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Welfstar
29-07-2011, 20:06
Scenario:

You're a High Elf player. You're preparing for a game against a Skaven player.

Question:

What lore(s) do you choose for yourself?

Jolly Puggles
29-07-2011, 20:10
Lore of Death. Straight up.

Character snipe plus Doom = lots of Skaven running away.

TheDrugLordX
29-07-2011, 23:49
Lore of Death. Straight up.

Character snipe plus Doom = lots of Skaven running away.

However, if you know you're facing a screaming bell the lore of death sniping capabilities become very inefficient, even bad maybe. Considering skavens high initiative values across the board, the purple sun also has little use.

It depends alot on what he's playing. Lore of life is very powerful if he plays with large bunker units for his characters. It also grants valuable buffs for your units, making it harder for him to wear your elite units down.

While I've never met the lore of fire myself (I'm a skaven player, mind you) in 8th edition, I think it could be really nasty against us. Fireball quickly takes care of any hellpits he brings, the lore contains many spells for dealing with hordes, and forcing extra panic tests (the burning head) is never something the skaven player wants, especially if you force it on several units at the same time!

Lore of shadow, however, is always a solid choice. While not perhaps the best against the skaven, debuffs (enfeebling foe/withering) combined with killy troops or killing spells (mystifying miasma + pit of shades/penumbral pendulum) quickly decimates the key units in a skaven army, whilst beeing the (probably) best lore for a high elven army overall.

Yrrdead
30-07-2011, 01:54
High Magic.....seriously. I've played against HE a bit recently and against Life, Shadow and High. High Magic was easily the most devastating. Had a couple of casters. Was dropping Shield on a couple units with single dice. Forcing me to save dice to dispell drain magic at end of the phase. It was brutal. Phoenix is awesome against T3 hordes and easy to cast. Also RIP on 11 is mean. Vaul's unmaking destroying banners. Curse of Arrow Attraction.... Screw High Magic.

sulla
30-07-2011, 03:44
High magic is great. Luckily most HE players don't like it.

russellmoo
30-07-2011, 04:39
The only difference is- normally shadow is always a great lore to take- except against Skaven- their high initiative, low toughness, low strength- make most of the spells in this lore a lot less effective- Str 9 is a waste when you already wound on a 2+ without it-

So just go with any lore but shadow-

Tarian
30-07-2011, 04:56
Shadow is actually a great utility lore even against Skaven.

Mindrazor for big beasties/Bells/etc.
Withering/Enfeebling against everything else
Miasma to nail shooters/debuff before combat, etc.

Is Shadow the killy lore of Doom against Skaven? No, it's not a killy lore on its own, what it does do is "buff" your units by debuffing theirs.

That said, Shadow + High can be just mean, as -d3 T + Flames of the Phoenix = Horde in trouble.

Only spells that don't do well are Pit of Shades and Pendulum, and I don't even like the Pendulum personally, and I like the PoS, just from the idea of dropping things down a hole.

shakedown47
30-07-2011, 22:22
I'd go High Magic, Heavens (the best all-around lore in the game, IMO) or Beasts if you take enough low-level mages for Wyssan's spam.

abdulaapocolyps
30-07-2011, 23:13
Iv found high elf players get frustrated with there magic lores when they are subtle,perhaps its the lack of artillery or th misleading fluff that makes some of them to want the big 'ha,take that!' Spell,which is not what high magic is all about.I fricking HATE facing high magic.
A mixture is probably best against skaven but I recommend fire,no one uses it,perhaps cos the spell attribute sucks,but its never failed me against big hordes.

w3rm
31-07-2011, 00:47
Shadow! Take away thier speed, thier I, thier toughness so your str 3 arrows and spears can cut through them like cheese!

Von Wibble
31-07-2011, 11:47
High Magic.....seriously. I've played against HE a bit recently and against Life, Shadow and High. High Magic was easily the most devastating. Had a couple of casters. Was dropping Shield on a couple units with single dice. Forcing me to save dice to dispell drain magic at end of the phase. It was brutal. Phoenix is awesome against T3 hordes and easy to cast. Also RIP on 11 is mean. Vaul's unmaking destroying banners. Curse of Arrow Attraction.... Screw High Magic.

Throwing a single dice is very risky given the loss of concentration rules and the 3+ to cast. If he fails then that's his magic phase crippled for a turn. Curse of arrow attraction is also overrated unless you take a lot of shooting - and since archers and RBTs are severely overpriced that is unlikely.

That said, I agree high magic is good against skaven in general, Drain Magic, Vauls Unmaking, Shield and Flames are all great. I would also consider Fire if HPAs are a problem - it also has a spell that deals a S4 hit on all models in a unit if it moves.

Shadow is always good - the power of this lore is in the hex spells (I don't rate the pit, which can miss, the pendulum is worse, and the mind razor too expensive).

Kevlar
02-08-2011, 00:49
Skaven can field a lot of unbreakable or ITP units. Death isn't that great against such an army. While sniping chars can work, I would expect ward saves and MR stacked on important characters/units. So while you may take out the odd engineer or chieftan, the warlord and grey seer will be practically immune to spirit leech.

Oseru
02-08-2011, 05:33
If you're running a combat oriented army, Shadow is the best lore.

- The debufs for strength and toughness are great. Keep you alive ( -S ) and help kill him ( -T )

- Mindrazor is quite possibly the best spell in the game, as it will allow you to erase units that are not steadfast. It makes spear elves fearsome.

- For troops with a 5 WS facing troops with 3 WS (which you see quite a bit of in HE v Skaven) Miasma is a great defensive spell, as it will force your oppenant to get 5's to hit you. Hard to kill T3 elites when hit only 33% of the time.

- The Pendulum is a not bad spell for killing a bell as it lacks the direct damage quality.

That is 4 very effective spells de/buffs, 2 ok damage spells (required initiative checks, not necessarily a skaven weak spot), and a flight spell that is questionable in value.

Akkaryn
02-08-2011, 08:15
Granted I've only played two games with my Skaven against High Elves.

But the combination of the banner of Saphery and the lore of fire contributed significantly to me losing both games. Granted every turn he got lucky and got 3 extra power dice from the banner so he was pretty much guarentee'd at least one spell a turn to get off.

Normally it was Flame Cage or The one that does D3 Hits per rank. If they get some half decent roles that last spell can take a 50 man unit down to half strength

decker_cky
02-08-2011, 08:30
Lore of fire is criminally underrated. I was absolutely flabbergasted when I saw that flaming cage was a hex and had it cast into combat. Wonderful stuff.

The D3 per rank hits is great too. Fireball is nice. Flaming sword is great, particularly for HE who already hit a ton (can make you autowound with several of your units!).

The other spells aren't mindblowing, but they're decent enough.