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Rama
18-07-2011, 10:27
I'm having a hard time making a 2400 pt. army and not many list are on boards.

Does any one have a list they would like to share or just some sound tactical advice.

Just seems like their is little info available .

Thank in advance for your ideas, lists and input !!!!

The Low King
18-07-2011, 11:05
if you want specific stuff on dwarfs go to http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/

The General consensus is Great weapons and warmachines are the way to go.

a couple of runed up cannons (forging+burning) to take out monsters, a grudgethrower (accuracy and penetrating) to kill infantry blocks and an organ gun or two thrown in is a good combo.

Hammerers are also really good for their price.

PeG
18-07-2011, 12:42
runed grudge throwers...... how many depends on how mean you want to be

OldMaster
18-07-2011, 13:09
lol

Yes, Grudge Throwers are fun =)
But you don't have to be a ranged specialist. Dwarves' combat prowess has increased a lot with the new charge rules.

Gotrek
18-07-2011, 18:46
dwarfs can slap it out with anyone except the most melee oriented armies such as beastmen or warriors but against such forces you have to rely on your firepower to lower their effectiveness before you enter close combat and runed up grudgethrowers are probably the most efficient warmachine at this point of time on this game so use and abuse them. if you wanna go realy nasty you take up 3 runed up grudgethrowers and a master engineer and you can instruct your opponent on the efficiency of dwarfs by droping rocks on his head.

my own list (2500pts) involves 1 master engineer general, 1 runesmith, 1 tank BSB, 3x grudethrowers, 2 cannons, 1 organ gun, 2x 30 warriors with GW, 30 hammerers and 20 rangers and it's been remarkably efficient. just don't expect that much fun with this list couse you just skip 3 of 4 phases in the game and i've had a game vs lizardman for example where the enemy lost without even having any melee combat during the game.

other lines of thought when building lists can work on this or that situation but they'll loose out against a significant array of opponents.

GreySeerZ
18-07-2011, 20:17
I almost feel that Dwarfs are "GOOD" broken. The number of games I've won at any point range just by spamming war machines and warriors with great weapons is ridiculous. Cannons, organ guns, grudge throwers, warriors with great weapons, 2 x runesmiths, maybe a couple dragon slayers for war machine protection and your good to go.

Sadly I sold my army, I got tired of winning with the same list, and sadly, diversifying the list usually made games much more difficult. Not saying that its true for everyone, but compared to a cannon gun line, most other builds just aren't that great...

Rama
18-07-2011, 21:12
Great input guys. Its nice to hear skilled advice.

Thx for the ideas . Keep em coming =]

The bearded one
18-07-2011, 21:18
How come the title ("Broken or not?") doesn't seem to match the content of the first post? :p

GotrekFan
18-07-2011, 21:48
My list may not be the most competetive, but it works for me & I like it - we play 2,400pts.

Runelord with Anvil - Master Rune of Gromril & Master Rune of Balance.
Hard to kill - high T, 1+AS & 4 extra Dispel dice while stealing 1 off the opponent.
BS with Rune of Stromni, Rune of Battle, Rune of Guarding.
CR booster with 5+ward, sits in the middle of the line to support the infantry.
Thane with Rune of Brotherhood (Rangers), Rune of Stone & GWpn with Rune of Kragg & Snorri.
Now that Rangers are useful again this guy goes on the offensive or helps plug holes in the deployment that your opponent may try to exploit & his 3xS6 attacks will be hitting most enemies on 2+.

14 Rangers with command & throwing axes - now that Dwarfs con move through terrain now, Rangers are useful again...especially with throwing axes. Move to within 8" fling the axes, then move the unit to charge with the Anvil. If it fails & the unit is able to counter charge, then you'll get a S&S and will be able to provide some combat res - & the Thane is there too.
24 Warriors with Gwpn, shield & command, joined by BS. Staple of the army, a good solid unit that hold well for me.
20 Longbeards with Gwpn, command & Rune of Slowness. This is a small unit, but tough with real hitting power & decen combat res. With the new random charges, the Rune of Slowness has become even more useful, just be sure to keep close to the BS to get the benefit of Stromni's Rune
20 Quarrelers with command & shields. Deploy 10x2 for high output Xbows. When about to be charged, reform (&move) deep and either charge or shimmy back thanks to the Anvil.
15 Miners with Command & Steam Drill. I love 'em as my opponents get a bit cagey until they show up & with the Anvil can show up & be in combat in the same turn
Organ Gun - never leave home without one
G Thrower with rune of Penetrating
Cannon w/ Rune of Fire & Forging

This list has won more that lost against new TK, other Dwarfs, Skaven, VC & Lizards.

That's my 2cents, a mix of firepower & combat, movement & steadfast, fighty & anti-magic.

calnen
18-07-2011, 22:40
In my experience, lists like Gotrek's work best.
Runelord general with MRO Balance,
Defensive BSB,
2 Cannons with RO Forging,
2 Grudge Throwers with accuracy, penetration and engineers,
An Organ gun or two
A couple of units of 30 or 35 warriors with great weapons,
30 or 35 hammerers (if you can afford them out of the special allowance)
Add scouts to taste (personally I love 'em.)
Make sure someone has the MRO Challenge. It's simply awesome.
Done.


Alternatively, I've had tremendous fun - but variable success - with a scouting/ninja list.
Take Bugman, 2 big hordes of scouts with gt weapons and throwing axes, a runesmith, and miners. I find this only really works in smaller games (1500ish) where the whole army can deploy as scouts - it's great fun :)

Rama
18-07-2011, 23:02
Sorry I should have said the Dwafs seem broken to me personally.

Ive had a streak of losses and looking for insight. Yet with all this great advice im getting pumped to play them and not shelf them. Sorry for confusion. =]

The Low King
18-07-2011, 23:34
Some lists can be very hard to beat with dwarfs, my mate is a big fan of a dual hydra +Unkillable dreadlord+ lots of magic list and i find that a lot of 'good' lists suggested just dont cut it.

What you should do is build a basic framework based on advice (Runelord, cannon, grudgethrower, organ gun and block of hamerers) and tweak it from there every battle until you have a list that feels nice rather than just powerful (you will actually do better).

Personally, my Opponants like using a lot of terrain and do some sneaky placements (a line of buildings in the middle of the board or a forest on that nice hill isnt very friendly) and my cannons frequently let me down so my list has evolved into much more of a combat list (a killy Lord!!!!).

Just play around with units and eventually you will find something you like.

Jericho
19-07-2011, 01:20
If your opponents place a line of buildings on the center of the board every time you play Dwarfs, it's time to get new friends or start playing with random terrain generation. You shouldn't be trying to ******* your friends over before the game even starts, and the random terrain generation rules help prevent this sort of thing.

The Low King
19-07-2011, 01:35
i know, the woodelf player tries to put a forest in my side so he can use moonstone of the hidden ways with his wardancers....dark elf player did that building thing once but after that game realised that it wasnt nice (well, after me giving him dirty looks the whole game) so now just hides his hydras behind a building until my cannons are dead (not that they ever kill anything anyway).

russellmoo
19-07-2011, 01:46
Here's a basic structure for a dwarf army that will do well-

2+ dispel dice (either runelord(s), or 2+ runesmiths)

You need 3 units at size 30+ with great weapons

1+ Grudgethrower(s)

Once you have this core army assembled you can flavor the rest of the army to taste- (Take larger units, take thunderers, a dwarf lord, anvil, slayers, or more warmachines)

The bearded one
19-07-2011, 01:48
Don't forget 1+ cannon with rune of forging

Lord Solar Plexus
19-07-2011, 06:47
Did anyone already mention runed up cannon?

Godeskian
19-07-2011, 11:52
Question for Dwarvish brokenness, I've been told (though don't know from personal experience) that the way Dwarves generate dispel dice (as per their 7th ed army book) has never been errattad to bring it in line with 8th edition generation of dispel dice. I.E. instead of having to roll a 6, they just auto-generate.

Is this true? Can anyone point me to the rules specifying that? Especially since the BRB does say that Army book rules trump BRB rules.

The Low King
19-07-2011, 13:54
It is true. In the dwarf army book under the runelord and runesmith info.

Its not broken, its fair, we are the anti-magic army.

Godeskian
19-07-2011, 14:05
It is true. In the dwarf army book under the runelord and runesmith info.

Its not broken, its fair, we are the anti-magic army.

The fact that it allows a Dwarven army to not merely exceed the power dice of an opponent with Dispell dice, but to in some circumstances more than double it seems a little more than merely 'fair' to me.

jtrowell
19-07-2011, 15:35
I have the same problem with my Empire army: the warrior-priests and Arch-lector generate 1/2 dispel dice each, meaning that If I take them in any number I start having more DD than my opponent get PD, and it is not something that should happen so easily in 8th edition.

Worse: it doesn't scale well, as the more point you have, the more extreme you can get with your dispel phase.

I plan myself for my next game with my Empire army to ask my gaming group if we cannot just say that ARch-lector dispels as a level 4 wizard and a priest as a level 2 (includind behing able to generate *one* dispel die each on a roll of 6).

This would make an army without any mage somewhat viable with a normal (but not extreme) magic defense with only priests, and some way to use PD with a few bound spells items and the prayers. In the current system, you fell forced to both take a pirest for the additionnal dice, and a wizard for the static bonus.

The Low King
19-07-2011, 15:36
well...in order to double it at 2400 points (usually) you would have to roll a double 2 or worse...you wont be casting much anyway.

Dwarfs have to dedicate large amounts of points to every battle (usually enough to defend against worse case scenario; Dark elves) in magic defence. if your opponant doesnt take magic (or goes magic light) then all the nice runelords/runesmiths sit there doing nothing the entire game...a waste of 300+ points.

Any other army that takes magic defence still has the ability to have an impact, even with a bunch of level 1 wizards.

So in general, yes we can get more dispell dice than you have power dice, but it blocks more points than it costs only about 50% of the time....so yes, fair

russellmoo
19-07-2011, 15:39
There is no unfairness about it- at all.

There are other armies that can generate extra power dice (High elf banner of +D3 magic dice, or the Slann +1 dice to every spell attempt, not to mention night goblin magic mushroom dice)

Plus having more dispel dice than your opponent just forces them to roll 6 dice at a spell, or use a power scroll-

I actually think that when the new dwarf book comes out they may even increase the dwarfs anti-magic abilities- since as it stands now dwarfs can't stop magic like they could back in 7th.

jtrowell
20-07-2011, 10:45
The problem is not just about fairness, it is that this system scale with the number of characters, it the reverse problem of the Tomb King magics system from the previous book where they still generated power dice for each caster and king/prince, meaning that at low points your magic phase was subpar, and for bigger game you had so many dice that you were able to steamroll the opponent during your magic phase. An unit or ability that can give, an unique bonus of a few PD or DD, like the banner of sorcery or the tomb king casket, I can live with it, provided it is appropriately costed and not an auto-include for its cost (the casket is almost there, but it is still expensive for a warmachine, and with the really good other rare choices, I can imagine playing without it, while the banner of sorcery, with so many HE units being able to equip it, is too much, it should probably cost at least 55 point to make it useable only on a BSB, making it a good choice but not so automatic)

The Low King
20-07-2011, 11:58
The only use of runesmiths is dispell dice...that is all you are paying for

Runelords can also take the anvil but are still almost entirely just the dispell dice.

They cant kill stuff, cant cast spells and cant buff units......

Stymie Jackson
20-07-2011, 14:54
Not totally disagreeing here, but a Runelord can at least be a very tough to kill model relatively cheaply. For a points-denial lord, he's not too bad, cheaper or as same cost as a King, and gives the nice anti-magic.

It's very easy to get a Runelord that gives a 3 die swing in the magic phase, has a dispel scroll, and a 2+ Re-Rollable armor saved coupled with T5, W6 and immunity to killing blow for a bit over 250 points.

Of course, that's barely 'multi-role' by any stretch, but I've had a tournament game where the only things left in my army after a horrid Daemon LD bomb beatdown was the near-unkillable Runelord and BSB. He may have gotten a lot of VP, but he didnt get any for my general and I took the bonus match VP for killing the general of his army. Small victories I guess but many 'mission' bonus points involve keeping your general alive, or killing the enemy general.

Like a King, you probably want him in Hammerers to prevent him from being run down in a lost combat easily. I bailed him from that unit when it was apparent I'd be testing Stubbon on a 4, but in most games he laughs at anything thrown at him. For blood and glory games, he's a good General to have even if he hits as hard as a drunken snotling with one arm.

stinkyslave
22-07-2011, 00:37
thorek anyone? nobody even thinks of him? im shocked.

Malorian
22-07-2011, 02:03
thorek anyone? nobody even thinks of him? im shocked.

Ever since they FAQ'd him for a while there to only be able to use the reroll once (not even sure if it's still in there) dwarf players generally just forgot about him.

Added to that in 8th you really can't slow down units that much since most of the charge will come from dice that he doesn't effect, and units are so big that the damage he does is so minor.

Novrain
22-07-2011, 10:45
"Thorek anyone? nobody even thinks of him? im shocked."

Seriously? Are you living 4 years in the past?

Since the faq change Malorian talks about Thorek is an overpriced, badly runed, and very fragile hunk of metal.

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 00:38
i also find other rare slots amusig : Flame cannon - massive killer - large tamplate, decent range S5d3 wouds, flaming hell.
Gyrocopter - nasty anti weak horde flank shootig flying device. Again - big tamplate, set it up on hordes flank and let the steam go!

sulla
10-08-2011, 04:20
The only use of runesmiths is dispell dice...that is all you are paying for

Runelords can also take the anvil but are still almost entirely just the dispell dice.

They cant kill stuff, cant cast spells and cant buff units......This is the heart of the matter IMO. Other than that dispel dice, they are worthless. At least empiore priests give hatred to their unit.

When Dwarves are redone, I think Runesmiths should lose their free dispel dice. But they should do something else in the army to compensate.

They should be the inspirational heart of the army as well as being able to thwart enemy magic.

Gotrek
10-08-2011, 19:49
i also find other rare slots amusig : Flame cannon - massive killer - large tamplate, decent range S5d3 wouds, flaming hell.
Gyrocopter - nasty anti weak horde flank shootig flying device. Again - big tamplate, set it up on hordes flank and let the steam go!

flame cannon is now treated as a flame thrower from the book. you might get 1 shot during a game if you're lucky for a ridiculous price.

gyrocopter can't march and shoot, marching block was nerfed and is the ONLY template in any army that requires 4+ to hit whatever is under the template.

the only rare worth it is the organ gun.

concerning the dispell dice why is everyone and their mother targeting us about this when empire can do it a lot better (warrior priest spam+lvl 4 caster), cheaper (compare costs of equiped runesmiths to WP) and with extra funcionality (hatred+blesses).

we have to pay a kings ransom for a character whose only function is protect from magic wich he does moderatly well (well, now with the changes to power scroll he can handle it somewhat better).

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 21:02
flame cannon is now treated as a flame thrower from the book. you might get 1 shot during a game if you're lucky for a ridiculous price.

sorry, but, quoting from rulebook "unless otherwise specified, fire thrower has a following profile (profile)". In dwarf armybook there is another profile specified.

gyrocopter can't march and shoot,

Where did u found this rule?

marching block was nerfed and is the ONLY template in any army that requires 4+ to hit whatever is under the template.

Luckily my gaming mates understand, that when all the tamplates don't need a 4+ , this one doesn't as well.

the only rare worth it is the organ gun.

concerning the dispell dice why is everyone and their mother targeting us about this when empire can do it a lot better (warrior priest spam+lvl 4 caster), cheaper (compare costs of equiped runesmiths to WP) and with extra funcionality (hatred+blesses).

that sin has a name - envy:)

we have to pay a kings ransom for a character whose only function is protect from magic wich he does moderatly well (well, now with the changes to power scroll he can handle it somewhat better).

yeah, but still dwarves are the only army with multiple dispel scrolls.

Flash Felix
10-08-2011, 21:10
yeah, but still dwarves are the only army with multiple dispel scrolls.

No we're not.

Daemons can take multiple Spellbreakers on Heralds of Tzeentch, as well as on the Bloodthirster. The Lord of Change can take a Spell Destroyer (Automatically dispells, 4+ it destroys the spell).

High Elves can take the Sigil of Asuryan (Automatically dispells, 4+ it destroys the spell) in addition to a dispel scroll. So two dispel scrolls, one of which has a spelleating function.

Empire can take the Seal of Destruction (Automatically dispells, 4+ it destroys the spell) in addition to a dispel scroll.

So we're not the only ones. We're just the only ones who normally do, because we can't cast any magic of our own, so the best we can hope for is to stop you doing it.....

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 21:13
.No, i meant that runesmith can take 3 runes of spellbreaking

Liber
10-08-2011, 21:24
Tuttivillus the changes to the flame cannon can be found in the dwarf errata on the gw website. it states that the flame cannon follows the rules for fire throwers as explained in the main rulebook...which means that it lost all of it range, has a higher chance to explode from a misfire, and still costs over twice as many points as other armies flame throwers which now are identical in function.


its a waste of points, most dwarf players (myself included) act as though it doesn't exist.

which is a shame as the model is so nice.

concerning gyrocopters i also don't do the partial hits on the steam template.
as far as the whole "cannot march and shoot" i would also like to be shown where that rule is written. i can't find it.

The bearded one
10-08-2011, 21:31
.No, i meant that runesmith can take 3 runes of spellbreaking

Yes, indeed they can. Infact if we want to we can make so many runic combinations that we can take a score of runesmiths with several dozen runes of spellbreaking. :p

But we can't cast anything. No matter how much we dispel, we pay the price for this magic defence. If you spend 500 points on wizardry and we spend 500 points on anti-magic, and you manage to cast 0 spells, on balance that is perfectly fair, because we've cast 0 spells too but have spent the same amount of points. On balance nothing happens and both sides spend hundreds of points. If you manage to cast 1 spell, just 1 single spell, the balance already tips in your favor. ;)



Concerning the flamecannon and gyrocopter; Gotrek isn't making these things up or misinterpreting rules. The dwarven community has gone through the rules with a fine comb.



flame cannon is now treated as a flame thrower from the book. you might get 1 shot during a game if you're lucky for a ridiculous price

sorry, but, quoting from rulebook "unless otherwise specified, fire thrower has a following profile (profile)". In dwarf armybook there is another profile specified.

It's been errata'd. The flamecannon now follows the rules of the firethrower in the BRB, meaning it loses it's 12" range. It now works just like a skaven warpfirethrower, except costs twice as much and is pretty much incapable of moving. It has such a short range now, that if you are lucky you will manage to fire 1 shot before the enemy is upon you or in combat. Let's hope you don't overshoot on your single shot.



gyrocopter can't march and shoot,

Where did u found this rule?

Standard rules. Noone can march & shoot, except skirmishers. If you really want a reference: Page 26 of the BRB: "It's also worth noting that a unit that has marched in the movement phase cannot shoot missile weapons during the shooting phase". Another reference on page 38, the very first point of the "who can shoot" list.



marching block was nerfed and is the ONLY template in any army that requires 4+ to hit whatever is under the template.

Luckily my gaming mates understand, that when all the tamplates don't need a 4+ , this one doesn't as well.

All other templates were errata'd or FAQ'ed in some manner. The gyrocopter purposely was not. After several dwarf FAQs, that even included the solving of a problem with the gyrocopter that was significantly less obvious than the partials on the template (changing it's movement characteristic from - to 1), the partials on the template are still not removed. There was also an article from a developer (Jervis IIRC) that stated that indeed if partials weren't removed, they were still there.

RanaldLoec
10-08-2011, 21:40
We found a very simple solution early on in 8th ed over 3k we up the pool limit.

Between 4 and 5k we would have a pool of 18 rolling 3 dice for the winds. The dispel dice was the highest and half of the lowest rounding up.

5k and upwards it was 24 on 4 dice the pool. The dispel pool was the highest dice and half of the second highest rounding up.

Not perfect but it stopped Empire or Dwarfs dominating with dispel dice.

That been said Vampires with master of the black arts and demons with power vortex can do the opposite and spam power dice.

I count my self lucky that just because you can doesn't mean my regular opponents will.

Im Empire biased too it been my largest army, I've even owned three dwarf armys in my time. Wish I hadn't sold them all now.

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 21:51
Well, fast cavalry can march&shoot, Flying cavalry can march and shoot. There is no other partials in the whole game system. Wrrrhhammppfff... My fellows are more logical than rule makers/breakers from GW:) Waiting for new Army book then.

But i would still insist on the sentence "unless otherwise specified" concerning flame cannon profile. I know, you were mincing that in other place, but hey, take it on pure logic, why would it cost twice the cost of warpfire, if not because of that range? Warpfire also has D3 wounds, 4+Wsv. near parent unit? I've seen FAQ, it says"F.C. shoot using the fire thrower rules". RULES not Profile.

The bearded one
10-08-2011, 22:14
Well, fast cavalry can march&shoot, Flying cavalry can march and shoot. There is no other partials in the whole game system. Wrrrhhammppfff... My fellows are more logical than rule makers/breakers from GW:) Waiting for new Army book then.

The gyro isn't fast cavalry, and isn't flying cavalry (it's a flying monster, actually, without thunderstomp).

Also the gyrocopter's rules do not say "the template has partials", but rather it explains what partials are ("models only partially covered by the template are hit on a 4+") so it's like it is like any other template but has it's own special rule. To do otherwise would actually be a bit like saying "dwarfs have movement 3!" "yeah, but nothing else in the whole game system has movement 3!" or "longbeards have this special rule 'old grumblers' " "yeah, but nothing else in the whole gamesystem has it!" :p


But i would still insist on the sentence "unless otherwise specified" concerning flame cannon profile. I know, you were mincing that in other place, but hey, take it on pure logic, why would it cost twice the cost of warpfire, if not because of that range? Warpfire also has D3 wounds, 4+Wsv. near parent unit? I've seen FAQ, it says"F.C. shoot using the fire thrower rules". RULES not Profile.

The FAQ says the following:

Page 39 – Flame Cannon, Firing the Flame Cannon
Change to “Flame Cannons shoot using the Fire Thrower
rules. In addition they have the Multiple Wounds (D3) special
rule.”.

The entire 'firing the flame cannon' section is replaced with the fire thrower rules. The "unless otherwise specified"-bit would be applicable if they hadn't replaced that entire section with "Flame cannons shoot using the fire thrower rules. In addition they have the multiple wounds (D3) special rule." You basically have to imagine the entire section in the dwarf armybook doesn't exist, apart from the aforementioned sentence. Had they replaced a part of the 'firing the flame cannon' section in the dwarf book and left the profile that is in the dwarf armybook intact, then it would have a 12" range, but sadly the entire section, including the profile, is gone.

The flamecannon doesn't have a 4+ wardsave near a parent unit by the way, that's a skaven weaponteam rule.




On a related note, I think it would be nice to move this whole "are dwarfs broken?" (as in 'are they overpowered'?) to the general discussion section. I've seen a lot of anti-dwarven sentiments lately, concerning their anti-magic, their warmachines, their runes etc.

Liber
10-08-2011, 22:23
The flamecannon now follows the rules of the firethrower in the BRB, meaning it loses it's 12" range. It now works just like a skaven warpfirethrower, except costs twice as much and is pretty much incapable of moving. It has such a short range now, that if you are lucky you will manage to fire 1 shot before the enemy is upon you or in combat. Let's hope you don't overshoot on your single shot.



Standard rules. Noone can march & shoot, except skirmishers. If you really want a reference: Page 26 of the BRB: "It's also worth noting that a unit that has marched in the movement phase cannot shoot missile weapons during the shooting phase". Another reference on page 38, the very first point of the "who can shoot" list.



it is commonly ignored that the flame cannon also has a higher chance to explode from a misfire than it did previously...granted its not as bad as the loss in range, but seeing as flame cannons can't take engineers or runes, it does hurt.


the gyrocopter "acts like a flying monster"

can a dragon march and use its breath weapon? i don't have the brb with me.

to treat the gyro like say, a unit of dwarf quarrelers doesn't make any sense. the reason a unit cannot march and shoot is becasuse they holster their weapons and just move. the gyro is a flyer, and its weapon is mounted...and doesn't really need to be aimed either.

and there are a ton of exceptions to the whole "cannot march and shoot" rule.

The bearded one
10-08-2011, 22:32
- Fast cavalry can march and shoot. The gyrocopter has a rule similar to the fast cavalry's feigned flight, but it is not fast cavalry.

- Skirmishers can march and shoot. The gyrocopter is not a skirmisher.

- Models with breath weapons can march and still use their breathweapon...




... but you can only use a breath weapon once per game, and the gyrocopter's steamgun isn't a breathweapon either.

- The gyrocopter has no rules allowing it to march and shoot

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 22:37
well, let us hope for new armybook in 2012, like someone in the rumour section mentioned.

Gyrocopters and movement i understand in rule talk, but template special rule sucks so much!
Crap, so it's cannons, grudge throwers & organs only, pity. I like flame cannon model a lot.
But it still can be used in defensive setups, like between two units of infantry or on the hill behind the unit. But defence only.

And i know that only skaven warpfire have 4+ Wsv. :)

The bearded one
10-08-2011, 22:41
Don't forget bolt throwers. A cheap lill' bugger with an engineer and rune of burning can do quite some damage to hydra's and HPAs.

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 22:50
Don't forget bolt throwers. A cheap lill' bugger with an engineer and rune of burning can do quite some damage to hydra's and HPAs.

Ohhhh, you are an old grumbler, aren't You:D

Yes, yes, when modern technic is so unreliable, i will definitly hear what The Elders of our clan has to say. Just let me go to the Guild Workshop and buy two of them;)

Gotrek
11-08-2011, 00:35
concerning the expectations for a new book for dwarfs i recognize that we have a series of units that are simply outdated as has been noticed here but we also have some tricks that are simply unavailable to anyone else. the presence of ranked units as scouts for instance is something unique to dwarfs are of extreme value (some armies are downright built based on this fact, not that they are the most efficient but variety is the spice of life), we have the most oppressive shooting phase in the game with multiple runed GT's that can wipe out unwanted units each phase (3 runed up GT's with a ME will simply make a mokery of anything short of a 3++ chosen deathstar, unless you're one of those that simply "don't like" the idea of 3 GT's), our firepower is the most reliable, we can have more great axes than a lumberjack convention wich in this edition are simply gold.

i am somewhat afraid of what they might make with a new army book to an army that is presently full of excelent choices. it is my view that we are in the top tier when correctly built and while i'd like more variety the shooty army of death backed up by these very solid infantary options make us a force to be respected.
considering GW's history i'd rather have them launch the rest of the books and when the power creep starts again (wich i hope it doesn't) then and only then should we get our book to last us another decade.

abdulaapocolyps
12-08-2011, 06:30
It tales a great posts investment for dwarfs to do that regularly.its odd how people rely so much on magic...