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plague docter
28-07-2011, 11:43
A friend of mine asked me to put up his new Bret List, He is new to fantasy so take it easy.

Lord:
Bretonnian Lord with Grail vow, Bretonnian warhorse, virtue of Audacity, Sword of Heros and the grail shield.

Heros:
Paladin with virtue of Heroism, Valourous standard, Barbed bretonnian warhorse

Damsel of the Lady with Bretonnian warhorse and holy Icon.

Core:
Knights of the realm X15
Knights of the realm X15
Knights of the realm X15
Men-at-arms X20 with standard.
Men-at-arms X20 with standard.
Bow men X19

He cant decide whether to get rid of 3 knights (1 from each unit) and get a unit of 3 grail knights.

He would appreciate any C&C thank you.

Doc

Zaonite
28-07-2011, 12:04
It's a nice start up force but I feel it won't be very effective...

What I would do is combine all the men at arms into one big unit. Take a damsel with lore of beasts and wyssans's wildform them with the prayer Icon to give them the blessing. Peasants with a ward save are a (small) force to be reckoned with.

Next is to get rid of the peasant bowmen... I am of the opionion that they have gone down in effectiveness with the advent of 8th ed and huge units. This will open up some points for a trebuchet.

If you're wanting grail knights then just drop a train of regular Knights, and alter the numbers of the others to fit your characters in lance formation.

A common build for the BSB is Barded Warhorse, Virtue of Duty, War Banner. This gives a whopping +3 combat resolution before the fight starts. Combined with a full 3 ranks, a regular banner and a charge, your opponent has to do 8 wounds to even just draw combat!

The Lord Doesn't need the Grail Vow unless he's specifically going in a unit of Grail Knights. The points saved in this manner can be used to buy that extra knight or even going towards a trebuchet.

A common build for the Lord is Virtue of Heroism, Heartwood Lance, Tress of Isoulde and The potion of Foolhardiness. These add up to (almost) reliably killing a monster a turn.

There are a few other Bretonnian army lists knocking around and they have some brilliant advice for army composition.

Your man has to figure out what he wants from the army. It works well in a variety of ways, combined peasants and knights works, peasant heavy can work and I can say from experience that knight heavy works too.

Just give it a go and try stuff out. If it doesn't work, try something else. It's half the fun!:cool:

Jolly Puggles
28-07-2011, 12:05
1st up: Men-at-Arms. They're overpriced, overequipped and a waste of points. Defensively, Peasant Archers are better in melee because they a)get to Stand-and-Shoot and b)have defensive stakes. Archers also get the option of Braziers which will cause Fear in Flammable foes. Offensively, he has large numbers of heavily armoured Knights...what does he need infantry offence for? If you want to spend the points on infantry, get more archers instead.

2nd: Knights. 3 units of 15 KotR will be devastatingly effective, but your friend may find that reducing them to 12 or even 9 and getting a couple of extra units is more effective. It'll let him achieve flanking positions easier and he gets a free Champion in every unit! Even as simple as splitting those 45 Knights into 5 units of 9 will provide superior results. Downgrade two of those units to Knights Errant and drop the Men-at-Arms and he'll probably be able to afford a small unit (6 or so) of Questing or Grail Knights.

plague docter
28-07-2011, 12:21
Thanks for the amazingly fast responses, I'll be sure to send him the link to this thread so he can see all this great advice for himself. On the matter of the men-At-Arms for the sole fact of him liking the idea of his knights trampling over them(fluff wise) and the models themselves.

Doc

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 12:52
I disagree with pretty much vrything being said so far so I'll just adress the original list instead.

The Lord is.... Okay... I used to run him in 7th edition to great effect but with the FAQ to Virtue of Heroism it's just not that great anymore. The combining it with the Heartwood Lance it's just soooo much better, it kills monsters more easilly and it's like a billion times better against normal units as well.

I run mine with Virtue of Heroism, Heartwood Lance, Tress of Isolde and Charmed Shield on a Pegasus(you're not fielding any pegs so you could have him on a pony if you want).

I don't have my book on me since I'm abroad and typing on an iPad but I think Valorous Standard can only be taken by units of Knights and in any case it's not really worth it. BSB usually take a lot of damage and I prefer to have at least one defensive item on mine. Most poeple like the Gromril Great Healm, I then add either Sword of Might or Potion of Toughness. The build Zaonite proposed was awesome back in 7th due to the lack of step up and steadfast but in 8th it's really quite pointless. I ran it like the first week of 8th and then I dropped it, your large block will always win combat anyways(or you're up against something really killy in which case your Paladin will just die). CR is not as important as it was.

HOly Icon is incredibly overpriced and VERY situational, just get Prayer Icon and stick her with the M@A.

Knights are fine but they'd love banners for the Blood And Glory scenario.

Never run M@A in units smaller than 40, with Prayer Icon and Wyssan's Wildform they'll take down units twice their cost easily.

Don't listen to people whining about Bowmen they are INCREDIBLE for their point cost, especially if you have trebuchets (which you should so you can deal with stubborn and unbreakable units) due to their ability to remove regeneration(always pay for braziers 5pts is nothing). At long range they win a shoot out with Glade Guards, Hand Gunners and pretty much anything similar, they take care of those pesky redirecters blockers and annoyance units. They force wizards to stay inside units. There's an excellent discussion about them on the round table forums(can't really link on this thing,well I could but it would be a bit of hassel. I never leave home without my 26 bowmen with musician and braziers and they have yet to disappoint me.

Grail Knights are painfully overpriced but they... Kinda.. Work... If you really want to use them, they're not bad the normal knights just do the exact same thing but cheaper :(

Slayerthane
28-07-2011, 17:28
There's an excellent discussion about them on the round table forums(can't really link on this thing,well I could but it would be a bit of hassel. I never leave home without my 26 bowmen with musician and braziers and they have yet to disappoint me.

Here you go Jinxies! :)

http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/

Jinxies
28-07-2011, 17:45
Cheers! :)