PDA

View Full Version : Sword of Justice



Pawel
18-07-2011, 18:24
Can I reroll wounds from spells with Sword of Justice?

NTJ2010
18-07-2011, 19:22
I can only assume that the sword gives you rerolls to wound normally.
If that is the case, then no.
That would be like using a great weapon to increase the strength of spells by 2.

EDIT: Found it in the Empire Armybook. No you cannot reroll to wound rolls. Magic Weapons are used in close combat and/or shooting phase (depending on if it is a sword or bow or specifically says).

Yrrdead
18-07-2011, 20:19
I believe you can reroll wounds from spells if you bear the Sword of Justice.

While it is true that Magic Weapons are used in specific phases , some effects from these items are independent of said phases. I believe that Sword of Justice is one of these.

Take a look at some other items that operate on a similar principle. These are just in the main rulebook. I'm sure that you can find others that operate in a similar fashion.

Fencer's Blades, Sword of Swift Slaying, Berserker Sword, Shrieking Blade.

These weapons (with the exception of Fencer's Blade) are not giving characteristic bonuses but are granting abilities that are always active. They don't give these abilities only when used. They are "always on".

Now the majority of Magic Weapons that grant characteristic bonuses (Str,etc) only do so when striking or being struck in close combat. But SoJ is clearly not granting a characteristic bonus.

Further clarification on Weapons (Magic and Mundane) can be found in the Warhammer FAQ v1.4 pg 4. Though again this only covers characteristic bonuses.

lparigi34
18-07-2011, 20:33
I should totally disagree... The re-roll applies only to those attacks made with the sword itself (else, also if you would give it to an engineer and make him use a Repeater Handgun he would be able to re-roll those missed wounds too?)

Edit: I stand corrected, "wounds" was meant to be.

Yrrdead
18-07-2011, 20:39
Yes if you gave it to an engineer he would be able to re-roll wounds with his gun....Oh noes. Not hits btw, wounds.

decker_cky
18-07-2011, 20:43
Q: When does a weapon that gives a bonus to a characteristic
give that bonus?(p4)
A: Most weapons, including magic weapons, state when the
bonus is given. For example, a model with the Fencerís
Blades will always have Weapon Skill 10 whilst a model with
a great weapon will only have +2 Strength when striking an
enemy in close combat. When a weapon does not say when
the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when
striking, or being struck, in close combat.

IMO, this FAQ implies that magic weapon effects, unless otherwise stated, only apply when striking or being struck in close combat.

Yrrdead
18-07-2011, 21:30
It is talking about characteristic bonuses only Decker. It is very specific.

decker_cky
18-07-2011, 21:33
So you play sword of hoeth makes all hits wound automatically, for both sides? Having magic weapons work for anything more than the attacks made by that character (except where specified) leads to absurdity.

castellanash
18-07-2011, 21:35
Auto wound weapons clearly state any hits from this weapon though... the re-roll is debatable for being permanent

decker_cky
18-07-2011, 21:40
No...they really don't. Sword of Hoeth:

"All hits wound automatically. Armour saves are modified by the Strength of the bearer."

That's it. Certainly makes a High Elf gunline/fire magic army a lot more effective, unless they come up against a dark elf army full of RXB.

Extending weapons past attacks leads to absurdity. Avoid doing so.

Yrrdead
18-07-2011, 23:25
So you are only Frenzied with the Berserker Sword when striking or being struck?

There are many other examples that I'm sure you can find that don't lead to "absurdity". I think I'll continue to play these like they are supposed to.

Now a more interesting argument would have been Teclis casting Fireball for example.

Scalebug
19-07-2011, 18:23
It is one of those "obvious intent" things... from the FAQ, and simple common sense...
Most weapons have a "hits from this weapon..." type description in their rules, it doesn't mean you should abuse those that do not.

Just say no to powergaming ruleslawyerism, it makes you look like a sad munchkin.

Yrrdead
19-07-2011, 19:26
Ahh I see I was mistakenly looking at the rules. I should have been following intent and your common sense.


Edit- The above is excessively snarky and I apologize. Though I would appreciate an actual argument as opposed to gut feelings and then the obligatory "powergaming ruleslawyerism" followed up by calling me a sad munchkin.

Scalebug
19-07-2011, 22:13
Hmm, ok, while it doesn't carry well it text, I did not mean "you" as in "you, Yrread", but as in "anyone".

But still, it comes down to what is obvious here; it is simply not reasonable to assume it is intentional that some magic swords extend their bonus effect beyond actually hitting someone with them, and some don't, because editorial effort at the GW studio is not exactly waterproof... Don't abuse this fuzzyness, simple as that.

Yrrdead
20-07-2011, 00:40
Yar I get the non abuse but as to magic weapons I believe that you are making an incorrect assumption. Like all magic items they grant a bonus or effect of some type. Full stop. This is the general rule.

More specifically (as cleared up in the FAQ) weapons including magic weapons that grant characteristic modifiers only do so when striking or being struck.

For some reason it seems that you feel that because it is a magic weapon that it only functions in combat. I don't believe that is the case.

If I'm missing obvious rules (which I have done and will do in the future) or even well hidden ones somewhere I'd appreciate some references.


***Now I understand that there are loop holes etc on the rules. I don't attempt to abuse them at all. I enjoy helping people out in the rules front and I really enjoy discussing and reading about said loopholes, ambiguities , etc on this forum. Which has very little to do with how I actually play the game.