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quadraat
22-07-2011, 04:04
Apologies if any of these have obvious answers in the rulebook. My buddy and I have been looking, and we came here because we couldn't find definitive answers to these questions in the rulebook or through searches.

1. If a wizard successfully casts a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix, can they cast additional spells or do they have to focus on keeping it active?

2. Three of my units are attacking one of my enemy's units. If all of their Initiative values are equal, in what order do they attack? Do I choose, or is it simultaneous, or is it something else?

3. If a unit has had a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix cast on them, will additional spells cast upon that unit remove the initial spell's effect?

4. A unit of Skaven with Banner of the Under-Empire is attacking a unit of Swordmasters with ASF. The combat goes banner, ASF, Skaven, but at what point(s) are casualties removed during that process?

5. Can a unit stand and shoot versus a flank charge, or does it have to be in their forward arc? What about if it's only partially in their forward arc? What about if it's a single character taking the charge instead of a full unit?

6. My enemy charges me. I flee, and succeed, but in doing so position myself near another enemy unit. If that unit then charges me (in the same turn), can I flee another time? Or can a unit only flee once per turn?

7. Again, my enemy charges me, this time with a unit that causes terror. I fail the terror test and flee. Can his charging unit immediately pursue?

8. Can two rank-and-file units merge together midway through a battle? If they both have full command (and can merge), what happens when they have two champions, two musicians, and two standards? Would they get any benefits from this?

9. Can a player refuse an opportunity to rally?

10. My infantry unit charges an enemy cavalry unit from 1" away. I don't catch him with my pursuit roll, but our rolls are close enough that we still end up in base contact (or less than 1" away from each other). How does this work?

11. If a unit that can stand and shoot is charged twice in the same turn, can they stand and shoot twice? Or are they only able to stand and shoot once per turn?

12. If a unit rallies, and then reforms, can they still stand and shoot that turn? Does it make a difference if they're skirmishers?

13. A flying unit lands in dangerous terrain at the end of its turn (but otherwise does not move through it). Does it have to take a dangerous terrain test?

14. If a unit causes terror, can it choose whether or not it forces a terror test during a charge? What if they gain terror from an item, is it item-dependent at all?

15. If a unit riding a monster is killed during stand and shoot, what happens to the charge? Does the rider finish the charge? Is it any different if the rider is killed instead of the monster?

16. One enemy unit makes a successful charge. A second enemy unit, which causes terror, charges against my same unit and forces it to flee. Does the first enemy unit get a chance to attack before my unit flees in terror?

17. If a weapon wounds automatically, does the weapon's strength factor into the following armor save?

Akkristor
22-07-2011, 04:56
Apologies if any of these have obvious answers in the rulebook. My buddy and I have been looking, and we came here because we couldn't find definitive answers to these questions in the rulebook or through searches.

1. If a wizard successfully casts a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix, can they cast additional spells or do they have to focus on keeping it active?


He may cast more spells, as long as he knows more spells. Each wizard may only cast each of his spells once per round.



2. Three of my units are attacking one of my enemy's units. If all of their Initiative values are equal, in what order do they attack? Do I choose, or is it simultaneous, or is it something else?


If none of them have ASF or ASL, then the attacks are all simultaneous.



3. If a unit has had a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix cast on them, will additional spells cast upon that unit remove the initial spell's effect?


Nope



4. A unit of Skaven with Banner of the Under-Empire is attacking a unit of Swordmasters with ASF. The combat goes banner, ASF, Skaven, but at what point(s) are casualties removed during that process?


Casualties are removed when the hits are resolved. Any of the Swordsmen killed by the banner cannot attack the Skaven, as they are dead when their turn comes up. Likewise, when the Swordmasters inflict wounds on the Skaven (thanks to their ASF), the skaven who die cannot then fight back against the swordmasters.



5. Can a unit stand and shoot versus a flank charge, or does it have to be in their forward arc? What about if it's only partially in their forward arc? What about if it's a single character taking the charge instead of a full unit?


A unit making a Stand and Shoot reaction makes a normal, if out of sequence, shooting attack against the charging unit. Since a normal shooting attack requires forward ark, so should the S&S. If the unit is only partially in the forward arc, only those models that have the unit within their forward arc may fire.



6. My enemy charges me. I flee, and succeed, but in doing so position myself near another enemy unit. If that unit then charges me (in the same turn), can I flee another time? Or can a unit only flee once per turn?


A unit that Flees! once in the charge phase will have to keep fleeing if it has more charges declared against it.



7. Again, my enemy charges me, this time with a unit that causes terror. I fail the terror test and flee. Can his charging unit immediately pursue?


It can attempt to complete the charge as normal for a Fleeing target, or attempt to redirect with a LD test.




8. Can two rank-and-file units merge together midway through a battle? If they both have full command (and can merge), what happens when they have two champions, two musicians, and two standards? Would they get any benefits from this?


Two units cannot merge, but characters can join units.




9. Can a player refuse an opportunity to rally?


By the rules, no. You make the rally attempts for each of your fleeing units in whichever order you want, but each fleeing unit MUST make a rally attempt.



10. My infantry unit charges an enemy cavalry unit from 1" away. I don't catch him with my pursuit roll, but our rolls are close enough that we still end up in base contact (or less than 1" away from each other). How does this work?


Move the two units until they are at least 1" apart



11. If a unit that can stand and shoot is charged twice in the same turn, can they stand and shoot twice? Or are they only able to stand and shoot once per turn?


Only once.




12. If a unit rallies, and then reforms, can they still stand and shoot that turn? Does it make a difference if they're skirmishers?


I'm not sure i quite understand this. If the unit rallied, and reformed, then the charge phase is already over (You rally/reform at the beginning of the next part of the movement phase, the Compulsory Moves). They can fire in the shooting phase, but they always count as having moved that turn.



13. A flying unit lands in dangerous terrain at the end of its turn (but otherwise does not move through it). Does it have to take a dangerous terrain test?


If it Marched, Charged, Fled, or Persued into the DT, then it takes the DT test.



14. If a unit causes terror, can it choose whether or not it forces a terror test during a charge? What if they gain terror from an item, is it item-dependent at all?


I don't think you can turn Terror on and off.



15. If a monster is killed during stand and shoot, what happens to the charge? Does the rider finish the charge? Is it any different if the rider is killed instead of the monster?


Pg 106, if a S&S kills the mount, the rider attempts to complete the charge normally, using his own movement values and rules instead of the mounts.



16. One enemy unit makes a successful charge. A second enemy unit, which causes terror, charges against my same unit and forces it to flee. Does the first enemy unit get a chance to attack before my unit flees in terror?


No, but they should get a chance to persue/redirect. Remember, first you declare a charge, then the opponent declares a charge reaction. This continues until you have no more charges you wish to declare. Then you roll ranges for each of the charges. In this situation, both units should still be where they were when the charges were declared. if the opponent declares a S&S or Flee! reaction, those reactions are resolved right then and there.



17. If a weapon wounds automatically, does the weapon's strength factor into the following armor save?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, the weapon and wielder's strength weigh in on armor saves with a automatic wounding weapon.

AMWOOD co
22-07-2011, 06:13
That's a lot of questions, but they are direct. Still, I'm only going to give brief answers.

1. Keep casting. See Remains In Play, p36 for details.

2. Simultaneous.

3. No. See p36.

4. After each Initiative step (or effect that occurs 'at the beginning of close combat'). So remove swordmasters after the banner. Survivors attack Skaven. Surviving skaven attack Swordmasters back.

5. Must be in forward arc of any models that wish to shoot. If not all models have the enemy in the front arc, then not all may shoot.

6. Flee again (and again, and again...) as needed.

7. Not pursuit. See p23.

8. No. Never.

9. No. Never.

10. You don't 'pursue' an opponent that flees from a charge. See p23.

11. Once. See p18, There's Too Many of Them!

12. 'That turn'? I don't see how that's possible. They can stand in shoot in the enemy's next turn, certainly (being skirmishers or fast cavalry makes no difference).

13. Yes.

14. No, the enemy must test. Yes, it is fully item dependent (lose the item, lose terror).

15. Try to complete the charge with the model's current movement value. If the rider died, don't forget your monster reaction test at the end of the phase.

16. No. See p23, Mulptile Charges on a Unit.

17. By default, yes. The description of the item/spell/whatever should say so.

quadraat
22-07-2011, 06:21
Thank you so much, guys. I don't know how much time it took you to type that up, but you just saved us so much trouble. I/we owe you one.

Heeros
22-07-2011, 06:36
I can fill in on some answers, others will have to have their take on the Qīs I donīt know the answers to, as I donīt have my rulebook here with me. Also, feel free to correct me on anything that Iīve got wrong.

1. If a wizard successfully casts a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix, can they cast additional spells or do they have to focus on keeping it active?
The wizard can cast additional spells once the RIP spell is cast succesfully

2. Three of my units are attacking one of my enemy's units. If all of their Initiative values are equal, in what order do they attack? Do I choose, or is it simultaneous, or is it something else?
-

3. If a unit has had a "remains in play" spell like Flames of the Phoenix cast on them, will additional spells cast upon that unit remove the initial spell's effect?
No

4. A unit of Skaven with Banner of the Under-Empire is attacking a unit of Swordmasters with ASF. The combat goes banner, ASF, Skaven, but at what point(s) are casualties removed during that process?
Not sure on what that banner does, but if it grants the unit ASF, as I recall it ASF units strike simultaneously (no?)

5. Can a unit stand and shoot versus a flank charge, or does it have to be in their forward arc? What about if it's only partially in their forward arc? What about if it's a single character taking the charge instead of a full unit?
Stand and shoot works as normal shooting, ie. target must be in the front arc. If some part of the unit is in the front arc when the charge begins you can stand and shoot. (not 100% sure on this one) You can stand and shoot normally against a single character.

6. My enemy charges me. I flee, and succeed, but in doing so position myself near another enemy unit. If that unit then charges me (in the same turn), can I flee another time? Or can a unit only flee once per turn?
You automatically flee, because you havenīt rallied yet.

7. Again, my enemy charges me, this time with a unit that causes terror. I fail the terror test and flee. Can his charging unit immediately pursue?
To my understanding the charge is resolved normally and if the charger catches you your unit is destroyed, otherwise itīs a failed charge.

8. Can two rank-and-file units merge together midway through a battle? If they both have full command (and can merge), what happens when they have two champions, two musicians, and two standards? Would they get any benefits from this?
They canīt merge.

9. Can a player refuse an opportunity to rally?
I guess not, but not sure on this one.

10. My infantry unit charges an enemy cavalry unit from 1" away. I don't catch him with my pursuit roll, but our rolls are close enough that we still end up in base contact (or less than 1" away from each other). How does this work?
I donīt see how this is possible, but I take your word for it that it is :D
Anyways, the dice roll is what counts in pursuits, not the position on the field. Basically on a roll of equal or higher than his, you catch him, otherwise you stop 1" away. (imagine thereīs a 1" bubble around the units and the only way to end your movement inside it is getting into cc with it)


11. If a unit that can stand and shoot is charged twice in the same turn, can they stand and shoot twice? Or are they only able to stand and shoot once per turn?
You can shoot once if the charges are done simultaneously, ie. choose one target. If the second charge is made with for example the dwarf anvil of doom rune, you can stand and shoot again, provided that you are not in cc (from the previous charge you know ;) ) (edit. if the previous poster is right, then Iīm wrong... check the page reference he gave)

12. If a unit rallies, and then reforms, can they still stand and shoot that turn? Does it make a difference if they're skirmishers?
-

13. A flying unit lands in dangerous terrain at the end of its turn (but otherwise does not move through it). Does it have to take a dangerous terrain test?
-

14. If a unit causes terror, can it choose whether or not it forces a terror test during a charge? What if they gain terror from an item, is it item-dependent at all?
No, if you cause terror, you cause terror. Itīs not like you (as a greater daemon) can shout to the swordsmen you are charging "no need to fear, Iīm not gonna hurt you" and theyīll immediately stop fearing you :D

15. If a unit riding a monster is killed during stand and shoot, what happens to the charge? Does the rider finish the charge? Is it any different if the rider is killed instead of the monster? -

16. One enemy unit makes a successful charge. A second enemy unit, which causes terror, charges against my same unit and forces it to flee. Does the first enemy unit get a chance to attack before my unit flees in terror?
-

17. If a weapon wounds automatically, does the weapon's strength factor into the following armor save?
Yes

Yrrdead
22-07-2011, 18:00
I'm not going to go through and repeat the answers given but I do have a few tidbits for you.

It seems that the underlying problem involved in many of these questions is declaring and resolving charges. I would recommend that you (and your opponents/friends) spend some time reading and actually playing out pages 16 -23. Having the models out and seeing the situations illustrated in the rulebook on a table may help you remember the sequencing of the charge sub phase a bit better.

13. Remember that Fly is a special rule not a unit type and that for the majority of terrain, dangerous terrain tests are triggered by unit types.
In addition even with the Fly special rule - you flee and pursue on the ground.

And Heeros, please don't answer questions when you aren't sure and "donīt have my rulebook here with me". It leads to disinformation and is kind of the exact opposite of the purpose of this forum.

GodlessM
22-07-2011, 19:31
Akkristor nailed most of it, however he is wrong in that units that rallied cannot shoot that turn unless they have the Feigned Flight special rule. As for question 8, not sure what would make you think that.

Akkristor
23-07-2011, 07:54
Akkristor nailed most of it, however he is wrong in that units that rallied cannot shoot that turn unless they have the Feigned Flight special rule. As for question 8, not sure what would make you think that.

Gah!

You are correct, sir, i missed that part in the rulebook.

And know I know!

russellmoo
23-07-2011, 22:06
Just some advice more than a rules answer-

Regarding situation #2- it is probably easiest to let your opponent resolve the attacks from his one unit first- then merely mark which units have lost models- then roll for all of your units, and only apply the casualties once all of the dice rolling is done- as the attacks are all simultaneous- this is the best way to make sure to get it right and to keep things organized-

Regarding the Skaven banner- Skaven have a number of abilities and magic items which are resolved even before ASF- the general order of things as I understand them would be something like- 1- Magic items and effects (things like the banner, and plague censor's) as they are resolved before combat starts but tend to count towards combat 2- Impact hits (which are resolved at the very start of combat) 3- ASF models strike now as combat has started 4- attacks made in Initiative order and 5- models with ASL-

Hope this info is useful.

GodlessM
23-07-2011, 22:56
Regarding the Skaven banner- Skaven have a number of abilities and magic items which are resolved even before ASF- the general order of things as I understand them would be something like- 1- Magic items and effects (things like the banner, and plague censor's) as they are resolved before combat starts but tend to count towards combat 2- Impact hits (which are resolved at the very start of combat) 3- ASF models strike now as combat has started 4- attacks made in Initiative order and 5- models with ASL-

Thing is this isn't correct; Impact Hits and other attacks that are before combat begins go in an order judged by the player whose turn it is; the other things don't automatically go before Impact Hits as you have suggested.

Heeros
25-07-2011, 06:21
And Heeros, please don't answer questions when you aren't sure and "donīt have my rulebook here with me". It leads to disinformation and is kind of the exact opposite of the purpose of this forum.

My apologies. The main reason for my reply was to give this thread some attention, since it had no answers at the time, leaving blank the questions I didnīt know exact answers to (with some exceptions, mind you). A bump if you will, but I agree with your point.

Kampfpanzer
25-07-2011, 15:30
No, but they should get a chance to persue/redirect.


I don't agree with this as you declare reactions on a per charge basis. It leads to the dirty tactic that was discussed a while back.

Say you get triple charged, you resolve charge 1 as hold and charge 1 is done. Charge 2 is hole and charge 2 is done. Charge 3 you flee, meaning only charge 3 can redirect, the first two were already resolved and if they don't make it, simply become failed charges.

Dragonreaver
25-07-2011, 20:39
I don't agree with this as you declare reactions on a per charge basis. It leads to the dirty tactic that was discussed a while back.

Say you get triple charged, you resolve charge 1 as hold and charge 1 is done. Charge 2 is hole and charge 2 is done. Charge 3 you flee, meaning only charge 3 can redirect, the first two were already resolved and if they don't make it, simply become failed charges.

I agree with this entirely. The following would happen:

Charge 1 -> Hold. Move on.
Charge 2 -> Hold. Move on.
Terror Charge -> Fail LD Test -> Flee!
THEN the charges happen. Almost certainly resulting in at least one of the charging units catching and destroying the fleeing unit.

The Terror-causing unit would get a chance to re-direct their charge if they wanted.

Whether or not the other units do is slightly open to discussion, but I don't think they would. The fleeing unit was not reacting to THEIR charge with a flee reaction. So therefore I don't think those units get a redirect. The BRB says "If the target unit declares a Flee! reaction", which didn't happen. They declared a 'Hold' reaction, they simply happened to be fleeing by the time the charges were resolved. They only "declared a Flee! reaction" to one unit, so only one unit should get to redirect their charge.

I think the most advantage the charging player could get would be to redirect the Terror-causing unit (if that was viable for them), then complete the charge with one of the other units (destroying the fleeing unit), leaving one failed charge.

Edit: Hmm, this has been FAQ'd (thought not under these exact cirumstances) and the answer was "Yes, the controlling player chooses in which order to try and redirect his units". However, I still think we're right here because the Flee! reaction in this question is specifically only given in reaction to one unit's charge. The others specifically elected to Hold. The situation in the FAQ question is vague in this regard, it's not specified if they other units are charging a unit that has elected to flee already, or if the target unit elected to Hold the first time and then flee. So it could be argued that this question is sufficiently different from the one in the FAQ to ignore that.

In other words, I think the situation in the FAQ was:
Charge 1 -> Flee!
Charge 2 -> Has to Flee!
Charge 3 -> Has to Flee!

In which case, it's perfectly reasonable that all three units would get redirects. But that's a different question to the one posed here, IMHO.


My apologies. The main reason for my reply was to give this thread some attention, since it had no answers at the time[...]

Dude, two posters already posted answers to every question AND the OP had acknowledged them, before your post. :p

Heeros
26-07-2011, 06:18
Dude, two posters already posted answers to every question AND the OP had acknowledged them, before your post. :p

What can I say, I type slowly :D (I mostly scoll here while at work, and sometimes my postings get delayed by something actually work related :D )
That, and prolly a delay of some kind, cause there were no answers when I clicked reply... Anyways, Iīll end this offtopic rant now :D

As to the real topic, in our gaming group redirects are indeed resolved in the order the charging player chooses as per the FAQ and in the situation mentioned above we would allow redirects for all the units. This actually came up once (not exactly the same situation, but close to it), but we saw no real dispute in this. After all, the terror test is made before the chargers move. IMO a hold reaction changes to a Flee! reaction in this situation and thus you resolve the charges as per the flee rules mentioned earlier.

Dragonreaver
27-07-2011, 00:55
I guess it comes down to common sense vs. RAW.

In a "real" battle, all three charges would be happening simultaneously (or close to it, the charging unit might not actually see them all at once), so the unit wouldn't really decide what to do three times. It'd just run like hell from the big terrorising monster. In which case everyone else would get redirects, because they were charging when the unit started to flee.

While RAW would suggest that since they chose to hold against the first two charges, those charging units don't get a redirect.

One of those "realistic" vs " rules as written" debates, I guess.