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Deathbysoup
12-07-2011, 11:18
So its been 4 days since the release of Storm of Magic. I was just wondering what your opinions are of it?

Personally I love it, Ive played 2 games of it (1 against lizards and 1 against high elves) at 2000pts with my empire and even though both times my level 4 mage turned into a monster(!) I enjoyed playing both.

The extra option and scope the game gives is massive. I have a CHIMERA!!!!
A CHIMERA!!! IN AN EMPIRE ARMY?!?!

And the whole, I can summon stuff, thing is brilliant. "Oh this situation calls for a steam tank" "Fzzzzshazmmm" "Cool, theres one!"

So theres my 2 pennies, thoughts?

Shamutanti
12-07-2011, 11:24
Hot hot hot. It's sweet.

Played more games of Warhammer this week than I have all year and they've all been fantastically fun. The sheer tactical breath and depth is awesome.

Just requires you to play man-sizedpoint games of Warhammer to get the most out of it.

MOMUS
12-07-2011, 11:33
Going by the three other SoM opinion threads in this forum section, its pretty hot.

I want to get a game in asap.

Spiney Norman
12-07-2011, 11:40
Totally hot, its a totally different, totally crazy way to play warhammer, it takes the current army tiers and drops them in a blender.

Sexiest_hero
12-07-2011, 12:05
Let me put it like this, my VC had been getting trounced by Tzeench. I struck a pact with Khorne daemons, that was very fluffy. Tzeench warriors struck a pact with Tomb kings, so it was arch rivals to the max. Things were looking bad for me (My Giant Vampire was flanked and rear charged by monsters with a bone giant in his front) With my bloodletter horde hopelessly grinding skeletal warriors. He mis cast and blew up his wizard of a fulcrum, Letting me summon a randome unit of orks with a big boss, who managed to whoop butt up the board. Things were balanced till a random large spider I had bit Settra on the neck and took his last wound after he smacked down my Vampire general who was trying to squash him. It was the most fun I had since early 3.5 D&D

Dryaktylus
12-07-2011, 12:37
The extra option and scope the game gives is massive. I have a CHIMERA!!!!
A CHIMERA!!! IN AN EMPIRE ARMY?!?!


There're many creatures in the Imperial Zoo, including Chimearas, Manticores and Hydras. Some of them are battle mounts for important personalities - so imagine Karl Franz riding a Cockatrice.:cool:

Odin
12-07-2011, 12:51
Not played yet, but having read the book, I can't wait to get stuck in. We will almost certainly houserule that the monster rules (and costs) from the book overrule the ones from army books. So Chaos Lord can take a Manticore at the new cheap price (still not cheap enough to make it a particularly attractive option, but it's an improvement), and can take the upgrades as well.

We'll probably houserule things like the cockatrice as a Rare choice in the WoC army.

Back to the official rules though, the cunning things you can do are awesome. The heavens spells that move units and templates, along with the cantrip that allows you to swap fulcrums, could set up all sorts of warhammer-snooker.

Caitsidhe
12-07-2011, 12:51
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candyland either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Odin
12-07-2011, 12:52
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candlyand either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Have you played it?

thesheriff
12-07-2011, 13:01
Well, it definatly rocks. Played a big game of it (which was alirght). and a 1000pt game for giggles. Which was hilarious. And plan to play a 2k+25% on wednesday.

So, looking good, basically!

thesheriff

explorator
12-07-2011, 13:06
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candyland either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Have you played any games of SoM? I found it to be very similar to a regular game considering my normal 2500 points had 625 in free monsters/items. The outcome of the game is in the hands of the players; comparisons to Candyland are spurious.

I am having fun with SoM, but then again, having fun is the main reason I play Warhammer.

Shamutanti
12-07-2011, 13:16
I am having fun with SoM, but then again, having fun is the main reason I play Warhammer.

Dear god man, I think you might just be onto something!!

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 13:47
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candyland either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Huh. The outcome of the game has very little to do with me huh? I must have been playing wrong.

Caitsidhe
12-07-2011, 14:27
Have you played it?

Yes. I've played three times already. A friend of mine bought the book. We did some proxy terrain for the fulcrums. The effect of the fulcrums and magic on the game (not to mention the monsters) made the game unpredictable and rather difficult to build any kind of tactical basis on. You can do everything right and get the rug pulled. You can do everything wrong and end up leapfrogging to control multiple fulcrums. The games I won didn't seem to have much to do with me at all. The game I lost had nothing to do with me.

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 14:29
Sounds much like a real battle with the rug being pulled etc. The only sure thing about a tactical plan is that it will fail lol.

Taking and managing fulcrums DOES require tactics and thought.

I'd like to see some examples of how the games have nothing to do with the player.

Caitsidhe
12-07-2011, 14:34
I'm just giving my two cents. I considered the time playing it a total waste. I enjoy plain old Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and found nothing in it to recommend. The cool monster models are nice (and will be useful for conversions). If you like it, knock yourself out. For me, three is the magic number. I don't see this game being played any more regularly than Apocalypse for 40K.

Spiney Norman
12-07-2011, 14:39
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candyland either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Because its obviously better if the outcome of the game is decided by which army you play...

I found it remarkably refreshing that the power builds that dominate regular warhammer don't at all dominate SoM in the same way. Storm has been a "great leveller" for warhammer, in that all armies are pretty well playing on equal footing for the first time since... actually I can't remember when that last happened. i even saw a wood elf army caining at the weekend, Dryad wizards can be nasty on fulcrums.

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 14:46
I'm just giving my two cents. I considered the time playing it a total waste. I enjoy plain old Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and found nothing in it to recommend. The cool monster models are nice (and will be useful for conversions). If you like it, knock yourself out. For me, three is the magic number. I don't see this game being played any more regularly than Apocalypse for 40K.

I'm just interested in your assertation that the expansion is inferior because you feel that what you do has no outcome on the battle. I would just like to understand why you think that, or if you just don't like it and are downplaying it as tactically inferior to illuminate how you enjoy playing as superior.

If it's that you don't like wizards having that much power, that's fair enough. If it's that you don't like the different scenarios which require control over fulcrums instead of games being decided through pitched battles, that too is fair enough.

I quit 7th edition because I didn't like how the games were all the same, and that army composition made it so you didn't really have to play the game because when you lined up you could predict who was going to win 9 times out of 10 before the first die was tossed, or how cavalry clearly won the game, or how the game was very static in my opinion in that it very closely mirrored a chess match, which turned me off. Those are all opinions of taste which of course can neither be right nor wrong.

But to say that the expansion now requires little thought or tactics and that it doesn't matter what you do the outcome is all random is a bit harsh, and disingenuine I feel, so I'm interested in WHY you feel that way.

eldargal
12-07-2011, 14:57
Hot as Lelith's thighs, but far more accessible and considerably safer.

I love what Mr Norman said about putting the current tiers in a blender, a very succint way of putting it. I'd love to see a SoM tournament, who knows who would win? Just brilliant, even leaving aside the (supposed) regualr updates in WD, superb monsters (I like all of them now I've seen them in person) and the absolutely stunning Dark Elf sorceress.

ColShaw
12-07-2011, 14:58
Wow, that was a hard smackdown of someone disagreeing.

Believe it or not, guys, there are people out there who feel that magic and large monsters are the weakest part of WFB, and the part most prone to large swings of luck. There are people who want to feel they have better control over the outcome of the game, and don't want it to be largely decided by 1-2 models on each side.

If the purpose of this thread was simply to talk about how awesome SoM is, then the thread title and original post are misleading.

Caitsidhe
12-07-2011, 14:59
I'm just interested in your assertation that the expansion is inferior because you feel that what you do has no outcome on the battle. I would just like to understand why you think that, or if you just don't like it and are downplaying it as tactically inferior to illuminate how you enjoy playing as superior.

I am a Wood Elf player. I won two out of the three games I played. I would describe my play during the three games as normal (for me) with no glaring tactical errors. My opponent was a capable player. We both moved in tactical ways to try and take control of the fulcrums.

In all three cases the outcome was decided by single spell early in the game, further enhanced by the growing power as you gain fulcrums. My opponent was beating me in one game, playing masterfully and a single spell cast by me entirely reversed the situation in one turn and made it so he could never come back. In another game the craziness on the fulcrums liquidated both our Wizards in a heartbeat. The tactical movement of our troops was entirely secondary to the whim of the spells. I suppose that is what they intended (calling it the storm of magic).


If it's that you don't like wizards having that much power, that's fair enough. If it's that you don't like the different scenarios which require control over fulcrums instead of games being decided through pitched battles, that too is fair enough.

What I like is the player having greater weight in the outcome. My feeling is that the difference brought to the table by a good and bad player is greatly mitigated. In that, the magic is a huge equalizer. It balances the wrong thing in my opinion. It doesn't balance crazy armies or poor pricing. It doesn't balance badly designed models or units. It reduces the effect of relative levels of skill.


But to say that the expansion now requires little thought or tactics and that it doesn't matter what you do the outcome is all random is a bit harsh, and disingenuine I feel, so I'm interested in WHY you feel that way.

I explained above. I do indeed feel that the random factor is too big for my taste.

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 15:08
Then that's fair enough. The spells, like normal 8th edition spells, are this edition's version of the gunline or the cav line.

Storm of Magic does indeed center on the wizards and the destructive and game altering spells. The tactical part comes in controlling the fulcrums, and less on the battle line.

8th edition overall is a lot more gamey (random). And it is indeed a lot more equalized by random forces. Of course whether or not that is good or bad is up to the person. I've found 8th attracts a crowd of people that tend to be polarly opposite to those that liked 7th.

Thank you for explaining.

eldargal
12-07-2011, 15:09
Well I can't say I agree at all but it is nice to see someone spell out their opinion in an intelligent fashion instead of just ranting about something being rubbish.

Personally I love the randomness and the element of luck, it makes the game seem much more real and compelling than a clockwork game of chess with miniatures (cough 7th edition uncough).

Mr_Rose
12-07-2011, 15:10
Still not seeing how casting a spell is a decision you're not making. "[You] cast a spell" is something that has nothing to do with you?

What would have happened if you had cast a different spell? Or not cast one at all?

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 15:14
I think the difference is that the magic right now is much like the 7th edition cav lines or gun lines were... one spell can erase a unit. And with peoples' tendency to field death star units, losing your death star unit to a spell means losing the game.

Mr_Rose
12-07-2011, 15:32
So...as a tactical option...don't field deathstars?
I'm sorry if this sounds overly critical but I refuse to accept "my old tactics are suicide now" as a synonym for "tactics are irrelevant/impossible now."

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 15:37
I cannot speak for those that deride 8th as such but I agree with you.

ArmyC
12-07-2011, 16:00
Here is my completely uninformed opinion.

It sounds like SoM is similar to the way my group plays 40k Apocalypse. We build a great looking table, build lists full of destructive intentions, deploy our armies as best we can figure out, take a few pictures, then ............

we start drinking and stop caring about the outcome and just enjoy the ride. Big games HAVE to be more about fun, and enjoying the view, than any final outcome.

SoM might help you let go of any WAAC feelings you have, and just laugh at the craziness that occurs.

That big deathstar unit that is poised to deal a crushing blow, whoops, a pub just materialized in front of the unit, and leadership breaks down as they rush in and order several rounds.

I am sitting in my kitchen waiting for the fed ex guy to arrive with my book today. I will have an informed opinion tomorrow.

eldargal
12-07-2011, 16:01
That is pretty much it, ArmyC, except now you can have a wild, fun time with 2000pts (or less, even) and a few monsters without the need for 5k+ Apoca sized forces and FW superheavies.

Jind_Singh
12-07-2011, 16:08
I've played a fair bit of Eight Ed and love it (after a bumpy start of me nearly quitting!).

I bought my book on Sunday, read it over 3 times, and I'm SUPER excited about the outcome of getting to play my 1st SOM game this Friday! :D

The game looks completley different! If I want the game outcome to be decided on battle lines, tactics, and the rough give and take of combat I'll play normal 8th.

BUT if I want the game to be objective based, not care as much about standard battleline tactics, have the ability to use crazy spells/monsters/allies - and focus more on good times and dice rolling - it's SOM all the way!

And the way the game mechanics are designed for SOM I think that after the intitial fun of "OOOOHHH I can destroy entire units in one go with this shiny spell" will calm down as people find their counters and tactics to deny the enemy their chances to overkill your units, while you at the same time do them in.

In those terms it's a fantastic expansion!

I'm well excited personally - but it's a shame to see others with the opposite view being shot down - after all not everyone likes Orcs & Goblins and hey - some weirdos are even known to like ELVEN ARMIES - but it doesn't make them wrong (Just uncool!)

loveless
12-07-2011, 16:14
Hot as Lelith's thighs, but far more accessible and considerably safer.

This is the best thing I've read on WarSeer in a good while. :D

--------------

I haven't gotten a game in yet (it will probably be awhile due to a lack of opponents lately), but I will say that this is the most I've wanted to play Fantasy since...well...ever. I just love the concept, love the monsters, and love the giggle-worthiness of some of the spells.

Dante blackfur
12-07-2011, 17:35
since it is an "Official" expansion, does anyone think GW will host a tournament using the rules like maybe next years Ard Boyz or something?

As far as On topic, I haven't gotten to play any games of it yet, but reading through the book it looks like great fun and the sheer number of options it opens up just looks amazing! I get my first game tomorrow, Skaven and demons! :cheese: so we'll see if my hype lives up to reality. (I think it will :D)

decker_cky
12-07-2011, 17:40
Storms of Magic - so hot right now.

Dante, I think people will need more playtime before deciding whether it's a tournament worthy game. I don't think GW will host any major tournaments with it, but if people start finding it decently tactical and balanced, I could see there being indy tourneys which use Storms of Magic as their 'thing'.

Going to play my first game today. 2000 pts + 500 pts. Beastmen using 2 Shaggoths and a Cygor.....MADNESS!

Ramius4
12-07-2011, 18:14
I absolutely love it. Sure, there's times when a single spell can change the course of the game. But is that really any different from a normal game?

The sheer variety available is what makes it truly fun for me. :D

Urgat
12-07-2011, 18:18
since it is an "Official" expansion, does anyone think GW will host a tournament using the rules like maybe next years Ard Boyz or something?

It is absolutly not balanced to be played competitively, it's just not the point, so they COULD do tournaments, but I'm not sure what they would hope to achieve with those. The winner certainly would not prove he's the best or anything.



I absolutely love it. Sure, there's times when a single spell can change the course of the game. But is that really any different from a normal game?

Well I've started playing in 5th ed, and then, a single spell could end the game before it even really begun, so...

Ramius4
12-07-2011, 18:25
Well I've started playing in 5th ed, and then, a single spell could end the game before it even really begun, so...

I started back in 4th. And yup, I remember those days fondly. But then, I've never been a very competitive type of player, it's all about the fun for me :D

I was glad to see Assault of Stone back as one of the cataclysm spells. That was always my favorite spell in 5th;)

But yeah, there's pretty much always going to be something in the game that can or will happen that will end a game before it begins. That's just how it is when you have a dice/luck based game.

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 18:27
Honestly lining up with a power list at a tournament isn't showing you are the best at anything either. It shows you can copy lists off of the internet ;)

If you want to show you are good, then the tournament should start off even with the same armies.

If you really want to show how good you are, win a tournament with a weak list.

Caitsidhe
12-07-2011, 20:49
I suppose the best indication of interest/sales in Storm of Magic is the tepid number of threads and responses to the same since it came out. I truly expected there to be three or four times this many threads with lots more discussion of specifics. There isn't. There seemed to be more interest and discussion of the game before it came out than after. I would suggest that doesn't bode well.

IcedCrow
12-07-2011, 20:54
It's not a tournament expansion. I'm not surprised of the reaction.

Ramius4
12-07-2011, 20:55
I suppose the best indication of interest/sales in Storm of Magic is the tepid number of threads and responses to the same since it came out. I truly expected there to be three or four times this many threads with lots more discussion of specifics. There isn't. There seemed to be more interest and discussion of the game before it came out than after. I would suggest that doesn't bode well.

Although I'd like to point out that there are 6 threads about it on the 1st page of warhammer general discussion. I'd say that's a pretty fair amount of interest.

I love it personally. But it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. Much like 40K Apocalypse. Some will use it all the time, and others not at all.

tsv
12-07-2011, 21:05
Speaking as someone who's only just started playing WHFB I'm really looking forward to trying SoM once the basic rules are more firm in my mind. Once I've got my Orcs up to 1500 points I'll be investing in some big fat monsters and shamans for some SoM games.

Ramius4
12-07-2011, 21:10
Speaking as someone who's only just started playing WHFB I'm really looking forward to trying SoM once the basic rules are more firm in my mind. Once I've got my Orcs up to 1500 points I'll be investing in some big fat monsters and shamans for some SoM games.

One nice thing is that the allowance for monsters/magic is very scaleable. It's just 25% of whatever point value you're playing. I personally feel that it will play best at point values 2500+, but that's mostly because the spells are meant for larger games where losing a unit or two isn't such a big deal.

PS. Welcome to the wonderful world of warhammer :)

Razhem
12-07-2011, 21:26
Because its obviously better if the outcome of the game is decided by which army you play...

I found it remarkably refreshing that the power builds that dominate regular warhammer don't at all dominate SoM in the same way. Storm has been a "great leveller" for warhammer, in that all armies are pretty well playing on equal footing for the first time since... actually I can't remember when that last happened. i even saw a wood elf army caining at the weekend, Dryad wizards can be nasty on fulcrums.

Just give it time and a whole new set of army tiers will pop up! Also, whatever happened to 8th being the best thing evah and how things were balanced again and all that?

pointyteeth
12-07-2011, 21:28
Just give it time and a whole new set of army tiers will pop up! Also, whatever happened to 8th being the best thing evah and how things were balanced again and all that?

+1 to this

The bearded one
12-07-2011, 21:33
Just give it time and a whole new set of army tiers will pop up! Also, whatever happened to 8th being the best thing evah and how things were balanced again and all that?

It just means we are getting used to this more levelled playingfield to be seeing the slight nuances in power. A couple of armies have a lot of trouble (wood elves), but apart from them all armies don't have too much trouble winning a game. Certainly it's not as terrible as 7th, where armychoice and armylist was roughly 75% of the victory. 7th was powercreep personified. 8th is "ow dearey me, my bretonnians are fighting dark elves, this might prove to be a most mildly unfortuitous slightly uphill battle!"

Flash Felix
12-07-2011, 21:40
I haven't played a game of Storm of Magic, and I'm unlikely to. It doesn't interest me enough to devote my scarce gaming time and energy towards (but then I'm a Dwarf player, so magic and monsters aren't my thing so much).

I'm glad that many of you are enjoying it though, and I hope you continue to do so. My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Which of those two projects would have made the Warhammer hobby better?

Mr_Rose
12-07-2011, 21:48
How about a new OK book written by designers whose enthusiasm and drive have been refreshed by working on a no-holds-barred fun supplement that sucked in ideas from the whole design team?

Dante blackfur
12-07-2011, 21:49
I haven't played a game of Storm of Magic, and I'm unlikely to. It doesn't interest me enough to devote my scarce gaming time and energy towards (but then I'm a Dwarf player, so magic and monsters aren't my thing so much).

I'm glad that many of you are enjoying it though, and I hope you continue to do so. My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Which of those two projects would have made the Warhammer hobby better?

If gw made an army book instead of SoM, sure it may have improved the hobby a little, but only for those few selected armies. The rest of us works have been stuck with the same rules and such. Where as with SoM our still sells a lot of books and it allows all hobbyiests to suite new shiny models. And still be while to use them. So over all I think it was smarter for GW to release gw over the summer rather then a selected army.

The bearded one
12-07-2011, 21:49
Remember that this is Fantasy's very first expansion (40K has had 4!) and it came with a host of goodies that are usable for a normal game too (the terrain might be usable, the plastic characters are great and the dragon and manticore can be used by warriors of chaos and dark elves in normal games too)

Liber
12-07-2011, 22:02
My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Which of those two projects would have made the Warhammer hobby better?

That is an unfair question. You are implying implications that shouldn't be there :P

its not either/or. and it never has been. SoM has probably been planned for 2 years or more, so it wasn't gw saying: "oh, we were gonna update all these old army books, but instead lets just create an expansion for the core game".

ok/we/brets will be released when they are released. simple as that.

furthermore, SoM is (like all GW releases) an investment and if that investment gives good returns back to GW, then that will ultimately affect the core hobby as a whole in a positive way.
i am also a dwarf player, and am looking forward to trying SoM, as there are a few monsters i think would fit quite well with the army (great eagles, sabertusks, gryphons..and others) and i also would like a chance to experiment with different runelord builds (you can make them extremely tough) and stick him on a fulcrum :)

Sexiest_hero
12-07-2011, 22:28
I still dont understand when people get upset when one spell can change a game, when one charge or LD check can do the same, abd has done. My bloodknights in a flank well do tons more damage than a great deal of spells and cost about as much as my pimped out lvl4. in 7th, they were waay more pwerful than spells are now.

If you want tp play a balanced game play a competitive SPORT. a GAME will never be balanced because games are for fun. If you want to play a game competitively you have to know something will be OP because it's impossible to do that with 15 armies. The same goes for Video fighting games. WHFB has never, isn't, and can never be completely balanced.

Why do people complain about dwarves with magic and monsters. They used to back in the day.

Flash Felix
13-07-2011, 01:20
That is an unfair question. You are implying implications that shouldn't be there :P

You're right here, in that my disinterest in Storm of Magic did come through strongly. I am glad that people are enjoying it, it's just that it's not for me.


its not either/or. and it never has been. SoM has probably been planned for 2 years or more, so it wasn't gw saying: "oh, we were gonna update all these old army books, but instead lets just create an expansion for the core game".

ok/we/brets will be released when they are released. simple as that.


I think you might be wrong here though. The time, money and staff resource spent on Storm of Magic could have resulted in a new Army Book. I know that it will be done anyway, but it pushes everything else back. Here's an example, imagine the WFB releases over the next twelve months, option 1 with Storm of Magic, option 2 without:

Option 1: SoM, Army Book 1, Army Book 2

Option 2: Army Book 1, Army Book 2, Army Book 3

Personally, I'd have preferred option 2. But I can see that a lot of people prefer option 1, and having read some of the above posts, the difference isn't as clearcut as I'd thought. Also, as option 1 is what happened, I'll live with it and wish you all good luck and fun gaming.

GodlessM
13-07-2011, 01:38
I'd say cold in absolute zero terms. I have to caveat that with the fact that I don't enjoy playing Candyland either. The outcome of the game has very little to do with you. If you get a kick out of the craziness, sort of just killing several hours to watch what happens, Storms is fine. I don't play for those reasons.

Just a question; is there anything you are ever happy about? Just saying...'cause I've never seen you post something positive, ever.

In response to the point itself, I think it says a lot about Warhammer players these days that people are judging the *****-and-giggles optional expansion by its competitive (im)balance.

Urgat
13-07-2011, 01:42
I'm glad that many of you are enjoying it though, and I hope you continue to do so. My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Considering that, from all accounts, work has started for them a while ago already, the assumption that work on SoM has detracted at all from progress on those books is completly gratuitous. You seem to think otherwise with your option 1)/2) thing, but as far as I can tell, there's no less armybook releases than before, so yeah, it's a baseless assumption. It might be that the guys working on SoM were not suited for writing a wood elf book, for instance. People seem to thing all the GW people are multipurpose, which I find amusing since every time a book is released, you get such complains as "why him? XXX would have done a better job at that book!".
Bah, I should just shut up.

Hashulaman
13-07-2011, 01:56
My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Which of those two projects would have made the Warhammer hobby better?

When the rumors of 8th where coming out a little over a year ago, the naysayers first said to just change VC and DoC. Then they said re do all the army books. This raises the question, what makes more money? To make only some money off army books only a few people will buy? Or, remake the rules EVERYONE, no matter what book they have,will have to buy?


Re making over a dozen army books, only to have them bought only by the people who play them(despite a very few exception) will not make much money. In fact they may loose money. Why should a VC player buy a Dwarf book and Vice versa, books that they do not need? However, they will both have to buy the BRB to play 8th? In the end, it took it was a better buisness idea to make 8th that everyone has to buy, instead of remaking all the army books, which have probably cost more money than one BRB, and only the people who play that army buy?


Same with SoM, SoM was made so that all the armies can play. You just update OK, Brets, or WE, GW stands to loose money. As for increasing the hobby, updating just those books only works for those players. The Warhammer community as a whole cannot Make use of those 3 armies. Whereas SoM has stuff every army can use, such as new monsters people can buy, or even convert from other GW stuff. Which, in my opinion enchances the hobby for everyone. Wheras updating those 3 books only works for the OK/Bret/WE players. Now I'm not bashing those armies, they do need an update. In SoM however, they stand a chance at winning as much as any other army. Even the WAAC players cannot dominate but so much as there are options that all armies can use that make each army equally dangerous.



Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, I am not saying you are wrong in any way, but GW is a buisness first. They will do what makes money. Apparently there are people out there that like what GW has been doing recently. There have been many more people on here that enjoy 8th more than 7th, and there have been many more people on here that enjoy SoM. Some of whom probably said they were not going to like SoM, or it would kill the game. So far, SoM has increased the hobby as a whole, more people seem to be happy about SoM than think its crap.

unheilig
13-07-2011, 04:24
HOT.

I was burned out on fantasy, and couldnt think of a single army Id want to do.

Now I'm excited more than ever, and can't settle on an army, feeling spoiled for choice!

Woodsman
13-07-2011, 04:45
Option 1: SoM, Army Book 1, Army Book 2

Option 2: Army Book 1, Army Book 2, Army Book 3



Secret Option 3: Army Book 1, Space Marines, Army Book 2.
Lets be realistic, please.

Personally as I don't play Ogres or Woodies, either for or against and as a long time Bret player am very happy with our current book, SoM was pure win for me.

So a very hot from me. Some of the rumors had me a bit worried, but I think that a lot of thought has gone into this thing. Great to see the old monsters back and some of those spells as well!

Brother Alexos
13-07-2011, 04:53
Personally, I think it's Hotter than Burning Lightning. Just the idea of it is great.

Gabacho Mk.II
13-07-2011, 05:29
Time will tell.


;)

Lord Solar Plexus
13-07-2011, 06:10
My only question about Storm of Magic is, is it so good that the money and effort GW put into it was better spent on this, or on a new Ogre Kingdoms/Wood Elves/Bretonnia Army Book?

Which of those two projects would have made the Warhammer hobby better?

Completely depends on who you ask. In one of the many threads asking you to show your support for SoM, there can only be one answer. ;) Let's just hope nobody gets seriously burned...

shadowfinder
13-07-2011, 06:33
It just means we are getting used to this more levelled playingfield to be seeing the slight nuances in power. A couple of armies have a lot of trouble (wood elves), but apart from them all armies don't have too much trouble winning a game. Certainly it's not as terrible as 7th, where armychoice and armylist was roughly 75% of the victory. 7th was powercreep personified. 8th is "ow dearey me, my bretonnians are fighting dark elves, this might prove to be a most mildly unfortuitous slightly uphill battle!"

As a woode elf player i been dong preety good in 8th. At ard boys i came in 4th out of 26 people. Would have had 2nd if it wasn't for that odd last mission.

Anyways 8th caused some thinking in how games where played. SoM I have to agree is a blender to the so called tiers that have come about.

Large point games are crazy fun. I played a 4000 (1000) = 5000 game VS warriors of chaos. Normal a extreamly bad match-up for wood elves. In SoM beware the woods have a whole new meaning. LOL ( I will have to buy 7 woods if the make a tournament out of this)

I say it is good fun and makes you lthink really hard at times in how to make your list.

I also play Brit's. They don't sweet monsters. The wizards and magic didn't even slow thom down.

kallistosprom
13-07-2011, 07:25
HOT :D

But I do hope it doesn't go the way of Apocalypse and only played once a month, if that. I bought/made super heavies for my space orc army and currently feeling like i wasted my money. Shame really as I really enjoy games of apocalypse.

I'm sitting on a big empire army and a reasonably sized Vampire counts army. Ready to do my pact with Sylvania and thinking about for the first time in many editions actually being able to field monsters that captains and characters don't ride on, eg giant. But Gamesworkshop is getting more and more expensive and if i'm going to spend money on more bits, I need to know i'm going to get value out of the product. I have the book and its a good read, loved the empire story of Gelt bringing the entire Empire Zoo down on the beastment and I can see summoning spell casting vampires through the use of a fulcrum or just even a necromancer to start summoning a new army could be a lot of fun. But it does depend on the local area and what hobbiests decide.

I don't want to throw money away.

m1acca1551
13-07-2011, 08:02
GW has pulled of a winner imo

My VC army list can now use the sylvanian crossbow militia from Storm of chaos i did up.

Many waac players i know don't like it due to the randomness of it, and list building won't win you the game. It really takes me back to 3/4 ed and when coupled with new 8th ed rules make for a really great and FUN game

Karak Norn Clansman
13-07-2011, 08:08
I'm just giving my two cents. I considered the time playing it a total waste. I enjoy plain old Warhammer Fantasy Battles, and found nothing in it to recommend. The cool monster models are nice (and will be useful for conversions). If you like it, knock yourself out. For me, three is the magic number. I don't see this game being played any more regularly than Apocalypse for 40K.

Storm of Magic is the Warhammer equivalent of Apocalypse, so that's no surprise. ;)

(However, I expect SoM to go somewhat faster than Apocalypse due to devastating magic.)

Lord Solar Plexus
13-07-2011, 09:16
Many waac players i know don't like it due to the randomness of it


I think you are jumping to conclusions, and rather unfair ones at that. There's really no reason WAAC players wouldn't be interested in bigger and better and more destructive toys, or a 3+ ward save for their mage.

I know I wouldn't like the increased randomness and I'd be hurt if someone called me a WAAC player. Well, not really, but it wouldn't be true.

LordBest
13-07-2011, 09:20
Hot, beautiful miniatures and an interesting ruleset with the promise of future WD updates, what more could one ask for?

m1acca1551
13-07-2011, 09:22
I think you are jumping to conclusions, and rather unfair ones at that. There's really no reason WAAC players wouldn't be interested in bigger and better and more destructive toys, or a 3+ ward save for their mage.

I know I wouldn't like the increased randomness and I'd be hurt if someone called me a WAAC player. Well, not really, but it wouldn't be true.

"In my gaming circle waac players" was what i should have said.... my bad

Lord Solar Plexus
13-07-2011, 10:09
Never mind, m1acca1551.


Hot, beautiful miniatures and an interesting ruleset with the promise of future WD updates, what more could one ask for?

More time for gaming? ;)

Jim
13-07-2011, 10:24
HOT! :D

Played my first game last night (2,000 points + 25% Empire Vs Dark Elves) and it was a total hoot...

The magic phase was mind-bending as we had both (obviously) taken magic heavy lists (Lvl 4 & 2 x Lvl 2's each)... Trying to figure out which spell to cast from the regular deck, Cataclysm or Cantrips was great fun puzzling out. Both of us were left biting finger nails as seemingly game changing spells got dispelled and the low cantrips went through - but ended up being the ones we should have dispelled!!!

I got to use a Giant and had great fun smashing a Hydra and Lvl 4 Sorceress off a Fulcrum with him - plus Wyssan's Weighted Dice (I chose turning 1's into 5's) played havoc with both of our plans but led to some outrageous moves...

Overall we got to use some units that the internets tell us we shouldn't (Giants, Dragons, etc...) which turned out to be great fun - Can't wait until my next game...

Jim

TrojanWolf
13-07-2011, 10:44
I've only had one 1,250pt game, but I had a lot of fun playing it. My favourite part was my plague priest drowning Skulltaker in a giant bog. :D

I've found that a higher point game would be much better for a pact too. I tried one with a single vampire (dark acolyte and lord of the dead) and a unit of 15 skeletons, but perhaps losing the vamp to dwellers is skewing my judgement on it.

I can't wait to try another game of it though, maybe this time taking a nasty critter instead like the chimera or cockatrice. Anyone used the latter already? I'm kinda put off by S/T4, but if it's not too bad in game I'll give it a go.

Deathbysoup
13-07-2011, 11:15
Good positive response from people then, obviously not everyone will like it and I repsect those opinions.

I just like the overall randomness of it, Ive had fun so far and I think it will take a couple of weeks for people to start playing it more and more.

Memnos
13-07-2011, 11:28
I haven't played it. I suspect based on my reading of the rules that when people learn the ins and outs it won't be as random. I sincerely think most games will be:

1st turn: cantrip wizard duel until one of his guys gets knocked off and you have more fulcrums than they have. Then cast a huge spell with a level 1 wizard. He'll probably explode and a huge chunk of the enemy will be gone.

use remaining dice to summon a Slann.

ewar
13-07-2011, 12:57
I haven't played it. I suspect based on my reading of the rules that when people learn the ins and outs it won't be as random. I sincerely think most games will be:

1st turn: cantrip wizard duel until one of his guys gets knocked off and you have more fulcrums than they have. Then cast a huge spell with a level 1 wizard. He'll probably explode and a huge chunk of the enemy will be gone.

use remaining dice to summon a Slann.

Sounds a bit cynical :D

Just play WYSIWYG and then if they want to shell out 25 for a model they can summon only in odd games, then fair play to them.

I haven't played yet, but am really looking forward to it. I'm most excited about the opportunity to add models I otherwise wouldn't buy.

The Arachnarok is already first on the shopping list to add to my Lizardmen - a giant poisonous tarantula? Sounds fluffy to me.

Okuto
13-07-2011, 13:12
It's hot, I have to admit the atmosphere is alot more casual and I've actually been having some fun, had my butt handed to me but this is a good direction. Though I refuse to get the monster models, I just bring more war machines

BirchbarktheAncient
13-07-2011, 13:31
The bottom line is this. If ya like it, PLAY IT! I'm certainly not going to hate on my fellow gamers for wanting to play it. I'm sure I'll try a game or two but I just prefer regular Warhammer.

Wishing
13-07-2011, 14:11
HOT :D

But I do hope it doesn't go the way of Apocalypse and only played once a month, if that. I bought/made super heavies for my space orc army and currently feeling like i wasted my money. Shame really as I really enjoy games of apocalypse.

I'm sitting on a big empire army and a reasonably sized Vampire counts army. Ready to do my pact with Sylvania and thinking about for the first time in many editions actually being able to field monsters that captains and characters don't ride on, eg giant. But Gamesworkshop is getting more and more expensive and if i'm going to spend money on more bits, I need to know i'm going to get value out of the product. I have the book and its a good read, loved the empire story of Gelt bringing the entire Empire Zoo down on the beastment and I can see summoning spell casting vampires through the use of a fulcrum or just even a necromancer to start summoning a new army could be a lot of fun. But it does depend on the local area and what hobbiests decide.

I don't want to throw money away.

Sounds like an unfortunate situation, where the only remedy is to find or train new players that are willing to play the games you want to play. If you consider money spent on a game that you can't find opponents for to be wasted money, I understand, but that's both not under your control and not the game's fault. Fingers crossed for you that your opponents will both enjoy SoM and start playing Apocalypse again more often.

IcedCrow
13-07-2011, 14:15
I find organizing a campaign where the expansions can play a role will net you a handful of players. That's what I do.

Otherwise yeah I'd never get an SoM game in either.