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Napoleon Blownapart
15-07-2011, 20:39
Hey, I kind of like the idea of "pikemen" lists using a lot of HE spearmen. I know they're no terrible popular, but have any of you had success with them? I was hoping to do a fast , almost "rush" infantry list with them, with 3 blocks of 30 and lots of foot heroes to add in some high S attacks. I have no interest in magic except maybe life buffs and of course the drain magic.

I was also wondering about "lancer" pattern reavers in larger numbers that what people tend to see as the support units.

Anyway as I said I'm looking for other people's experiences and thoughts on this unorthodox build.

Regards,
TV

Jack of Blades
15-07-2011, 21:00
3 blocks of 30? too few. Use 3 blocks of 40 by the least or you'll run out of attacks too quickly which is precisely what you don't want to do with spearmen - them relying on having lots of attacks and all. Deploying them in horde formations of 50 is ideal I'd say unless you want the points elsewhere, especially if you have no interest in magic buffs - with 50 spearmen you can absorb casualties before losing combat prowess and you make full use of yours spears & martial prowess special rule, attacking in 4 ranks. You could go for one unit of 50 and two of 30 or 40, packing the heroes into the smaller units.

IcedCrow
15-07-2011, 21:02
Our high elf player uses 30. It works very well for him.

40 is also good, but I think that 3 blocks of 40 is overkill. Maybe one unit of 40 and a unit or two of 30 next to them.

Pulstar
15-07-2011, 21:03
For this to work you need a lot of mages to give them support. They will need both there offense and defense buffed it they are going stand up elite units.

Lore of Shadows can turn HE spearmen into the best unit in the game. (4 ranks of STR 8 attacks). The debuff's from shadow can also keep them alive as well.

Life can be good for defense, but even with +4 T, the spearmen will have problems with anything with a great weapon. I would almost suggest Light instead. Pha's and Speed of Light may help keep them alive better then the reg or T buff.

Wildform from Lore of Beast can also help.

And you better off running them 5 wide to min attacks back at you.

hobbs3023
15-07-2011, 21:51
Hey, I kind of like the idea of "pikemen" lists using a lot of HE spearmen. I know they're no terrible popular, but have any of you had success with them? I was hoping to do a fast , almost "rush" infantry list with them, with 3 blocks of 30 and lots of foot heroes to add in some high S attacks. I have no interest in magic except maybe life buffs and of course the drain magic.

I was also wondering about "lancer" pattern reavers in larger numbers that what people tend to see as the support units.

Anyway as I said I'm looking for other people's experiences and thoughts on this unorthodox build.

Regards,
TV

Yes... it works great w/ Shadow's razor... no guarantees you'll get it off, but works wonders

Jack of Blades
15-07-2011, 21:57
And you better off running them 5 wide to min attacks back at you.

Running them 5 wide to minimize return attacks?! Blood for the blood god :evilgrin:!

Napoleon Blownapart
15-07-2011, 21:59
Thank you for your replies.What kind of support units do people run, if they are using large spearmen blocks as their core tactic?

Regards,
TV

decker_cky
15-07-2011, 22:38
Eagles are always the first support unit to add.

The bearded one
15-07-2011, 22:47
Spearelves become absolutely insane when you cast the buff spell "flaming sword of rhuin" on them from the lore of fire. +1 to wound ftw!

decker_cky
15-07-2011, 23:27
Even more insane if you cast flaming sword and occam's mindrazor. Autowound, -5 to armour saves against anything T6 or lower ftw.

Without mindrazor, I think wyssan's wildform is a much better spell for them since it's guaranteed and improves survivability.

With HE though, you can have one guaranteed mindrazor (seerstaff) and one 95% chance of mindrazor (L4 mage) along with D3+1 power dice, so I'd take a shot at two mindrazors in the army if I were running 3-4 spear blocks.

Desert Rain
16-07-2011, 00:45
Magic will be essential to keep them alive and killy. For support I'd take some cavalry (DPs and ERs if you have the points, otherwise just DPs) and some shooting. A BSB is mandatory as well to keep them from running away.

winterking07
16-07-2011, 04:50
If you want to go light on magic, I think High and Beasts actually are better lores for buffing spearmen--High because of Shield of Saphery (5+ Ward is great), Beasts because of the Wildform making your infantry tougher and stronger. And you're guaranteed to have those spells, unlike things like the Mindrazor, flaming sword, or lore of Light/Life augments.

As for support units, maximum eagles. Reavers might actually be useful in a list like this--keep them as cheap as possible, and and use them to take care of artillery. But if it comes down to a choice between infantry/infantry-supporting characters and cavalry, I'd recommend focusing your points on the spear blocks.

Rakton
16-07-2011, 06:56
a block of 50 lotheren sea guard is overkill... though i would like to field 3 units of those on the field:)

decker_cky
16-07-2011, 07:43
High elf L2 mages can actually spam wildform well like beastmen can, so I imagine 3 mages casting wildform on 3-4 dice to boost the key unit that turn could work almost as well as it does for a horde of gors boosted by herdstone shamans.

Von Wibble
16-07-2011, 11:49
Even more insane if you cast flaming sword and occam's mindrazor. Autowound, -5 to armour saves against anything T6 or lower ftw.

Without mindrazor, I think wyssan's wildform is a much better spell for them since it's guaranteed and improves survivability.

With HE though, you can have one guaranteed mindrazor (seerstaff) and one 95% chance of mindrazor (L4 mage) along with D3+1 power dice, so I'd take a shot at two mindrazors in the army if I were running 3-4 spear blocks.

Not to mention that lore of shadows has 3 other excellent debuff spells - I'd say its a very good choice of lore in general, but for a spear based army virtually compulsorary.

An army list at 2500 could be something like

L4 mage
BSB
L2 mage

2 units of spearmen (I would go 40 per unit as each casualty really hurts your attacks otherwise)

1 unit of 30 LSG

2 units of 5 Dragon Princes
2 Eagles
1 unit of Ellyrian Reavers
1 Lion Chariot

Tayrod
17-07-2011, 15:51
Just a quick note to the OP: I made a horde of HE spearmen last year (I haven't been able to play them much though, so I'll stay out of the tactical discussion) and the banner poles (I think you get 4 or 5 in every box of 16 spearmen) can work great as a pike if you position them in the back of the unit.
The banner poles are made so that attacthed hand is very low on the weapons shaft, if you add some greenstuff to make the base of the shaft longer, you'll get some really long spears/pikes which when positioned correctly will give the unit a "porcupine" look (like greek hoplites)

EnternalVoid
18-07-2011, 05:44
For size I generally don't take any spear unit smaller then 30+, normally it is 35-40 myself. Generally that gives me enough to take damage and still have the ability to fight back once they get into combat. Now generally I don't take more than 1-2 blocks as I have one of the elite units as well, but so far my spears have more often then not survives or at least did something worthwhile.

That said I am a fan of the lore of shadow for the debuffs and mindrazor so that has allowed my spears to tear monsters and elite units apart.

As already said, if you want to go lots of spears with minimum magic one of the most important things will be to have several eagles. Either to control the direction of enemy units till you are ready or to take out key warmachines as fast as possible. My eagles have rarely let me down *even if they rarely survive the game*. After that it starts to get down to your taste.