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Demoulius
24-07-2011, 16:11
Hello,

Im looking into adding a horde into my army when my army goes 1500+ but im not to sure on what number I should make my units...

For example i have halberdiers in my army. Would 35 of these be a decent horde? They got 3 ranks, can lose 5 models before the lose the first rank.

tmarichards
24-07-2011, 16:17
39 with a Warrior Priest is a pretty solid unit. What Lore are you running?

snottlebocket
24-07-2011, 16:19
Your halbediers don't really benefit from horde formation. Their single ws3, str4 attack is not that amazing. Put them on a more narrow front and enjoy the steadfast instead, it'll serve you better.

Horde formation has surprisingly little use actually. Anything cheap enough to get good use out of it is usually so terrible in combat that you'd benefit more from a narrow frontage and good odds on steadfast. Anything excellent in combat is often too expensive to run in large horde units where half their attacks get wasted by the only 1 supporting attack rule. The few units that do benefit are either so cheap that they can afford to go horde + steadfast (ie. the ten by ten 100 night goblin or skaven slave horde) or monstrous infantry. (when you get to use 3 attacks for every rank it becomes interesting again to create a monstrous buzzsaw)

tmarichards
24-07-2011, 16:23
I disagree entirely that hordes are wrong for halberdiers. They're good enough to run 10 wide with just a warrior priest, and even better with lore of light.

ihavetoomuchminis
24-07-2011, 16:26
Well...not so expensive units that are stubborn are useful in horde formation. i'm thinking in 29 greatswords with a Warrior priest. Any unit with a crown of command character can be useful too. But at the end, snottlebocket is right, usually it's better to run a narrow front unit with more ranks. I usually run hordes, but i do because i think it's a funnier formation, not because competitive reasons.

russellmoo
24-07-2011, 16:37
Go ahead and start in horde- you will want about 40, 35 will get you by, but 40 is good enough, 50 would be better but at 1500pts 40 is fine-

Start in horde, then either buff the unit to take on middling to lower elite troops (elf spearmen, dwarf warriors), or just run a horde against weak infantry (slaves, night goblins, zombies, skeletons)- anything that is truly elite you will need to go deep for ranks-

snottlebocket
24-07-2011, 16:52
I disagree entirely that hordes are wrong for halberdiers. They're good enough to run 10 wide with just a warrior priest, and even better with lore of light.

I would say only after they are large enough to do steadfast well. Which is entirely possible at their cost but not when your idea of a horde is bare minimum.

Demoulius
24-07-2011, 17:45
So it seems I should add a few numbers to the units then? 40+ added character(s) sounds about right?

How many hordes would an army have ideally? Is it worthwhile to have more then one or will you just hamper your own movement doing that?

Don Zeko
24-07-2011, 17:55
You can make 2 work, or maybe, maybe 3. More than that and you'll have maneuver problems.

snottlebocket
24-07-2011, 19:54
So it seems I should add a few numbers to the units then? 40+ added character(s) sounds about right?

How many hordes would an army have ideally? Is it worthwhile to have more then one or will you just hamper your own movement doing that?

I would go much larger personally. Hordes are easy to hit with artillery and other painful things so horde members often die in droves. If a horde falls below steadfast strength it'll have to get by on combat power alone. If it falls below complete horde numbers even the horde advantage is lost. For light troops like imperial soldiers I'd say 60 to 80.

As for hampering movement, sometimes that's exactly what you want. Two hordes side by side will make your battle line hard to flank. Put a warmachine or two between the hordes and enough shooting and magic to get your enemy to come to you. Much easier to anchor than a few small units.

Most moderate sized empire armies bring only one or two large blocks of infantry with their own detachments. The rest is invested in speciality units like artillery, steam tanks, sorcery, captainsus, flaggelants etc.

GodlessM
24-07-2011, 20:07
I disagree entirely that hordes are wrong for halberdiers. They're good enough to run 10 wide with just a warrior priest, and even better with lore of light.

I agree. It seems pointless to deploy defensively with Halberdiers; if you wanted a defensive unit you would have taken Swordsmen.

snottlebocket
24-07-2011, 20:32
I agree. It seems pointless to deploy defensively with Halberdiers; if you wanted a defensive unit you would have taken Swordsmen.

All empire is defensive at the best of times. Putting a halberd on a basic human does not turn him into a melee powerhouse. Considering their strengths and weaknesses put their defense first and their offense second if there's enough points and numbers to go that route.

A few more halberd attacks isn't going to save the day if you start losing your rank bonus or steadfast.

Jack of Blades
24-07-2011, 21:06
I would say that it depends on what lore of magic you're using and whether you plan to use it for buffing your troops or not. Lore of Life is less useful with swordsmen because less of them will die but for halberdiers it makes a good difference. Lore of Light is better with halberdiers because they have higher strength to make use of the ''technique'' boosts with unlike swordsmen who would benefit more from Lore of Beasts. Lore of Metal in SoM is great for swordsmen as the offensive buff is so good that not having defensive equipment is a waste. And so on...

But without buffs I would recommend halberdiers against other mediocre troops and swordsmen against more elite stuff. Halberdiers are pretty much budget troops that don't need buffs in order to perform okay-ish if they're in a horde formation while swordsmen really shine when you put +to wound and/or armour-ignoring buffs on them.

SevenSins
24-07-2011, 21:19
40ish generally and in the case of halberdiers including a priest does wonders (he also can make them unbreakable right? although getting the prayer of might take some doing)

generally horde formation is designed for anything reasonably hardhitting with a single attack base (so in empire halberds and greatswords)

for spearunits I'd suggest at least 50 but they need spells to kill reliably

wingate32
25-07-2011, 15:21
I would say it depends on the other units, it's important to have both an anvil and a hammer.

I always run with a 30 strong, 5 wide swordsman unit and a horde of 40 halberdiers. With a warriorpriest and wyssans wildform (lvl 1 mage) they become real competetive. "As good as it gets" is a good motto for a Empire player ;)