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Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 02:40
how would you guys handle grimgor ironhide on a budget?
in combat he gets 6 or so ASF S8 WS8 attacks and the bastard is only 355 points.

a chaos lord w/ 3++ still is likely to die before getting to strike back unless he uses the ASF weapon or helm.......

helm of many eyes + other stuff to taste? or magic doom?

decker_cky
26-07-2011, 03:22
Grimgor causes 1 wound average in the first round against a 3+ ward chaos lord. After that, he gets -1 S (might allow some armour save), and loses rerolls (lower I).

In a unit with the banner of rage, a tzeentch chaos lord with talisman of protection and chaos runesword would kill grimgor in the 3rd round of combat. Grimgor would kill the chaos lord in the 4th round. Close fight though.

A tzeentch chaos lord with the talisman of protection, biting blade and chaos runeshield on a barded steed would easily outmatch grimgor (takes 8 rounds, but he kills grimgor while having only suffered 1 wound average).

Word of Agony on either of those causes 3/4 of a wound average, which tips the scales further to the chaos lord.

Brother Alexos
26-07-2011, 03:35
Or the biggest tarpit of Marauders you've ever seen. Keep him occupied.

russellmoo
26-07-2011, 04:19
I find this thread amusing-

Welcome to the dilemma faced by almost every other army fighting a WoC chaos lord- a little role reversal is a good thing- just use those marauders as a tarpit- the same way that lots of other armies without super good fighting characters have to do-

You could also try using magic to snipe- but he does have a very good stat line- so tarpit is your best option-

Or get your group to ban special characters-

Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 04:44
thanks for the advice decker_cky, although ive become uncomfortable with giving him a shot to hit first (bad experience with my characters surviving long enough to hit back) though the 3+ ward should help.. i miss my terminator/artificer armor in 40k. ive also been trying to save the talisman for a sorc lord

marauder tarpit would have to be about 100 models to last long enough vs grimgor and his retinue (my buddy usually takes 30+ blorcs).

hmmm 4++ ward and helm of many eyes +weapon tzeentch character?

Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 04:57
russell ninja'd me! my gaming group consists of me and my buddy who just got grimgor..

i almost always believe in spending the 300-400+ points you could drop on a chaos lord on another block of infantry. ive found that i can usually break boyz despite the presence of a big boss or whatever..

before we started playing i took a look over my army book and asked him to agree to not use special characters and we had a bunch of good games. then my hellcannon hit 3x in a row and he said **** that..

decker_cky
26-07-2011, 04:59
The other thing is 5 units of hounds/marauder horsemen/other chaff within the general's leadership range. Keep advancing them in grimgor's unit's path, and angling themselves so he can only charge 1" or so, and overruns giving you a big flank so you can break his unit quickly, or he reforms and doesn't get to advance his unit.

Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 05:05
that could work, ill have to start running even more of those units now, the 4 units of hounds i use now are barely sufficient to protect my lines from mangler squigs and night gobbo fanatics.

thanks for the advice man

Tarian
26-07-2011, 05:19
Or if he wants to play *that* game, field Archaon, as the Everchosen should eat Grimgor.

Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 05:35
w/ the 25% rule we cant take him till 3000 points. we can only take 625 of lords :(

that was the first thing that crossed my mind, then i sized them up buttttt minus the wardsave i think grimgor and archon are about on the same level except grimgor strikes first.

i also find myself in a bit of a bind. i try to be sporting all the time, but he gets more than a little frustrated/angry when he loses. grimgor is his most recent answer to my last victory. if i smash him to badly i won't have a playing buddy for a few weeks

friendsofrhomb
26-07-2011, 06:35
didnt gromgore kill the everchosen a fewyears back in some fluff? Game wise, yeah he'd mince grimgore

Kharn_21
26-07-2011, 07:07
iirc valten and luthor found and fought archon during the storm of chaos, luthor was killed quickly, valten was grievously wounded and at the moment of his victory he got tackled and 'eadbutted by grimgor. he then planted his foot on archons chest, bellowed "grimgor is da best!" and stalked off.

oCoYoRoAoKo
26-07-2011, 08:35
It's easy. Grimgor isn't unbreakeable nor stubborn (unless steadfast). Just hit the unit with enough warriors or chosen, beat it in combat and let it run away. Grimgor can occupy himself with your unit champion so there should be little issue with him.

note: Thats how I do it with my beastmen. Buff up some gors and let them go do their thing.

Memnos
26-07-2011, 08:45
Ways to kill Grimgor:

1) Spam Gateway.
2) Unkillable Tzeentch Lord.
3) Default Lore of Shadows his ass back to Initiative 1, then swallow him with the Daemon Prince. He doesn't get to reroll to hit because his Initiative is lower. You get a Ward Save and he gets eaten by a Daemon Prince.
4) There is NO option 4.
5) Hit him in the front with Marauders and in the flank with Chaos Knights. Run deep ranks with the Marauders and win combat with the Knights. Run him down.

drear
26-07-2011, 08:50
tarpits are always the best bet, as long as you hold grimgor for 3 or so turns hes useless.
by then whatever you hit his unit with will have killed a good few blorcs, and your closing the game by the time he leaves combat with those 50 maurauders with flails. or whatever your choice is.

GenerationTerrorist
26-07-2011, 22:19
Chaos Lord Setup for me specifically tailored for a one-vs-one challenge on that nasty Green brute would be:
-MoK, Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Talisman of Preservation, Bronze Armour
- 7 S6 Attacks, should be enough to deal with him over a few turns.

NB: I can't remember if Grimgor has Killing Blow, so if not you could ditch Bronze Armour.

RanaldLoec
27-07-2011, 00:22
If your set on tackling him head on then the three big issues I find with Grimgor is

1) his magic axe with +2st and ASF
2) 1+ armour save
3) His immortal body guard, immune to psychology he can never choose to free.

Grimgor weaknesses

He doesn't have many but I will take what I can.

1) His axe with out it hes a well protected black ork warboss.:eek:
2) A bsb can't join his unit, so you can tip the scales with yours
3) His unit he's not stubborn so its concentrating enough hitting power to over come his kills and make him run.

So some ideas but I'm not claiming there solutions in the end you need to apply anything said in this thread to your opponents play style, favoured list etc

The chaos rune sheild, Grimgor is allot less scary once he loses the +2 strength and always strikes first ability. Delivering the character with the sheild is the problem, as is the inevitable unit of immortals accompaning him can hit hard. Black orcs striking at st7 should scare any character on the first turn due to the choppa rule.

To get your character there a disc of tzeentch or steed of Slaanesh for speed.

The sword of swift striking, helm of many eyes to negate the always strike first.

The whip of submission in combination with the helm of many eyes and potion of strength cause one wound Grimgor's then attacking his own unit.

Not ideal but the axe of khorne for killing blow but that's too reliant on a lucky six.
The father of swords, uses Grimgor axe against him the relying on a lucky 1's to hit so grimgor hits himself.

I won't go into survival tactics as any high ward save is best, armour saves are at minus 4 or 5 against Grimgor so not a great help. Same for his immortals at minus 3 or 4 with great weapons and the choppa rule.

Grimgors unit can be his weakness some times its a matter of absorb Grimgors attacks and killing his unit, tzeentch warriors with halberds and banner of rage.

Magic

Shadow with Nurgle

Shadow signature spell to reduce initiative on Grimgor and his unit. Taking Grimgor down to initiative 4,3 or 2.

The cast closing quagmire pass an initiative test if you fail pass an armour save and you die no ward saves :eek:

Oh noooo Grimgors got a 1+ armour save what a shame.

It's a little more subtle than gateway.

There is always enfeebling foe with curse of the leper as well.

Kharn_21
28-07-2011, 06:34
thanks for all the advice its given me alot of ideas for tweaking my character load outs and army lists. i thought i would report how i fared against my buddies orcs n goddos when he used grimgor earlier today. short version, i didnt need to worry.

long version, i barely hit grimgor with a poorly rolled penumbral pendulum (i rolled a 6,5,3,1,1,1 for distance) on turn 1. he failed his ward and i rolled a 3 on the D3 wounds for it being boosted. heh, the remainder of the game didnt last long as he lost much of his impetus to play when his "character of DOOOMMM!!!" died. i still learned alot though

decker_cky
28-07-2011, 06:49
Tends to be the case with characters of doom. Many a high elf player have quit when Teclis fell, whether the battle was decided at that point or not.

TMATK
29-07-2011, 21:34
Grimgor gets a lo,s roll from that spell as well.

Sappysid101
29-07-2011, 21:38
3+ ward, helm of many eyes and the glavie (takes them to str and t 2). With word of agony it shouldn't be to difficult as it'll wound him on 2's once he's wounded ;)

- Sid

Gobbies
30-07-2011, 12:57
Correct me if im wrong, or if its already been mentioned, but killing blow is something that can help you. Also, Grimgor's biggest weakness his that he's on foot. Try and avoid him as much as possible, use unbreakable units if possible to keep him occupied

Kevlar
02-08-2011, 00:45
Grimgor is on foot right? A couple of irresistable 13th spells should do the trick!

decker_cky
02-08-2011, 06:46
Grimgor is on foot right? A couple of irresistable 13th spells should do the trick!

13th spell very rarely works when WoC are playing against an army with grimgor in it...

Kevlar
02-08-2011, 22:39
13th spell very rarely works when WoC are playing against an army with grimgor in it...

True, but WoC do have access to very similar type spells. Portway or Gatal or something like that. Or various other kill whole unit type spells from the color decks.

It isn't like WoC are hurting for casters.

Rosstifer
05-08-2011, 11:56
Take Shadow. MINDRAZOR FTW! *Ahem*.