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Easy E
01-06-2005, 19:05
Imperial Law dictates that each world must raise a sufficient body of men to protect the planet; are their more regulations on this point?

For example, would the Imperial Governor of a Feral world be able to recruit a mass of primitives with stone axes and atlat spear throwers and call it a PDF. Would this need to be supplemented by a core of more "modern" troops? To what extent is PDF equipment and training directed by the Administratum or Departmento Munitorum?

Cpl. Calvin
01-06-2005, 19:09
I would have to say it depends on the type of planet and its tithe level. In other words, some planets owe the imperium certain things and some owe other things. A feral/fuedal planet doesn't owe what an industrialized or hive world does. They just don't have the resources.

This begs the question, how are feral/fuedal worlds defended from Orks, Chaos, or 'Nids? I would guess by forces from the nearest fortress type worlds.

Sojourner
01-06-2005, 19:30
PDFs can commonly be braves with stone axes - but a governor will be expected to raise a reasonable body of troops appropriate for his population. It's his responsibility first to defend his system, the protection of the Imperial military is a privelige, not a right. While a planet can't be expected to equip its PDF to the standard of the Imperial Guard if it doesn't have the technology, it will need to send its troops with provisions and such, ready to be shipped out and given additional training.

Rich
01-06-2005, 19:41
I would have to say it depends on the type of planet and its tithe level. In other words, some planets owe the imperium certain things and some owe other things. A feral/fuedal planet doesn't owe what an industrialized or hive world does. They just don't have the resources.

This begs the question, how are feral/fuedal worlds defended from Orks, Chaos, or 'Nids? I would guess by forces from the nearest fortress type worlds.

I get the impression that they often aren't defended when attacked - not unless the threat is easily met, or must be countered. The Imperium seems to have insifficient resources to defend worlds which do not contribute much to the Imperium, and the lack of a fully developed orbital defence force and surveillance network might see the world overwhelmed almost before it could call for help in any case.

As far as feral worlds are concerned, then I would imagine the governor has a cadre of 'modern' troops with which to defend the world, supported by levies of primitive warriors from the local population (most likely based on a feudal structure). it may even be that the natives contribute towards the Imperium in a different way, by providing Space Marine recuits or by harvesting certain materials from a death world.

Easy E
01-06-2005, 20:21
I would have to say it depends on the type of planet and its tithe level. In other words, some planets owe the imperium certain things and some owe other things. A feral/fuedal planet doesn't owe what an industrialized or hive world does. They just don't have the resources.

I want to make sure that I am clear. I am not refering to the units that are tithed to the Imperial Guard. I am refering to forces that are locally raised by the Imperial Governor in obligation of his duty to raise a force to protect his planet in the case of invasion and to maintain order.

People seem to be concentrating on Feral Worlds. Let me try and broaden the discussion. Does Imperial Law (not local law) require an Imperial Governor to maintain certain standards for the PDF in regards to size, training, equipment, and organization?

Hlokk
01-06-2005, 20:44
As far as I remember, an imperial govenor not only has to answer the tythe for Imperial Guard, but also has to make adequate provisions to make sure that their planet is protected adequately. There are, to my knowledge, no specific levels or requirements in any of the fluff on how this is done.

I imagine there are some dictates on this, but they would be specific to the type, importance and location of the planet. these would probably be set by the administratum on a sector level and then modified or negotiated with the officio munitiorum. for example, a Hive world near the eye of terror would need to have a large, well trained PDF, whereas some backwater agri world wouldnt need that much in the way of an organised or well equipped pdf.

Cpl. Calvin
01-06-2005, 20:54
Hlokk hit it on the head I think.

Good job!!!

EmperorsChamp01
01-06-2005, 21:32
I think that once an army is big enough then the Ruler sends for equipment from a nearby forgeworld then he can give them to his troops.

Sojourner
01-06-2005, 21:51
So what's in it for the forgeworld? The admech have an arrangement with the guard, not individual worlds.

Easy E
01-06-2005, 22:05
As far as I remember, an imperial govenor not only has to answer the tythe for Imperial Guard, but also has to make adequate provisions to make sure that their planet is protected adequately. There are, to my knowledge, no specific levels or requirements in any of the fluff on how this is done.

I imagine there are some dictates on this, but they would be specific to the type, importance and location of the planet. these would probably be set by the administratum on a sector level and then modified or negotiated with the officio munitiorum. for example, a Hive world near the eye of terror would need to have a large, well trained PDF, whereas some backwater agri world wouldnt need that much in the way of an organised or well equipped pdf.

Yes, I agree. Let's continue with our extrapolations. I would imagine that the PDF could be equipped with local equipment. For example, an industrial world could produce their own tanks, artillery, and firearms for the PDF. Then only the units eligible for the tithe would train with the standard Imperial equipment.

We can use Kreig as an example of this. They created their own vehicles such as the Ragnorak and Seigfreid. They also developed the Blitzen AA gun.


So what's in it for the forgeworld? The admech have an arrangement with the guard, not individual worlds.

Exclusive trade rights, raw materials, criminals for servitors, etc.

This leads me to wonder if the planets best troops are always sent to the tithe. I believe Imperial Law only requires a body of troops be provided for the guard. Do Imperial Governor have to send their best or can they send any of their troops that are equipped properly?

Dakkagor
01-06-2005, 23:33
I think it would depend. I think the imperium tends to "skim from the top", as seen in Gaunts ghosts. Its arguable that the ghosts where the best that Tanith had to offer, hence they were chosen. I imagine if the planet Xion kept sending the officio munitorim gutter sweepings, dregs and penal legion fodder, planet Xion would expect to fall down the Munitoriums lists of targets to defend in case of ork/tyranid/chaos invasion. So its probably in a worlds best intrests to tithe good, solid regiments to the munitorium, if not the best on offer. Some worlds only export seems to be the Imperial guard (cadia, catachan, Valhalla and Mordia, for instance) so these worlds would probably levy all qualities up from trained private to l33t ninja special ops guys.

Morgan Keyes
02-06-2005, 15:05
There are seem to be just as many worlds that give the Guard their dregs. Case in point, the Salvar Chem-Dogs. Scavengers and criminals, motivated by the promise of keeping what they loot and avoiding being sent back to Salvar. Then you have regiments like those from Necromunda filled with ex-gangers. Some former conscript militia absorbed by the Guard, some are like the Chem-Dogs, criminals whose punishment is to be given over to the Guard.

As far as the Tanith "First and Only", the Imperium got lucky perhapes that the only regiment Gaunt could save had so many fine individuals in it. The Ghosts are also so good due to some very fast OJT.

Barbarossa
02-06-2005, 15:27
Well, the Savlar cham-dogs come from a prison world. I guess they are actually the most hardy and aggresive fighters their world has and while they are dregs in a general sense, they might be considered the best of the best of Savlar.

Rich
02-06-2005, 15:37
As far as the Tanith "First and Only", the Imperium got lucky perhapes that the only regiment Gaunt could save had so many fine individuals in it. The Ghosts are also so good due to some very fast OJT.

wasn't the tanith first and only formed from the remnants of three regiments? this would suggest to me that those who survived the destruction of Tanith were either hardy, resourceful, lucky or a mixture of all three - which is one of the other reasons why the tanith are a good regiment.

As far as PDF is concerned, I think its more a case of numbers than standards, except when inducted as part of Imperial Guard levies. Most PDFs have worse training, equipment and also lack basic experience when compared with their IG counterparts, and this is mostly (I would imagine) due to the planetary governors penny pinching - providing x number of troops as it equates to the planetary population, but not bothering to pay for the proverbial cd player.

Morgan Keyes
02-06-2005, 15:37
Well, the Savlar cham-dogs come from a prison world. I guess they are actually the most hardy and aggresive fighters their world has and while they are dregs in a general sense, they might be considered the best of the best of Savlar.

A fuller background for the Chem-Dogs is in the 03 Chapter Approved. They pretty much levied them enmass, as opposed to picking the best. Certainly hardened fighters come out of such a group, and alot of them, but "most ruthless cutthroat convict" does not translate into "good soldier", and quite often the opposite. But Armaggedon is one way to cull the chaff from the wheat, those not adapting dying. But certainly not "the cream of a world's PDF".

Morgan Keyes
02-06-2005, 15:41
wasn't the tanith first and only formed from the remnants of three regiments? this would suggest to me that those who survived the destruction of Tanith were either hardy, resourceful, lucky or a mixture of all three - which is one of the other reasons why the tanith are a good regiment.

No. Commisar Gaunt only had hours load what was on the Founding Fields when a Chaos battlegroup dropped into the system. They weren't hardy or resourceful for it, just damn lucky. The Imperium was fortunate that the troopers of Tanith are hardy and resourceful as a matter of course.

Minister
02-06-2005, 16:02
The Savlar regiments are a special case, more of a penal unit than a true Guard force. It is not unknown to recruit such regiments from penal colonies.

Reguards the Necromundian regiments, these underhive scum ARE the PDF. The largest and most powerful gangs are given leave by the government to run their sections of the underhive, and so grow and prosper. From the best of these (highly obidient hardcases to a man) the Guard are drawn.

worldshatterer
02-06-2005, 16:11
on equipment- from what i remember of rogue trader fluff the reason the lasgun is the standard weapon of the imperium is not its awesome power or reliability, its the fact that it can be built with just about anything . Lasguns made from iron and wood might take longer to manufacture and lack the advanced features of the rifles produced on more developed worlds- but they still do the job . So feral pdf's should be able to scrounge up quite a few las rifles, its just their culture and training that makes them less reliant on advanced ranged weaponry .

Sai-Lauren
02-06-2005, 16:41
wasn't the tanith first and only formed from the remnants of three regiments? this would suggest to me that those who survived the destruction of Tanith were either hardy, resourceful, lucky or a mixture of all three - which is one of the other reasons why the tanith are a good regiment.

Kind of, but not quite, some of the regiments had already started loading when Tanith was attacked, but all the armour and the officers were still ground side. The survivors were those who had already been loaded onto the transport or were in transit, plus Gaunt and Milo who were on the last shuttle off.

Rawne and Corbec were both grunt troopers, and along with Milo, were chosen by the rest of the troops to approach Gaunt after the escape from Tanith, he made them officers as they were obviously both natural leaders.

Putting aside dramatic necessity, the Tanith are an elite regiment because they're usually allowed their head to do things the way they want, meaning they can play to their strengths (the assault on the fortress at the start of Ghostmaker - their first action, and the raids into no mans land of Straight Silver), they're well trained, have good officers who appreciate the input of everyone around them (in Guns Of Tanith, at one point Caffran's passing orders around Rawne because he can see what's going on and Rawne can't) and won't just throw their men away in a meat-grinder for the sake of it, and have nothing else to lose and so very much to possibly gain.

I've just started reading 15 Hours, and (assuming it's canonical) it seems like the tithe for guard is done randomly from those who are of suitable age to be recruited. Most likely they'll tithe more than they need so they can weed out anyone who's incapable of serving. Some would be labourers, some farm hands, some clerks, and so on, whilst the odd PDF member would be transfered in to act as sergeants and corporals.

IMO, it's more likely that the PDF would be more like a volunteer force on most worlds, like say the UK Territorial Army. Only the most populous worlds, or those where there are internal conflicts on going would actually have a standing PDF, probably as something like national service supporting a smaller, full time military. Armaments would be what the troops could reasonably maintain, whether that's las weapons, slugthrowers or rocks and sticks.

Adept
02-06-2005, 17:20
Just on a side note, I would imagine that hive worlds would be some of the least valuable worlds to the Imperium. All they really have is warm civilian bodies, and there are plenty more where they come from. Agri worlds and forge worlds would be far more important. If you lose a hive world, you only really lose a few billion mouths to feed. If you lose an agri world, you lose the ability to feed many, many billions of people, including the IG regiments. Same goes for forgeworlds. If an important one of them goes down, you lose manufacture and repair capabilities for the IG and the Navy in the area. Certainly more disastrous than losing a few billion untrained useless civilians.

Sai-Lauren
03-06-2005, 08:56
Just on a side note, I would imagine that hive worlds would be some of the least valuable worlds to the Imperium. All they really have is warm civilian bodies, and there are plenty more where they come from. Agri worlds and forge worlds would be far more important. If you lose a hive world, you only really lose a few billion mouths to feed. If you lose an agri world, you lose the ability to feed many, many billions of people, including the IG regiments. Same goes for forgeworlds. If an important one of them goes down, you lose manufacture and repair capabilities for the IG and the Navy in the area. Certainly more disastrous than losing a few billion untrained useless civilians.

Sorry, but hive worlds are MASSIVE manufacturing resources. Whilst they may not produce tech to the level of the forge worlds, the sheer amount they can produce put the forge worlds to shame.

Why do you think the imperium sent so many regiments, titan legions etc to Armageddon? For a combined holiday and seminar, complete with pep-talks, powerpoint presentations and half-day workshops? :p

Adept
03-06-2005, 10:13
Sorry, but hive worlds are MASSIVE manufacturing resources. Whilst they may not produce tech to the level of the forge worlds, the sheer amount they can produce put the forge worlds to shame.

Why do you think the imperium sent so many regiments, titan legions etc to Armageddon? For a combined holiday and seminar, complete with pep-talks, powerpoint presentations and half-day workshops? :p

To sell more models, materials, and generate interest in the 40K hobby.

A hive world would certainly be heavily industrialised, but if one goes down, it certainly wouldn't put much of a dent in regional manufacturing output unless it is the only supply world in the sector. Certainly not as important as an agri-world, which billions of people depend upon for life.

In short, my position is - If a hive world goes down, the IG, the Chapters and the Navy can still fight to full or near full effectiveness. If the agri worlds and forgeworlds go down, the forces of the Imperium are effectively crippled.

The only time a hive world would take top priority is when it is also an important manufacturing centre.

Edit: I certainly used the word 'certainly' a lot in that first paragraph.

Sai-Lauren
03-06-2005, 10:31
To sell more models, materials, and generate interest in the 40K hobby.

Hmm, didn't think of that :p

Ok, what's the fluff reason behind Armageddon?



A hive world would certainly be heavily industrialised, but if one goes down, it certainly wouldn't put much of a dent in regional manufacturing output unless it is the only supply world in the sector. Certainly not as important as an agri-world, which billions of people depend upon for life.

The only time a hive world would take top priority is when it is also an important manufacturing centre.

Shifted this last paragraph up, as they're related.

As I said, Hive Worlds are essentially huge factories. They are the most important manufacturing centres in their sector. Forge worlds may produce huge amounts of heavy equipment, but the hive worlds basically produce everything else, from lasguns to toothbrushes.



In short, my position is - If a hive world goes down, the IG, the Chapters and the Navy can still fight to full or near full effectiveness. If the agri worlds and forgeworlds go down, the forces of the Imperium are effectively crippled.

Well, if you lose a hive world, then you can carry on as normal, true. But if you lose a forge world, or an agri-world, then you can do so as well, for example, how long would it take for this years harvest to reach it's destination?

The real problems come further down the line when you start to run out of whatever that world produced. No matter what that world was, you're going to need it at some point.

As an example, one of Armageddon's main products is Chimeras. Lose Armageddon, and your mechanised infantry is having to walk everywhere in 6 months time (or they're murdering the regimental expense account on taxis to the front line). That's no where near enough time for a bureaucracy as monolithic as the imperium to divert chimeras from another production facility, or retool other facilities or build more to take production over. Even if they do, they've still got to ship them to where they're destined for.

Easy E
03-06-2005, 17:21
on equipment- from what i remember of rogue trader fluff the reason the lasgun is the standard weapon of the imperium is not its awesome power or reliability, its the fact that it can be built with just about anything . Lasguns made from iron and wood might take longer to manufacture and lack the advanced features of the rifles produced on more developed worlds- but they still do the job . So feral pdf's should be able to scrounge up quite a few las rifles, its just their culture and training that makes them less reliant on advanced ranged weaponry .

Hmm, you are correct that the lasgun is the easiest and most relaible tech available. I seem to recall reading that the battery packs can be recharged by tossing them into a fire or direct sunlight. I also seem to recall some BFG background about a warship being built around from a feral world so they must have some manufacturing abilities.

However, the cost of actually gearing the primitive economy into making las guns and then distributing them may not be worth it via-a-vis the normal output of the community.

To summarize the posts thus far:

PDF do not have strict guidelines as to their organization and equipment
The best PDF troops are not always sent to the IG
Local varients on equipment are acceptable

Questions still to be answered:
Do PDF include local system defense craft?
What relationship do PDF have with arbites and local law enforcement?

Sojourner
03-06-2005, 17:28
Recall also that you can no longer raise vast armies from hive worlds if you don't control them anymore. And they are truly vast - a billion at a time wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Minister
04-06-2005, 00:36
The local commander may, at his option, purchase or build in-system craft for his planet's defence and for the policing of trafic. Indeed, in the reasonably prosperous systems, he would be concidered as having derilicted his duty if he did not make some concesion to spacebound combat. Most of these would be equivelant in size to large boarding shuttles, having limited drives and being restricted to opperating off of orbital bases. the largest might approach the size of Imperial Navy frigates (in BFG terms they are covered by attack craft from orbital launch facilities and the catch-all entry for "system ships"). Warp-capable warships would be a big no-no.

Planetary law enforcment is, again, entirley at the Governor's option. Many will have a 20th century style police force as well as the PDF, some will have feudal lords with their own private peacekeeping forces suplimented by an elite guard, some may be totalitarian police states. In any case, the Arbitrators are a cut above, responsible for ensuring that Imperial Edict is carried out, not for enforcing the lower laws except when such matters infringe on the world's contributions to the greater Imperium.

Easy E
08-06-2005, 04:19
It seems to me that Adeptus Arbites are on every world at some level. Could the Arbites dictate on behalf of the Imperiumthe quality of PDF and the qulaity of PDF troops that can be tithed? They would be the eyes and ears on planets to make sure that the Tithe did not in fact get the dregs of the PDF.

What percentage of a planet's population would be PDF on a feral world? Industrial world? Hive world? Mining world? Agri world?

Darius Rhiannon
08-06-2005, 05:55
Everybody must keep in mind the following. The PDF is the Imperial Governors way of keeping control.

This suggests that if he wants to remain in control, he would have to have a good PDF to fight off other contenders for his position. Hence, PDF's would be well enough equipped to quell the local population.

On the manufactre of Lasguns on a Feral World. If they do this, I would assume the crafting of the Lasgun would be akin to a rite of passage.

On a Feral world, almost all the warriors would be part of the PDF. An Agri World would likely only have a small PDF force, but a large IG Garrison, likewise the mining world, this is of course depending on their relative value/importance. A Hive World could have a potentially vast PDF,

milmot
10-06-2005, 04:09
I'm guessing on developed worlds, PDFs are basically same as guard, except they are missing the large support weaponry such as artillery and tanks. They would probably have a few tanks, but not in the large numbers required by the Guard. As these heavy pieces of equipment are not really need in quelling unrest, and are prob difficult/costly to maintain (since its coming out of the governor's pockets).

On the hive world importance note. Hive worlds became hive worlds because there was some sort of importance to it that would require a large population. Whether this be that the hive world sits on a major trade route, is the capital of the sector, is the only industrialized world in the area. So if the Imperium loses the hive world, they would have lost a strategically important world (for whatever the reason). So it would be in their best interest to reclaim it.

Easy E
29-07-2005, 04:23
A bump and a question!?!

What percentage of the planet's population would be PDF on a hive world? Industrial world? Civilized world? Feral World? Agri world? Waterworld (huh?)?

What percentage of the PDF would be tithed to the IG based on the palnet types above? how often would they be tithed?

Philosophical Aun
29-07-2005, 08:30
What percentage of the planet's population would be PDF on a hive world? Industrial world? Civilized world? Feral World? Agri world? Waterworld (huh?)?

As has been stated... it depends on how paranoid the Governor is, and how great the threat to the world is! I have no difficulty in seeing 5-10% of the population being raised in times of trouble, but that would be for times of War.


What percentage of the PDF would be tithed to the IG based on the palnet types above? how often would they be tithed?

Somehow, 10% haunts my memory. I do believe I've read something like it.

Barbarossa
29-07-2005, 09:19
Yup, the upper 10% go to the IG IIRC.
And the percentages how much of the population serves in the PDF will vary widely. You have to take into account how much standing soldiers a world can support and how much it needs. An agriworld on the border of an ork empire will have many times the PDF of an equally sized agri world without any xenos withing 2000 light years.
Then there are those worlds who pride themselves on their military traditions. Those would have a bigger PDF than they would otherwise need, maybe with everyone having served in the military for some time in their life.

Sai-Lauren
29-07-2005, 10:42
10%? If we take present day earth as an example, that would be 600 million people inducted to the guard (which is roughly twice the population of the US) - or somewhere close to 60,000 regiments (assuming 10,000 per regiment). :eek: Plus, as it's the most able bodied who would be taken, the people that are left would be mostly the elderly, infirm, and children - and that's really good breeding stock for the future. :rolleyes:

Even if we say 10% of the target group (healthy adults between the ages of 18 and 40), you're still going to be looking at say 80-100 million people as a potential recruiting pool, and being able to found at least 800 regiments - half that if you only take males. And that's just plain old Earth, if you start thinking of hive worlds, then the number of regiments that are produced would be utterly ridiculous, you'd have things like the 4,321,938,273,132nd Necromundan infantry out there, who all have to be clothed, armed, trained, fed, shipped to the next warzone etc.

Even 1% is a scarily large number of people.

Philosophical Aun
29-07-2005, 11:24
10%? If we take present day earth as an example, that would be 600 million people inducted to the guard (which is roughly twice the population of the US) - or somewhere close to 60,000 regiments (assuming 10,000 per regiment). Plus, as it's the most able bodied who would be taken, the people that are left would be mostly the elderly, infirm, and children - and that's really good breeding stock for the future.

I didn't say 10% of the population would be inducted into the Guard! :)

I said that 5-10% of the total population could probably be conscripted into the military machinery in times of war, which is very different. The standing PDF, from which the Guard would be raised, would be much lower. :)

The 5-10 wouldn't be just infantry, they'd be handling logistics, administration, orbital defences... maintinance, etc.

Sai-Lauren
29-07-2005, 11:53
I didn't say 10% of the population would be inducted into the Guard! :)

Sorry, that'll teach me not to read the whole thread. ;)

But even 5% at times of war is a lot, unless you start counting all those making munitions, uniforms and other materiel, serving in things like ARP units, fire control, medical and related services and so on.

Laspistol
31-07-2005, 04:52
Well, I hate to say it, but the IG has traditionally taken around 10% of a planets population. It's been in a lot of the fluff since at least 2nd edition, and page 6 of the 3rd Ed. IG Codex contains the line;

"As Commander of Landor IV, I shall make availiable ... no less than one part in ten of the armies of my realm s for the prosecution of such wars as decreed by the Servants of the Emperor."

It's normal for a country on earth to militarize about 2% of its population at any one time, and this figure often only goes up to 5-10% in times of war. So, it's a good rule of thumb that a PDF would be about 2% of a planets entire population, equiped as the Lord saw fit within the provisions of his Imperial Mandate to "raise such fleets and armies as are needed to fulfil this duty."

Now, in that mandate it says "A body of troops sufficient to defend the planet from invasion." We have too look at what sufficient defence constitutes. Rebelion and Xeno attack would be the two primary concerns. Planet-to-planet warfare is frowned upon in the Imperium, so being attacked by a neighbor is not as big a concern.

So, that said, I would imagine a Lord would have to equip any PDF he would raise well enough to put down his populace with ease and speed, and fight off any Orks/Tau/Eldar/Whathaveyou. This would mean by-and-large trying to maintain as close to IG standard as possible.

Do you remember the pages 28 and 29 from the 3rd Ed. Codex ? It shows the forces of many worlds and described the fighting styles of many. Also, the regiments shown in the back of the new IG Dex. support muy theory that any good Imperial Commander is going to do his utmost to equip his forces with the weapons they need to fight, and it won't be with atl-atls and crossbows - if he can help it.

Every world has goods to trade with others. If they a lord needs to get his scruffy, nomadic, bushmen lasguns he can trade the valuable crafts they make for them, or he can get the equipment to manufacture them from the Mechanicus for a price. I can't see it not being in a Lord's best interest not to develop his holdings into at least partially civilized societies in order to fascilitate and economy advanced enough for defence and trade.

Philosophical Aun
31-07-2005, 12:26
Well, I hate to say it, but the IG has traditionally taken around 10% of a planets population. It's been in a lot of the fluff since at least 2nd edition, and page 6 of the 3rd Ed. IG Codex contains the line;

"As Commander of Landor IV, I shall make availiable ... no less than one part in ten of the armies of my realm s for the prosecution of such wars as decreed by the Servants of the Emperor."

Read what you quoted again.

"no less then one part in ten of the armies of my realm"

Which is very different from 10% of the population into the Guard!

Laspistol
31-07-2005, 15:31
Blargh, I must have been drunk. :P

I do remember reading somewhere it was 10% of population, oh well.