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Y'he Sha'is
29-07-2011, 18:30
I'm writing a list to take to a tournament, and basically the idea is to keep it as tough as possible, while still being fun to play with (and against). Obviously, my sportmanship is key to the 'playing against' part, but I still would like to make a list that feels very dark-elvish.

The idea is to have a few blocks of solid troops, and some shooting, and some shock troops in the form of monsters & cavalry. It's a pretty simple list, and I think it's probably been done before, but I thought I'd post it and see what people thought.

Anyway, any thoughts/comments/critiques are welcomed at this point. Advice on how you see this playing, or general weak points would also be welcomed.

LORDS
Dreadlord - 305
Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Pendant of Khaeleth, Crown of Command, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Dark Pegasus Mount
The basic unkillable lord. His job is to find that high strength deadly unit, and hold them up for a good portion of the game.

Supreme Sorceress - 285
Level 4, Sacrificial Dagger
I'm a bit nervous that she doesn't have a ward save, but if I keep her in a block of spearmen or crossbowmen, she should be find for a bit. Right?

HEROES
Death Hag - 225
Battle Standard Bearer, Cauldron of Blood
This is key to any dark elf list I think in 8th edition.

CORE
(25) Dark Elf Spearmen - 190
Full Command, Shields

(25) Dark Elf Spearmen - 190
Full Command, Shields
I am not sure if (2) units of 25 elves are enough to stick it out for a while, and I've thought about bumping them up to 30 or maybe even 1 block of 35 and get more crossbowmen, but for now this is the plan. Opinions?

(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 110
Shields
(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 110
Shields

(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 110
Shields
I don't know if the shields are necessary, but if I run them in blocks of 20 they are for the ward save. However, in blocks of 10, acting as a small bunker for the sorceress, are they really necessary? Would 2 blocks of 20 each, and 1 block of 35 spearmen be better in core than what I have listed?

(5) Dark Riders - 110
Repeater Crossbows
The idea with these guys is to hunt war machines and generally cause a bit of havoc behind enemy lines along with the shades. Are two units of 5 harpies better?

SPECIAL
(10) Cold One Knights - 310
Full Command, Banner of Hag Grief
A hard hitting unit, that will probably run with/near the hydras. They also can work with the DR as necessary.

(6) Shades - 102
Additional Hand Weapons
The basic war machine hunters. I'm not sure if 6 is enough, but they hit so hard and are so accurate that I think they are almost mandatory.

RARE
War Hydra - 175

War Hydra - 175
Yeah...2 of em.

ARMY TOTAL: 2397

Asurai
01-08-2011, 06:45
The overall plan looks pretty good, but I as a player would be concerned with a few things. First off, in my calculations I found your unit of Cold One Knights to be 345 points, not 310. I don't know if the error is on my end or yours, but I would double check for yourself.

Your "Unkillable Lord" is indeed unkillable. I however, favor a setup that drops the Sword of Might, and the Dragonhelm. With those points, add Crimson Death, and you really have a Monster.

As for your sorceress, I am concerned she does not have a ward save as well. A +5 WS is pretty cheap, and may just save her life. She is your only Mage, after all.

I agree with you that the Cauldron of Blood is essential to a large Dark Elf force. However, bringing a Cauldron without any other Khainite units, to me, feels silly. Executioners, and even Witch Elves, are great units and serve a very special role in the Druchii Army.

As for your next concern, 25 might be to little, or just right. Depends who you are facing. 30 have never failed me. As for Crossbows, I don't tend to bring shields. A unit of 10 can not be expected to hold combat long enough, against anything serious, to merit the points expended on shields. Three units might be to much, or just right, depending on who you face.

As for your Cold Ones, a unit of 10 will pack a punch. Most Druchii generals that favor the Knights, will recommend 12-14 Knights, with full Command, and the Banner of Hag Graef. I would recommend this as well, but without the Champion upgrade. No sense spending that many points for +1 attack, unless he is guarding a Hero/Lord level character. Again, check the points in your list.

2 War Hydras. Enough said. Be sure to run them together, but I much prefer using them in support of my spears.

The last 2 I will clump together. The dark riders and shades both kinda can fill the same role. I struggle to give advice out on this, as I can't really decide myself. The dark rider's Vanguard move is essentially the same as the Shade's Scout, but they have lost a lot of what they were in 7th Edition. AHW Shades are a terror to deal with, killing War Machine crew and Fast Cav alike. They are however, expensive for what they do. Harpies have slightly improved, if you choose to bring harpies to hunt war machines (or lone characters), bring at least 6 in a pack, as that is the max that can attack the war machine at once. In the end, as far as agile units go, I would probably stick to Shades and Harpies over Dark Riders to fill the roles of War Machine hunting, Character hunting, and hero moments (suicide).

That is all I can comment on. Take it or leave it, in the end it's usually more fun to experiment for yourself!

Y'he Sha'is
01-08-2011, 13:03
OK, with some very good advice, I've updated the list to the best of my ability. Obviously, the points really don't let me get everything that I want to, but I think it's a decent middleground.

Things I would still like to get in the list:
1. A ward save for the sorceress. However, at this point I only have 10 points to play with to stay under the 25% cap, so I would have to burn some points from my Lord. Another option would be to run 2 level 2s, and rely on the dagger to power the spells a bit more. Opinions?
2. Another unit of scout/warmachine hunters. I like redundancy in the lists, and right now all i have is 1 unit of 6 shades to scout for me. I think a unit of 5 harpies could be useful, but the points really don't allow it yet.
3. I am considering taking a unit of black guard or witches in place of one of the units of spearmen, for variety and for modelling, but I am not a fan of either of the current models, so I'm still debating. Perhaps corsairs could serve that role as well. I just haven't figured out the points yet.

Anyway, the updated list:

LORDS
Dreadlord - 305
Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Pendant of Khaeleth, Crown of Command, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Dark Pegasus Mount
The basic unkillable lord. His job is to find that high strength deadly unit, and hold them up for a good portion of the game. I like this build out, and he hasn't really failed me. I don't usually expect him to kill anything, so I stay pretty defensive with him. I will consider the Crimson Death idea though.

Supreme Sorceress - 285
Level 4, Sacrificial Dagger
Still can't find the points necessary to give her a ward save (I'm assuming 15 points is enough, but that cuts into my lord pretty deeply). Would 2 level 2 ladies be as decent?


HEROES
Death Hag - 225
Battle Standard Bearer, Cauldron of Blood
This is still good.


CORE
(30) Dark Elf Spearmen - 225
Full Command, Shields

(30) Dark Elf Spearmen - 225
Full Command, Shields
I feel much more comfortable with 30. Now I question are 2 units necesssary? I would accept another idea that lets me exchange one unit of spearmen for another infantry unit. I was thinking black guard or witches, but the models are kinda 'eh' at this point. However, I am open to conversions, so that is potentially an idea. Perhaps corsairs could be more effective?

(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 100

(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 100

(10) Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 100
I kept 3 units of 10. One unit is primarily my dagger fodder (they do shoot, but you get my point I think), and the other units actually do stuff. I would be willing to drop a unit of crossbowmen for another suggestion, or to fit in a unit of harpies and an upgraded infantry unit (BG or witches or whatever).


SPECIAL
(12) Cold One Knights - 383
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Hag Grief
I've buffed this unit to 12, and fixed the points (my bad). I can see the idea behind 17, but I get nervous when a unit costs this much. They are relatively resilient, but still have T3, so they are a rather big target. I would like some more distractions floating around to take a bit of the pressure off early, but I can't find the points, so they are currently 12 (in 2x6 formation).

(6) Shades - 102
Additional Hand Weapons
I like these guys, but they are expensive. Units of 8 are probably more efficient, but I can't find the points.


RARE
War Hydra - 175

War Hydra - 175
Yeah...still 2 of em.

tmarichards
01-08-2011, 15:40
I think you've added the Dreadlord up wrong, I make him 300pts.