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View Full Version : Can I cast Gardeners warcry or living deadwood staff on a fulcrum



Vsurma
27-07-2011, 21:33
Thoughts? I didn't see anything against it so far but it seems iffy.

b4z
03-08-2011, 00:35
Your question is not clear.

Do you mean;

1. Can you cast the above, AT a unit ON a fulcrum...

Or

2. Can you cast the above, WITH a caster that is ON a fulcrum?


Casting AT a unit ON A fulcrum depends on the spell restrictions contained within the spell description. Just like regular Warhammer games.

Casting WITH a caster ON a fulcrum doesn't change anything in terms of ability to cast spells, or bound spells from [mythic artefacts] items.


On to the specific items:

Living Deadwood Staff has a Bound Spell Power Level 12 - which includes summoning a wood [which will count as a blood forest as well as its other type]

Gardener's Warcry is a Cataclysm Spell cast on a 10+ - which includes summoning a wood [which will count as a blood forest]

If you are asking whether you can PLACE a Summoned Wood ON TOP OF or UNDERNEATH an Arcane Fulcrum...
then the answer would be NO to ON TOP OF and YES to UNDERNEATH.

The reasons for which are explained on Page 33 - Summoned Terrain Features.

A wood sitting on top of a fulcrum looks ridiculous. A fulcrum sitting in some newly summoned woods looks plausible.

FINALLY: I am presuming you are wanting to create a Blood Forest underneath the Fulcrum, so that the enemy caster takes various hits each time he tries to cast or each time you cast something at him.

Quite a clever plan actually ;)

Especially since the Living Deadwood Staff makes those Blood Forests even more aggressive with Presence/Equilibrium/Dominance.

HOWEVER, The question now becomes... Does a Caster ON an Arcane Fulcrum which is INSIDE a Blood Forest count as being IN the Blood Forest? ;)

Since technically he is in a Building.

BEEGfrog
03-08-2011, 22:45
With the SoM summoned terrain reasonableness rule I would expect that the blood forest would have to be doughnut shaped counted as the fulcrum being surrounded by the forrest rather than being within the forest. There would probably have to be a 1" gap around the fulcrum to demonstrate the difference between surrounded by and within.

RanaldLoec
06-08-2011, 07:55
Sorry BEEfrog but no I don't think it has to be a doughnut shaped wood. You can summon a forest and place it any where on the board under units or terrain.

The only rules governing summoned terrain is on pg33 and I see no Homer Simpson inspired doughnut rules there.

If you place the forest under a hill it becomes a hill with trees on it. Place it under a building its a building in a wood. You just apply the rules of the forest type to any models with the forest.

Theirs no need to add rules when the rules that exist work fine.

hashrat
06-08-2011, 15:10
The building may well be in a forest, but it isn't a building with a Bloodforrest in the bedroom.
There is no way you can convince anyone inside the building that Bloodforrest rules apply to them while they are inside the building. Or on a fulcrum.

It will let you surround a Fulcrum with a bloodforrest, but it doesn't give you permission to create a Haunted-Blood-Fulcrum-forrest-Screeslope-of-Doom!.

AM1640
07-08-2011, 05:26
I agree that the rules state that the fulcrum can be inside the summoned forest. However the wizard would still be in a "building" or possibly above the tops of the trees on the fulcrum as it rises into the sky or whatever. If someone really pushed me on it I might agree that the wizard could take D6 hits as from being in a building hit by a template from a war machine but I haven't read anything in the rules like it. I wonder if GW even play tested everything in the SoM book?

Gonzoyola
07-08-2011, 10:00
Now if we pull our heads together and look at it matter of factly it would go like this.

Is there a model? Yes. Is the model in a building? Yes. Is the building in a forest? Yes. Then, by relation, can we say that the model is in the forest? Yes.


I also saw a comment suggesting that the tower doesnt have a blood forest in the bedroom.

There is nothing to stop the imagination from conjuring an image of this bloodforest bursting from the ground, with boughs grasping around the building, foliage protruding into open crevices, and even covering to the top of the tower. At the same time the imagination can be a bit wild. Given what we know though, these fulcrums come from nowhere most of the time, and there surely isn't any gardeners or staff keeping things tidy. You find a fulcrum, you snag it. It doesn't matter if it is in the middle of a lake, bursting through the cemetary, or rising out of the woods.

RanaldLoec
08-08-2011, 08:00
It's in the forest its effected by the rules of the forest.

It's in the haunted mansion in the forest its effected by the rules for both.

It's not complicated its very simple.

b4z
08-08-2011, 11:22
The problem is...

Where does it say in the Rulebook? ...That you if a Building is in a Forest, then the unit inside that Building is subject to not only the Building rules but also subject to the Forest rules.

Because I can't find it.

RanaldLoec
08-08-2011, 14:14
The bit under forests. If your unit or models base falls within a forests footprint your affected by the rules for it, it gives no exceptions to units occupying buildings.

EDMM
08-08-2011, 20:17
New terrain summoned is placed ON previous/existing terrain.

So building going onto woods? Perfectly fine.
Woods going onto building? It's stupid, so don't do it.

I don't think there's anything in the rules to let you put terrain under existing terrain, just on top of it.

RanaldLoec
08-08-2011, 20:53
New terrain summoned is placed ON previous/existing terrain.

So building going onto woods? Perfectly fine.
Woods going onto building? It's stupid, so don't do it.

I don't think there's anything in the rules to let you put terrain under existing terrain, just on top of it.

SoM goes into detail on pg 33 saying

"summoned terrain features can be placed on other terrain featured, but not if this would look silly - a tower on top of a hill is fine, as would some obstacles in a newly created wood, but a hill on top of a tower would look ridiculous and is there fore not allowed".

Above this it states summoned terrain can be on top of units in which case you place the units in or on the summoned terrain.

So forests can be summoned onto other terrain as long as the forest looks reasonable, this can be achieved by placing it under rather than on top of units or terrain like pg 33 states.

Notice the rules refer to placing obstacles in a newly created wood, which indicates the obstacles where there before the wood but for comments sense reasons the wood is placed under the obstacles.

The rules are about what looks reasonable not, no you can't summon that hill under that statue.

More be sensible when you do place terrain eg no hills on top of buildings.

If you wish to be so restrictive and narrow in rules interpretation cool, but the rules in summoned terrain is based on commen sense not strict rules interpretations.

I can easily imagine a Woodelve Glamour weave calling up a wood from beneath a chaos held tower to tear the garrison apart.

Have fun don't be a rules bum. ;)

EDMM
08-08-2011, 20:56
summoned terrain features can be placed on other terrain featured.

"On" doesn't mean "under" in any language that I speak.

To say you can place it "on" is NOT to say you can place it "under."

In fact it's the exact opposite.

If I am sitting on a chair, the chair is under me.

If I am sitting on a chair, the chair is not on top of me.

This is the reason why the rules are so specific about what looks right. It looks right to put a forest "on" a hill. It looks idiotic to balance a hill "on" a forest.

RanaldLoec
08-08-2011, 21:13
Sticky key board apologies for the double post.

RanaldLoec
08-08-2011, 21:15
:shifty:Thanks for explaining the word on to me, now read the full paragraph paying attention to.

"as would some obstacles in a newly created wood"

Low and behold a newly created wood and the obstacles are placed in it.

Yet its the wood that is newly created not the obstacles.

How can this be unless the obstacles existed before the wood.

Yet their placed in the newly created wood, which can only mean.

YES the wood is placed UNDER the obstacles.:eek: