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ewar
27-07-2011, 13:58
Hey,

Thought I'd throw another SoM question onto the pile which are building up.

How are LM players getting their slann onto fulcrums if they are never allowed to leave their temple guard bunker? Is such a thing possible? I think RAW that it is not, but just doesn't seem in the spirit of SoM to me.

(Note - this does NOT require any kind of sage advice as to why you wouldn't want to do such a thing, I am thinking of it only from the stand point that (a) it would be fluffy and (b) might be necessary to grab victory towards the endgame)

Ramius4
27-07-2011, 14:05
I think RAW that it is not, but just doesn't seem in the spirit of SoM to me.

This. This was one of the first things I realized before the book was even released. But like all in my gaming group, I never was concerned. I knew we'd all agree that it is 'in the spirit of SoM' to allow them to leave the unit.

Rulebooks are great 99.9% of the time; but they're just guidelines when it comes to a common sense matter.

ewar
27-07-2011, 14:21
Agreed, will have to consult with my gaming group to see what they think.

I just can't imagine the mighty space frog would sit idly by when he could get (float) to the top of a magic pillar of skulls and start really laying the smackdown.

ArtificerArmour
27-07-2011, 18:40
But you could see his temple guard stopping him from doing so, as they are spawned to, as they exist to.

They are there to protect him. Allowing the fat frog to sit ontop of some weird magic building constructed of skulls and have everyone in the battlefield chuck magic at him is not protecting him.

The bearded one
27-07-2011, 18:47
Unless they are of course standing in front of it, preventing everyone from reaching the Slann.

ArtificerArmour
27-07-2011, 18:53
But not stopping duelling, teleportation, enhanced miscasts

The bearded one
27-07-2011, 19:12
The Slann is gonna go about his magical tasks. The templeguard have no bussines in that. All they have to do is physically protect the Slann and not leave him alone. For example Lord Kroak was casting a crazy powerful spell and sent his templeguard forward onto the bridge in front of his pyramid to defend the bridge while he was casting. They wouldn't be able to protect him from daemons teleporting or flying onto the pyramid.

Col. Dash
27-07-2011, 19:52
The only way he can do this is by teleporting himself out of the unit which I believe there is a spell that allows this when we were discussing this the other day. Otherwise either dont bring temple guard or he never gets on a fulcrim.

ArtificerArmour
27-07-2011, 20:58
The Slann is gonna go about his magical tasks. The templeguard have no bussines in that. All they have to do is physically protect the Slann and not leave him alone. For example Lord Kroak was casting a crazy powerful spell and sent his templeguard forward onto the bridge in front of his pyramid to defend the bridge while he was casting. They wouldn't be able to protect him from daemons teleporting or flying onto the pyramid.


The TG have every business, they were spawned for that business!

Fluff does not equal rules, but rules as written do equal rules:

Sacred Duty (paraphrased): The Slann cannot leave this unit - The TG are spawned to protect the slann and they will not leave their charge for anything, even if the Slann may wish it!

Must the Slann leave their unit to enter a fulcrum - Yes.
Are they allowed to leave their unit - No.

Choice is simple, don't take Temple Guard, or house rule with your opponant.

Vsurma
27-07-2011, 21:47
Ruleswise you can't do it, Templeguard want to guard the slann and guard him they will.

That said, since the slann doesn't actually want to be on a fullcrum (miscasts are worse) its not a real issue.

Why would I want my slann on a fulcrum when a lv1 mage works just as well?

Alternatively who takes TG if you don't plan on running a slann in them. Without their unbreakable they aren't all that tbh.

Is there some advantage to actually having your most expensive lord leave his unit?

Lord Zarkov
27-07-2011, 22:04
It seems characterful to me for the Slann to sit lasily with his bodyguards casting away with his catclysms, while his Skink priest minions claim the fulcrums.

Ruleswise he cannot leave the TG unit.

Ramius4
28-07-2011, 15:05
Ruleswise he cannot leave the TG unit.

He cannot leave the TG unit once he's joined it.

However... After playing a couple SoM games, I realized something.

The way wizards are deployed in SoM circumvents this problem. After placing fulcrums and choosing sides, each player places a wizard in each fulcrum. This is BEFORE the rest of your army deploys. So place the Slann in a fulcrum, then your TG go out when you deploy the rest of your army. Problem solved ;)

ArtificerArmour
28-07-2011, 22:31
He must join the unit though, there is no way around it. The rules clearly state he must join the TG unit.

Ramius4
29-07-2011, 02:54
He must join the unit though, there is no way around it. The rules clearly state he must join the TG unit.

But if he is deployed first, there is no TG unit to join...

Regardless, even if the rules stated it was impossible no matter what special rule, scenario, the guy across the table says... Who in their right mind, playing a GAME of warhammer, would not allow a Slann to deploy in a fulcrum?

Common sense should always prevail over a rule when the rule becomes contradictory to the 'spirit of the game' (which is for all involved to have fun...)

eron12
29-07-2011, 05:18
But if he is deployed first, there is no TG unit to join...

Regardless, even if the rules stated it was impossible no matter what special rule, scenario, the guy across the table says... Who in their right mind, playing a GAME of warhammer, would not allow a Slann to deploy in a fulcrum?

Common sense should always prevail over a rule when the rule becomes contradictory to the 'spirit of the game' (which is for all involved to have fun...)

So unless the slann gets to circumvent even more rules people won't have fun?

EDMM
29-07-2011, 07:24
Can't be done.

ArtificerArmour
29-07-2011, 07:56
I'll let you put a slann on the fulcrum if i get to spend 50% on wizards.

Whst? Its the spirit of the game ;).

Slann is in same army as the tg, so must be deployed with them. That means the slann must be deployed with them after the fulcrum jockeying.

drear
29-07-2011, 08:19
drop it? its clear, its there, get used to it.

the slann cannot leave the templeguard. if you want a slann on a fulcrum..simple just take saurus and skink.

why would you even want him on one? if its late in the game and you are finding your low on wizards, use the slann to summon some. its not like hes bad at magic..
+4 to cast, +1powerdice , you can 6 dice a summoning, grab a lvl 2 wizard from any army.

Tayrod
29-07-2011, 23:58
in the July Storm of Magic WD (379) p26-27 there's a picture of a "battle in progress" between a skaven and a lizardmen player. In this picture a Slann mage priest is clearly placed on a fulcrum, while a Temple guard unit is placed on the table (on the right flank).

Surgency
30-07-2011, 00:06
I'll let you put a slann on the fulcrum if i get to spend 50% on wizards.

Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but its entirely possible to spend 50% on wizards ;)

Mr_Rose
30-07-2011, 01:36
Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but its entirely possible to spend 50% on wizards ;)
More than, in a SoM game, if you also buy monstrous Wizards like the Fimir...

Sexiest_hero
30-07-2011, 02:35
Your slann can leave TG if My ethereal vampire can take mythic Items

FashaTheDog
30-07-2011, 03:47
Wouldn't Storm of Magic's special deployment overrule this problem as you must first deploy wizards on Fulcrums only leaving any unoccupied if you are short of wizards then you deploy your army. Then there is also the Lizardman's Cataclysm spell that can only be cast by a Slaan, which would indicate that the bloated amphibian was meant to occupy a Fulcrum in these games.

muppet515
31-07-2011, 01:39
Then there is also the Lizardman's Cataclysm spell that can only be cast by a Slaan, which would indicate that the bloated amphibian was meant to occupy a Fulcrum in these games.

Except that he doesn't have to be on a fulcrum in order to cast the spell.

FashaTheDog
31-07-2011, 03:53
Ah, misread that bit. Only need to control a Fulcrum, not be on it. Good to know.

ArtificerArmour
01-08-2011, 08:36
in the July Storm of Magic WD (379) p26-27 there's a picture of a "battle in progress" between a skaven and a lizardmen player. In this picture a Slann mage priest is clearly placed on a fulcrum, while a Temple guard unit is placed on the table (on the right flank).

And when does a WD pic ever resemble a "real" battle :p photos in a catalogue should not be indicative of rules issues.

Count Zero
01-08-2011, 08:51
i guess we'll have to hope they will release a SoM FAQ to clear something like this up. The simple solution would be to not take TG, but the Lizzies are a bit short on infantry choices so just taking even more Saurus is kinda boring.

Personally I'd allow him to deploy on a fulcrum or deploy in the TG, if he starts the battle in the TG he can't leave them (unless they all die), however I would let him leave the fulcrum and join the TG. That feels fairly fluffy to me, and SoM is meant to be a bit more about the fluff right.

magicmonkey
01-08-2011, 08:58
we asked our local store aabout this as we were playing SoM for the first time (with our normal armies) and he said that the slaan goes on the fulcrum before deployment so doesnt have to join his temple guard.

muppet515
01-08-2011, 09:24
we asked our local store aabout this as we were playing SoM for the first time (with our normal armies) and he said that the slaan goes on the fulcrum before deployment so doesnt have to join his temple guard.

ahhh, but I asked my brother's, girlfriend's, mum's, next-door neighbour and he said the Slaan does have to join the temple guard.

Yes my scenario is made up, but it holds just as much authority. Until it's FAQ'd the best we can do is seek opponents permission. If your opponent says "no, army book says must be deployed with unit" accept it with good grace. If they allow you to deploy on a fulcrum, fine.

End of the day, it's supposed to be fun. Create your own scenario where the Slaan is allowed to deploy outside the TG and where your opponent also gets something funky they wouldn't normally be allowed to take, that way everyone's happy.

Spiney Norman
01-08-2011, 09:35
in the July Storm of Magic WD (379) p26-27 there's a picture of a "battle in progress" between a skaven and a lizardmen player. In this picture a Slann mage priest is clearly placed on a fulcrum, while a Temple guard unit is placed on the table (on the right flank).

This is the same battle where the Lizardmen "player" has deployed his cavalry 4 wide... The picture is clearly nothing more than a mock up, theres no way its a mid-game shot, and whats more White dwarf has never been known for its rules accuracy.


we asked our local store aabout this as we were playing SoM for the first time (with our normal armies) and he said that the slaan goes on the fulcrum before deployment so doesnt have to join his temple guard.

Staff are at liberty to house-rule in-game situations as they see fit in their own store, but I see no reason why them deciding to waive a certain rule in one game should have any bearing on whether the Sacred Guardians should be ignored in SoM games played anywhere else.

The Sacred Guardians rule is rigidly inflexible, the Slann MUST join the TG unit, and he CANNOT leave it. Unless they FAQ the SoM book to allow Slann to leave their guardians in order to occupy a fulcrum you'll either have to agree to house-rule it with your opponent or keep your toad with his buddies and off the podiums, or else just don't take TG, they are colossally overpriced unless the toad is with them anyway.

GodlessM
01-08-2011, 12:50
The Sacred Guardians rule is rigidly inflexible, the Slann MUST join the TG unit, and he CANNOT leave it. Unless they FAQ the SoM book to allow Slann to leave their guardians in order to occupy a fulcrum you'll either have to agree to house-rule it with your opponent or keep your toad with his buddies and off the podiums, or else just don't take TG, they are colossally overpriced unless the toad is with them anyway.

This .