theirs).

You should read the rules again before correcting someone.

a18no
12-07-2011, 12:53
Yes, the rules do use that word for describing the effects of dispelling with irresistible force.

The point I was (foolishly) trying to make was that rolling to dispel can't really be called an "automatic dispel" if there is a chance that the attempt may fail. You can't ever be certain to roll double 6s, but you can roll enough dice for a dispel attempt that, even if all of them come up 1s, you still beat the casting result. The latter qualifies as "automatic", don't you think?

-T10

I follow your point, but it's a little tricky to follow.

An "automatic" is for me everything other than beating the value.

Like you look at your dices, and see double 6, you don't even count the total of the dice cause it's an "automatic" dispel, I know you do that in your game cause I do. (but that don't work on cataclysm... just to be sure no one will use that sentence against me).

Thanks guy.

P.S. By the way, the only spell that need to be cast on fulcrum (can make an error, but pretty sure), it's the cantrip teleport.

NTJ2010
12-07-2011, 14:02
You should read the rules again before correcting someone.

Looks like I'd be incorrect...also looks like the games we played at my FLGS were fairly wrong too (we were under the impression that you need to have the fulcrums to have the person on it cast spells but as you pointed out, it doesn't say that...

My apologies

a18no
12-07-2011, 14:48
Looks like I'd be incorrect...also looks like the games we played at my FLGS were fairly wrong too (we were under the impression that you need to have the fulcrums to have the person on it cast spells but as you pointed out, it doesn't say that...

My apologies

Like I said, except for only one cantrip.