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Rama
18-07-2011, 08:11
Heyo everyone ! Just have a instrest in everyones stratgy on Questing Knights . are they worth the points?

Thanks in advance for your input !

Wesser
18-07-2011, 08:18
Some love, others hate em.

Personally I think that always striking las with only a 3+ save hurts. Also their supposed role, aka sustained combat is in doubt as the lance formation means that this is only 6 attacks anyway.

Their improved virtue aint fantastic either in an army that always have to include a BsB, so personally I don't think they are worth the xtra 4pts. compared to a KotR.

Perhaps they might do better in 2 ranks of 5 models for more some more attacks, but that also brings more models into the fight, meaning their save is an even greater issue.


No. I can't see questing knights being useful or otherwise worth their pts.

dragonet111
18-07-2011, 08:47
My gaming group is not competitive, we don't have WAAC players so my opinion is based on a friendly group.

I love them.

I stick my lord and BSB with them, with the banner of defense + the lord + the BSB and the right virtues it works well.
They never let me down, I mean never (probably why I like this unit this much). They are IMO worth their points, but for them to work well you need to invest a lot of points (lord + BSB + at least 7 knights) it's expensive.

I know a lot of players like to use Bretonnian lord as fast monster killer with Virtue of Heroism. I like a Questing lord with Virtue of Knightly Temper.

Rama
18-07-2011, 09:19
Yeah im loving /hating them. i just dont see how they can suvive with +3 save and striking last. maybe i use them wrong .

Ithink maybe in small units focus on flanking and dealing with lesser units , but maybe better just have bigger unit of KotR

Jolly Puggles
18-07-2011, 09:20
The biggest advantage they have over KotR is that they can take a more expensive magic banner...notably the Rangers' Standard...without having to bother the BSB. With the trend towards more terrain on the battlefield, the Bretonnians have suffered more than most other armies due to heavy reliance on cavalry. The Rangers' Standard does something towards rectifying this, giving you a lot more manoueverability.

They also have S:4 profile which, combined with Great Weapons, makes them decent hunters with 2+ to wound most characters and -3 ASM. The fact that they ASL is irrelevant 'cos Brets mostly strike last anyway. For the extra you pay, I think you get sufficient to make it a worthwhile investment. You just have to be a little more careful with them due to the reduced save (compared to KotR...they've still got an awesome armour save compared to most!).

russellmoo
19-07-2011, 00:53
They are great at chopping down tougher infantry, etc, and for taking down those stubborn units that you aren't going to break on the charge-

And it is usually best to reform them after you charge- they also are a great unit to put the crown of command in- as they are good at absorbing a charge-

Jolly Puggles
19-07-2011, 11:38
...as they are good at absorbing a charge-

In fact, they're probably one of the only knight units you have available that you don't mind taking a charge. Knights of the Realm and Errant are great when they get a charge, but I've seen more than one unit fail a charge and be counter charged next turn and in those circumstances, the only thing they have going for them is a tasty Armour Save and a rather lacklustre profile. Questing Knights perform just as well whether charging, charged or locked in combat...well worth the extra 4pts.

Wesser
19-07-2011, 20:35
Except that when they are charged they only get off a measly 7 attacks? Any half decent infantry with halberds or otherwise at Str 4 would see the QK's off easily.

It is ironic that the unit designed for prolonged combat is probably the worst at it.

No brets either break it on the charge or not at all. Thats why its its useful to keep a lance or character on monsterin reserve to add their weight where an initial charge fails to break. Prolonged combat for brets is secondary charges, not QK's

Jolly Puggles
19-07-2011, 22:44
Except that when they are charged they only get off a measly 7 attacks? Any half decent infantry with halberds or otherwise at Str 4 would see the QK's off easily.

Who said anything about fielding them in lance? It's not a requirement, by any means. As you say, fielded in lance makes them vulnerable to charging because they have few attacks when not charging. Fielded more conventionally, for example, in 2 ranks of 5 gives them 11 Attacks (plus horsies!), assuming no losses. Even against S:4 they've still got a 4+/6++ save and 5+/5++ against anything stronger than that. Compared to KotR, who have 3+ and 4+ against similar comditions respectively, it's not so big a difference as all that.

Additionally, even if you have fielded them in lance, those 7 attacks back are still going to be at S:6 compared to the same number of S:3 attacks from KotR or Errants. KotR and Errants don't even get any benefit from wielding Hand Weapon + Shield (as opposed to their lance) because they already have a 6+ Ward from the Blessing.

QK's aren't designed for a prolonged combat or to be charged, they just perform better under those circumstances than their Core Choice counterparts. It's true that they will prefer to get that charge in to stand a good chance of winning a combat but that's just a numbers game more than anything...they're Knights; they're few in number and they cost a lot of points. Against infantry, they need to get kills to win and they can do that whether charged or charging...KotR and Errants struggle and flounder if they don't get the charge.

Wesser
20-07-2011, 07:08
Who said anything about fielding them in lance? It's not a requirement, by any means. As you say, fielded in lance makes them vulnerable to charging because they have few attacks when not charging. Fielded more conventionally, for example, in 2 ranks of 5 gives them 11 Attacks (plus horsies!), assuming no losses. Even against S:4 they've still got a 4+/6++ save and 5+/5++ against anything stronger than that. Compared to KotR, who have 3+ and 4+ against similar comditions respectively, it's not so big a difference as all that.

Additionally, even if you have fielded them in lance, those 7 attacks back are still going to be at S:6 compared to the same number of S:3 attacks from KotR or Errants. KotR and Errants don't even get any benefit from wielding Hand Weapon + Shield (as opposed to their lance) because they already have a 6+ Ward from the Blessing.

QK's aren't designed for a prolonged combat or to be charged, they just perform better under those circumstances than their Core Choice counterparts. It's true that they will prefer to get that charge in to stand a good chance of winning a combat but that's just a numbers game more than anything...they're Knights; they're few in number and they cost a lot of points. Against infantry, they need to get kills to win and they can do that whether charged or charging...KotR and Errants struggle and flounder if they don't get the charge.

Dont see how fielding them like that will help you. Due to the lack of ranks, almost anything will be steadfast against you, and in 2 rounds of combat (before your OK's strike the 2nd time) I'd expect any enemny unit to wipe out that back rank out thus eliminating any advantage to deploying wide.

Sure if you have success with them, then use them. Personally I just dont see the value of an inflexible unit thats not designed for any real role. Also I' tired of seing anything from halberdiers to witch elves knock them off their horses as if they were goblins

Jolly Puggles
20-07-2011, 08:24
Dont see how fielding them like that will help you. Due to the lack of ranks, almost anything will be steadfast against you, and in 2 rounds of combat (before your OK's strike the 2nd time) I'd expect any enemny unit to wipe out that back rank out thus eliminating any advantage to deploying wide.

Sure if you have success with them, then use them. Personally I just dont see the value of an inflexible unit thats not designed for any real role. Also I' tired of seing anything from halberdiers to witch elves knock them off their horses as if they were goblins

I'm not entirely sure where you get the impression that they're going to die in droves. They still have a 3+ armour save. Barring Armour Piercing weapons (which aren't that common), they'll still have a decent armour save against most opponents. Sure they've still got that plaguey low Toughness, but how common are S:5+ opponents? Additionally, even fielded in lance most opponents will be steadfast against you...as I've said, they're knights and that means they will almost always be outnumbered; you can't expect otherwise.

Bitten Black Sheep
20-07-2011, 09:03
Now come on, they are the best looking knights of all our knights. The ladies are always chasing after them.
A blind standard bearer with a really cool standard, a musician playing his lute into battle, a champion about to impale his horse in the flank with his sword, and tremendous backapacks including a mini altar so he can say his prayers.
Whats not to like, of course they are a must take even if you have just got 6 like me.
BTW, even though they have got access to more expensive banners the Gleaming banner is a great buy at 5 points as they often operate outside BSB range on the flanks and are rerolling most tests anyway so this just leaves that first breaktest (usually).

You need to get used to using them, don't use them like other knights and charge in except for small wimpy units. They are there to support the other knights by threatening flanks, clearing light support units, sacrificing themselves in the extreme, follow up charges and providing kills against tough opponents in combat rounds 2+ preferably from the rear or flank.
My unit of 6 really performed well in an 8 game tournament but that was after abysmal performance in a 5 game tournament a week before. I think I learnt how to use them although I was not conscious of it at the time.
It comes down to preferance and style of play. They do give you tactical options not best suited to the other knights and complemnt the other knights well. KoR for the initial charge followed by Questers for the second charge, kills and grind is the ideal to aim for.

Chain
22-07-2011, 00:52
How about spicing up the unit with "Ruby Goblet" ?

Malorian
22-07-2011, 00:57
I like to use 1 or 2 units of them. I find they are a great unit to keep giving a punch after the charge.

I pair a unit of 9 with a unit of 15 knights errant for the ranks (and initial punch).

Jinxies
22-07-2011, 18:17
If you're willing to support the unit then it's absolutely unstoppable, unsupported they're okay if you send them against the right thing.

This is the unit you throw Wyssan's at, this is the unit you Regrow, this is the unit that gets the bonus T. A lance unit supported this way wont do half as good.

Mine have stood their ground against two large blocks of saurus in the front and a steg in the side. They've taken down Steam Tanks and Chosen and Chaos Knight deathstars and Hell Cannons and they're just amazing.

Slayerthane
27-07-2011, 14:40
KotR and Errants don't even get any benefit from wielding Hand Weapon + Shield (as opposed to their lance) because they already have a 6+ Ward from the Blessing.

No cavalry gets the benefit of wielding HW + shield. This is only for infantry.

Jolly Puggles
27-07-2011, 15:20
No cavalry gets the benefit of wielding HW + shield. This is only for infantry.

So it is...you learn something new every day.

Trains_Get_Robbed
28-07-2011, 00:31
Simple answer? Just no. They suck, and will almost decisvely be made on foot in Bret's 8th ed. book.

Malorian
28-07-2011, 00:57
Simple answer? Just no. They suck, and will almost decisvely be made on foot in Bret's 8th ed. book.

:eyebrows:

Trying to determine if that was sarcastic or not...

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 09:44
Best non-warmachine in the book, there I said it. I tailor my army around them and all my opponants who have played me before are terrified of them. They usually make back their point 2 or 3 times during a match and that's not even including the insane amount of damage they soak before even hitting combat

Slayerthane
28-07-2011, 17:34
Reading this thread has convinced me to go and buy some now. ;)

I was skeptical because of their 3+ save and striking last because of great weapons, but I guess against really tough units even KotR will be striking last. The lacklustre armor save is improved by the ward save so I guess that should also be a minor concern.

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 17:46
And remember, you still get the full save against shooting since they actually have shields :)

some_scrub
28-07-2011, 17:57
Best non-warmachine in the book, there I said it. I tailor my army around them and all my opponants who have played me before are terrified of them. They usually make back their point 2 or 3 times during a match and that's not even including the insane amount of damage they soak before even hitting combat

What do you do to make them soak more so much damage? Defensively aren't they the same as KoTR?

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 18:13
In a small local tournament In which I knew I'd be up against an Empire Gunline, Dwarves and O&G with lots of Warmachines as well as Lizardmen and WoC I ran Banner of Defense and Ruby Goblet in it as well as my Life prophetess... 2+ ward vs high str magic, 4+ vs warmahcines and never wounded on better than 3+. Inevery game that unit took out near or above 50% of the enemy force. 2250pts tournament btw. Never lost the unit and never had to hold it back ;) it just tore through everything xD

Now I usually just throw buffs at them( I sometimes run as many as 3 wizards)

Wesser
28-07-2011, 18:14
Best non-warmachine in the book, there I said it. I tailor my army around them and all my opponants who have played me before are terrified of them. They usually make back their point 2 or 3 times during a match and that's not even including the insane amount of damage they soak before even hitting combat

Now there's a joke. Funny :)

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 18:19
I dunno mine consitently outpreform everything except my Trebuchets... Sometimes the M@A get lucky and come close after some Wyssan buffs ^ . ^