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Izural
15-07-2011, 13:32
Hey. I was just messing around with my army list, and looking at magic items when I came across the Crown of Command (Which confers stubborness to the wearer, and thus, the unit hes in).

Now, my core/special and rare choices are set, but I was wondering if its worth taking a master on a cold one, with Heavy armour, Shield Lance and the Crown of Command to make the unit stubborn. This would mean im running 5 CoK's (without a champ) and the Master on a cold one.

Is making CoK's stubborn worth it? I mean, they dont need alot of support (in my mind) and making them stubborn would take away the negative modifiers in combat allowing them to stay there and beat the unit down, or hold for some support.

Just want peoples thoughts ^_^ I'm already running a Dreadlord, a basic BSB master and a Sorceress. Is spending 145 points on a 4th Hero a waste?

-Izzy

tmarichards
15-07-2011, 13:34
Absolutely not. A unit of 5 will die too quickly to benefit from the Stubborn Crown, and big units will do enough damage that they won't need it.

A stubborn Master will also only have at best a 1+ save, and maybe a 6+ ward. Far too easy to kill.

Izural
15-07-2011, 13:42
Ahhh, fair enough. I thought it was a good idea (Yay for noob moment! :D :( )
So, a good CoK unit size would be 7 i'm guessing.

I was thinking of sticking the Crown on my Dreadlord (which I put in my corsairs unit), which means a Stubborn, Frenzy unit? Which means when they take the hits back in combat, they wont suffer bad modifiers and lose frenzy (if they lose combat). Which would put their killing power and stubborness to the level of black guard? :D

(This is me mainly thinking out loud, but ofc I like input from Vets so I don't completely noob out :P)

Lord Dan
15-07-2011, 13:45
Cavalry, and by extension CoK, don't do well in prolonged combats. If after the initial charge you haven't done enough damage to scatter your enemies (which these days is usually only achievable with infantry support), the last thing you want is to hang out for a few more turns clubbing people with the lower end of your broken lances.

I'd recommend spending the points on helping the master/unit deal more damage.

soultaker
15-07-2011, 20:21
Ahhh, fair enough. I thought it was a good idea (Yay for noob moment! :D :( )
So, a good CoK unit size would be 7 i'm guessing.

I was thinking of sticking the Crown on my Dreadlord (which I put in my corsairs unit), which means a Stubborn, Frenzy unit? Which means when they take the hits back in combat, they wont suffer bad modifiers and lose frenzy (if they lose combat). Which would put their killing power and stubborness to the level of black guard? :D

(This is me mainly thinking out loud, but ofc I like input from Vets so I don't completely noob out :P)

Dark elf units generally dont need stubborn, if you're losing combat then the unit probably has a turn to live at best. If you really, really want it take 20 black guard.
Cold one knights you want 10+, preferably 12+ in 2 ranks with the banner of hag graef for ASF.

Lord Dan
15-07-2011, 20:33
Dark elf units generally dont need stubborn, if you're losing combat then the unit probably has a turn to live at best. If you really, really want it take 20 black guard.
Cold one knights you want 10+, preferably 12+ in 2 ranks with the banner of hag graef for ASF.

Don't CoK already have I6? You don't find the banner of Hag Graef redundant?

soultaker
15-07-2011, 20:41
re-rolls and asf every turn is great, 12 CoKs is an expensive unit, sometimes it gets charged/is stupid BoHG is your get out of jail free card.... but yeah redundant in many situations

tmarichards
15-07-2011, 21:05
ASF also let's the Lizards attack first, and gives the unit re-rolls in subsequent rounds of combat. With a cauldron of blood blessing this gives them some serious staying power.

Don Zeko
15-07-2011, 21:09
I usually run a unit of 7 Cold One Knights with full command and no magic banner. I like this size, rather than a big unit of 10-12, because it's cheap enough that you don't need t worry about losing it, but big enough that it can take a couple of casualties while remaining functional and tough enough to inflict a lot of casualties on the charge or even catch a charge from some monsters, brettonian knight buses, etc. In general, I don't see them as needing stubborn, or at least not needing stubborn enough that a master would be worthwhile when you could get 4-5 more knights for a similar points cost.

Lord Dan
17-07-2011, 02:22
re-rolls and asf every turn is great, 12 CoKs is an expensive unit, sometimes it gets charged/is stupid BoHG is your get out of jail free card.... but yeah redundant in many situations
But you've already got re-rolls, and unless you're fighting other elven elite units you're already striking first. In addition CoK are probably the last unit in the army that needs to worry about striking first, as they have the armorsave to absorb any attacks that come in first. I guess my argument is that 35 points could be spent on something to help them dish out more damage, not serve as a fallback for those rare instances where you aren't striking first and NEED to strike first.


ASF also let's the Lizards attack first, and gives the unit re-rolls in subsequent rounds of combat. With a cauldron of blood blessing this gives them some serious staying power.
I guess the lizards striking first is a plus, however with CoK you really don't want there to be a subsequent round of combat.

decker_cky
17-07-2011, 06:01
If you want something to boost CoK in later rounds, I think armour piercing is pretty good. They still have 2 S4 attacks per model which isn't too bad. Should grind through a lot of units.