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View Full Version : A single wolf chasing down a whole pack of dwarves



Wizzerdrix
17-07-2011, 09:32
So I was playing my vampire counts the other night, against my mate's dwarves. I was fighting his dwarf warriors head on with a skeleton regiment and my vampire in the front rank, and then I had four dire wolves in one of the flanks of the dwarf warriors. We exchange blows and I win the combat resolution. Lost a few skellies but still had plenty left. However, I lost three of the four wolves that were eating the warriors in the flank. The dwarves turned tail and ran, directly away from the enemy with the highest unit strenght (the skeletons with the vampire). I pursued with my skeletons and my lone wolf. The skeletons and the vampire didn't catch the dwarves but the wolf did. One wolf. He still had at least 14 dwarves left. So what should have happened here? Was the wolf not supposed to pursue at all, seeing as it had done a flank charge? And if it was supposed to, was it really fair that one wolf would be allowed to wipe out 14 running dwarves in one swoop?

The bearded one
17-07-2011, 09:35
That wolf kills the entire unit.


Hell, if his side wins and he rolls higher than the losers, that wolf could pursue, overrun and kill 1000 dwarfs in one fell swoop.

If it runs and is caught, it's dead.

Poncho160
17-07-2011, 10:00
That was one hungry wolf!

Ravenar
17-07-2011, 10:07
The dwarves turned tail and ran, directly away from the enemy with the highest unit strenght (the skeletons with the vampire).

Ok so I do not have my book with me, but I do know Unit Strength was taken out this edition. I thought the unit that flees runs away from he uni that did the most wounds? If not, what s the exact ruling; I forget?

Jolly Puggles
17-07-2011, 10:27
One important rule to remember is that the pursuing unit must roll higher on their pursuit roll than the fleeing unit does on their flee roll in order to run them down. If, due to flank attacks, or whatever, the pursuing unit would move further than the fleeing unit, they stop an inch away. See pg.56 for the relevant rules.

Otherwise yes, a single wolf can run down any number of enemy.

Kalandros
17-07-2011, 10:38
Fleeing abom (I know!), single wolf rider declares its charge and eats it up with an impressive 21" reach (: Hero Wolf or Hero Goblin?!

RealMikeBob
17-07-2011, 10:39
One important rule to remember is that the pursuing unit must roll higher on their pursuit roll than the fleeing unit does on their flee roll in order to run them down.

Equal to or higher.

buzz0783
17-07-2011, 10:39
"One important rule to remember is that the pursuing unit must roll higher on their pursuit roll than the fleeing unit does on their flee roll in order to run them down."

Not true. Page 56 of Warhammer Rulebook states that if the Pursuit roll is equal to or higher they destroy the fleeing unit.

Tregar
17-07-2011, 15:49
Yes, it's important to know the difference between "higher" and "equal to or higher", especially when telling people how important it is.

Also units flee from the enemy with the greatest number of ranks (if equal, randomise it).

Ravenar
17-07-2011, 19:13
Yes, it's important to know the difference between "higher" and "equal to or higher", especially when telling people how important it is.

Also units flee from the enemy with the greatest number of ranks (if equal, randomise it).

There it is, thank you. I could not remeber the rule. I knew it was not unit strength though. We had house-ruled whoever did the most wounds sometime ago. One of those run from the peasants or the charging grail knights kind of scenarios.

PeG
18-07-2011, 09:02
You are correct although you must have rolled well for damage to win by combat resolution.

assuming +3 ranks for skeletons + 1 for standard + mus + 1 for flank+ possibly 1 for charge+ x kills

Dwarfs +1-2 for ranks (at least 14 and 15 makes it +2) + standard + mus (havent seen a dwarf warrior regiment without them) + 3 dead wolves + "lost a few skellies"

Jolly Puggles
18-07-2011, 09:36
Yes, it's important to know the difference between "higher" and "equal to or higher", especially when telling people how important it is.

Wow...I wasn't going to rise to this, but seeing as three of you felt it neccesary to point out the difference between "equal to or higher" and "higher" (that whole 1" difference), despite the point of my statement being that the dice roll is what's important to running down your opponent in pursuit and not your position on the battlefield (e.g. by being in a flanking position), I couldn't help myself. Congratulations for pointing out the minor flaw in my statement, despite the fact that I gave a page reference which the OP would no doubt consult and discover for himself. I'm aware that my statement was not entirely relevant to the OP, but given that he mentioned that his Dire Wolf was Flanking the unit, I thought it a relevent point to make. It's an easy mistake to make if you have not thoroughly read the rules or, indeed, are more familiar with previous editions in which battlefield position took precedence over the dice roll itself.

Harwammer
18-07-2011, 10:33
Don't sweat it Jolly Puggles, there is nothing wrong with another poster clarifying what you say, just thank them for their correction and move on.

Tregar
18-07-2011, 13:28
Wow...I wasn't going to rise to this, but seeing as three of you felt it neccesary to point out the difference between "equal to or higher" and "higher" (that whole 1" difference), despite the point of my statement being that the dice roll is what's important to running down your opponent in pursuit and not your position on the battlefield (e.g. by being in a flanking position), I couldn't help myself. Congratulations for pointing out the minor flaw in my statement, despite the fact that I gave a page reference which the OP would no doubt consult and discover for himself. I'm aware that my statement was not entirely relevant to the OP, but given that he mentioned that his Dire Wolf was Flanking the unit, I thought it a relevent point to make. It's an easy mistake to make if you have not thoroughly read the rules or, indeed, are more familiar with previous editions in which battlefield position took precedence over the dice roll itself.

You know the reason why, every so often during a game someone comes up with a rule that is completely wrong, and insists that it is the case because they "read it on the internet"? it's because of people like you, getting stuff wrong and then posting it as fact. And you didn't just make a quick aside about it, you made it the focus of your post, and stated how important it is. And I'm sorry, it may make you feel foolish to be corrected (But it shouldn't! No-one's perfect, end of), but your post REALLY NEEDED to be corrected, and firmly too, so that nobody takes from this thread what you said.

If you can't handle being corrected when you make posts that are explicitly wrong in a rules forum, and take these as personal attacks, then this probably isn't the forum for you. Because every time one of us (myself too- it's happened, recently even ;) ) posts the rules wrongly, if we're lucky, then someone will correct us. And it's really nothing to "rise" to.

Mercules
18-07-2011, 14:44
A unit being "Run Down" after breaking does not equate to every model being killed. It means that group of Dwarves no longer function as a unit, in this case it could be imagined that the single Dire Wolf took down one or two of the Dwarves and the rest of them scattered in all directions. They might all come back together and form up again, but by then the battle will be decided and over.

The bearded one
18-07-2011, 15:22
I like to imagine they all wandered off to hunt some boar and cook dinner.

IrishDelinquent
18-07-2011, 15:48
Nah, they heard it was last call, and so waddled off for a pint.

russellmoo
18-07-2011, 16:34
I have always thought this was a strange and unrealistic mechanic- it was worse in 7th where it was common for a unit of 5 or less cavalry to charge, break, then run down 3 to 4 times their number-

I think what it is supposed to represent is not the unit necessarily being caught and slaughtered but that the pursuing unit chases them and then forces the unit to scatter in every direction making it impossible to reorganize the unit into a fighting force-

On the other hand I've always thought it would be a little better and more realistic if say when a unit gets run down it suffers D6 wounds times the number of models pursuing with no saves of any kind-

This would mean that 5 pursuing 20 could very easily destroy the entire unit, whereas a single wolf or harpy could stand little chance of running down and destroying a monster or entire unit, but 10 or more could- you would get about the same result as current pursuits without the sometimes weird results-

The downsides would be additional playing time, and more complicated rules, as well as further encouraging players to field still bigger blocks of infantry-

enyoss
18-07-2011, 20:53
On the other hand I've always thought it would be a little better and more realistic if say when a unit gets run down it suffers D6 wounds times the number of models pursuing with no saves of any kind-


The rules were actually like this in 3rd edition. If your opponent fled from combat you got `free hacks' when they ran, where each model in the winning unit contributed one automatic hit on the fleeing unit, and if you caught them you got a second round of free hacks. I think you then got more free hacks in following turns as you were essentially still in base contact.

More often than not the net result was that the fleeing unit got wiped out, which is why they streamlined the rules to the ones we have now I guess. So even if it seems pretty silly on the face of it, most of the time it's actually a good indicator of what happens should you factor in more `realistic' mechanics.

Gaargod
19-07-2011, 20:26
Remember, running an opponent's unit down doesn't necessarily killing or incapacitating them. Just putting the enemy out of the fight.
In this case we have to imagine the dwarfs, overcome by fear and finally breaking from combat, seeing and hearing something, anything chasing them - maybe a scream or two as the wolf drags down one of them. Pushed past all sensibility, they separate entirely and scatter - functionally useless for the purposes of the fight. If the dwarfs actually win the battle and they survive, expect quite a few of them to become slayers.

The Total War games also do this quite well, although they can't use a scatter mechanic as above. An enemy unit that flees might rally, but if they're being chased, even by only a couple of men who in normal circumstances they could easily defeat, they keep running, and slowly get hacked down.