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Kayosiv
31-07-2011, 01:02
My friend and I have a 2k doubles tournament coming up in about a month. We each make and combine a 1000 point army. Each army must have a character in it less than 250 points. It will be our first war-hammer game in many months. I am very inexperienced with 8th edition, although my friend has about 25 games under his belt. We put together this list last night and I wanted some feedback.

We're at 1998 Total total so far, at 999 each.

Lords, 498. We had a lot of discussion about whether to take a grey seer or a Slann. We settled on the grey seer because he was almost as powerful and costed less. While a warlord on a bonebreaker is very deadly, we decided the better survivability of an Oldblood would serve us well even if it meant we lose some offensive punch. The tournament rules also drastically weaken the Slann while not touching the Grey Seer.

Grey Seer: 3+ ward save, 1 use only, makes you stupid for 1 turn if it works. We would have loved to have given this guy more protection, but we just couldn't find the points
Old Blood: Cold One, halberd, Heavy armor with 4+ ward save, venom of firefly frog (poison attacks). I wanted to give this guy a great weapon, but we're 2 points short, and I felt +1 strength wasn't worth losing out on extra protection. There was talk of downgrading the oldblood to a scar veteran, but we didn't really have the points if we wanted to keep the assassin and give him adequate protection. The Oldblood is going to be the army general so we don't want him dying.

Heroes, 355.
Assassin: Potion of Strength, all wounds multiplied into 2 wounds. This is a tried and true assassin build for my friend, although he has another more consistent assassin who isn't so "one hit wonder" that he can try as well.
BsB scar veteran: Cold one, light armor, Dragon Helm, Crown of Command, Luck Stone. Build to be tough as nails and stick in combat, I've had bad experiences in 8th with my BSB running away and automatically dying. The stubborn crown will hopefully stop that. I really want to give him a great weapon, but as few points as it is I'm having trouble scrounging them up. Possibly remove 1 skink?

Core: 694
24 Saurus warriors with full command. The backbone. This was orgionally a unit of 30 that we had to par down due to costs. 24 still seems like a decent number and they'll make a fine anvil.
10 storm vermin with storm banner Their purpose is 2 fold. To hold the storm banner and offer protection for the grey seer against shooting and fast but weak wizard hunters. They are kept bare bones on purpose to keep them cheap. I'd prefer if they never saw combat with anything ranked.
11 skinks with musician. I just wanted some shooting because I feel our force doesn't have enough. As our list evolved and our cannons evolved into a hellpit and our jezzail team turned into storm vermit, we found ourselves short on shooting. So I took out so saurus and added these guys.
30 clanrats with shields and a warpfire thrower weapon team. A bunker for the assassin and possibly my BsB depending on how things go, they'll provide another unit with ranks to assist our heroes and monsters when they need to cancel steadfast.

Special: 66
5 Chameleon skinks with champion This small expendable wizard and war machine hunter unit has never steered me wrong.

Rare: 385
Hellpit Abomination There was a lot of debale about whether a warp lightning cannon + doomwheel or a hellpit abomination was better. We finally decided on the hellpit so it would be a artillery and magic magnet and keep our heroes safe. Combined with the storm banner on turn one and we can only hope turn 2, plus the hellpit to shoot at once that is over, we're trusting it to keep our units/heroes safe until they can reach combat. Even if the hellpit never reaches combat it should earn back it's points in controlling whatever corner of the table we plop it on and being a missile magnet.
1 pack of 2 salamanders Overpowered as they are in 8th edition, we had to include some. The only reason I'm using 2 is because the tournament rules specifically limit them to 2 per force.

The list looks pretty solid but I have the following concerns.
We have a lot of points tied up in heroes.
Our army lacks artillery and shooting. We have quite a few templates, but no way to deal with big threats.
We lack any true "hammer" unit other than the erratic Hellpit. We tried to fit in cold one knights or rat ogres and just don't do it with our current build.

lovedinplaster
31-07-2011, 15:16
Although I love assassins and use two in my 2.5k list. Is he really important? I assume he's there for hero and wizard sniping? I think you'd be better off with a naked engineer with a doom rocket.. And or a unit of gutter runners. I could even see a unit of cold one cav being quite effective in this list

Kayosiv
31-07-2011, 20:00
Well we're at 1000 points each, not 2000 total, so we couldn't add Cold one Cavalry by removing the assassin. There is the possibility of exchanging him with a doom rocket wielding engineer. We could then use the extra points to get rid of the clanrat unit and make a 25ish strong unit of storm vermin so they can actually fight something.

I don't know the exact rules for a doom rocket, however I'm not sure it would be more useful than a warp lightning cannon that could shoot every turn.

Akkaryn
31-07-2011, 20:48
Are there any special composition rules in this tournament?

If you are following the normal rules then you are above the 25% allowed on lords. Your Grey Seer comes to 265 points.

I don't have my book near me but I do recall if you want to give a Seer a form of ward save at 1000 points the only one you can use is Seed of Rebirth to give a mild form of Regeneration.

Kayosiv
31-07-2011, 23:18
He should come out to 240+15 which is 255.

Akkaryn
01-08-2011, 10:01
Yes Apologies the 265 was a typo, but 255 is still above the 25% Lord allowance for a 1000 point army.

lovedinplaster
02-08-2011, 03:13
You can't even run a slann can you? He's over the points limit at 1000 Pts.. And with this in mind.. I dont see any problem running into a strong wizard.. Your grey seer should be one of the best on the table in any match up.. But he will die easily.. The assassin might be a priority.. But that s. Vermin unit is just points giveaway. Are you allowed two bsb in this configuration?

You'd be better off.. With a stronger unit of clanrats/ another unit.. Or even better.. Just 35 slaves

Kayosiv
02-08-2011, 05:40
You can't even run a slann can you? He's over the points limit at 1000 Pts.. And with this in mind.. I dont see any problem running into a strong wizard.. Your grey seer should be one of the best on the table in any match up.. But he will die easily.. The assassin might be a priority.. But that s. Vermin unit is just points giveaway. Are you allowed two bsb in this configuration?


I explained the point system poorly. We have 1,000 points each but the "army" is 2,000 points, meaning we get 500/500 Lord/hero between us and we are allowed to mix and match. So I could use a Slann it would just eat into the remaining points he could take a hero with.

Also, I have information after playing a warriors of chaos game yesterday.

His army consisted roughly of;
Level 4 Tzneech sorcerer on disk
BsB exalted hero
15 warriors, mark of khorne and halberds
15 warriors, mark of tzeench and shields
5 knights
5 knights
4 dragon ogres with extra hand weapons
5 dogs
5 dogs

Seeing the 5 units of super killyness across the table from us made me real worried, especially with the sorcerer backing them up.

The results are as such, massacre in our favor.

Observations: The assassin isn't going anywhere. I was skeptical about him until he made mincemeat of the dragon ogre unit. He earned his points back the moment he popped out and continued to contribute until he was killed (by being run down, not from damage).

My Oldblood might need a weapon with a bit more punch. Strength 6 poison was decent, and maybe I'm just biased because the only thing he attacked all game were the toughest infantry in the game with a 3+ 5+ save, but he seemed like he needed to either hit easier or get some more attacks.

My BSB scar veteran without question needs a better weapon. I just had him at strength 5 and that was NOT enough. Strength 6 minimum, and if I can afford to do it he's getting a great weapon.

The Warpfire thrower isn't worth it. We've decided to remove it and a few points to get a Warp Lightning cannon instead. It should yield better results due to it's longer range and similar purpose.

Trains_Get_Robbed
02-08-2011, 08:36
Just curious how your Heroes/Lords can join each other units, you are after all a unfaithful alliance (or whatever the term is), which also means splitting dispell dice, etc. . . suprised you guys did so well.

I would also put the Crown of Command on the Old Blood. Best setup for Old Blood is the +4 attacks and St. Potion as well as posion. Or the Stubborn SoAH +1++5 my friend Maxwell runs.

sabastionz
02-08-2011, 16:54
no slann? :confused:

Kayosiv
03-08-2011, 00:28
Just curious how your Heroes/Lords can join each other units, you are after all a unfaithful alliance (or whatever the term is), which also means splitting dispell dice, etc. . . suprised you guys did so well.

I would also put the Crown of Command on the Old Blood. Best setup for Old Blood is the +4 attacks and St. Potion as well as posion. Or the Stubborn SoAH +1++5 my friend Maxwell runs.

At this point, there was enough Lord Points to give him one unless I take him off his cold one, which seems foolish considering a strength 4 attack and +2 armor is totally worth 30 points, especially if it also gives him movement 7.

The Skaven player is talking about removing his ward save on they grey seer which would give me a few points to mess around with so his build is not set on my old blood.

All those rules for "actual" alliances in the book are out. This is just a 2000 point force, except it's made up of 1,000 points of other armies. It is exactly like 1 army but you may take from 2 books up to 1,000 points from each.


no slann? :confused:

Our Slann is a clanrat.

lovedinplaster
03-08-2011, 01:54
Nice, that's why I run two assassins in my 2.5k skaven army. Btw.. Lizzy's and rats are my two favorite armies so I'm liking this build.. It's too bad you havnt put a skink chief bsb with skavenpelt banner in a... Clanrat unit lol. Frienzied skaven that hate skaven.. Haha.

Throw a great weapon or halberd on your oldblood and vet.

Kayosiv
03-08-2011, 07:52
Oldblood has a halberd, strength 6 seems like enough.
Scar Veteran has nothing and based on data from our first test game, is without question getting a great weapon. I feel like initiative 4 is worth preserving, but initiative 3 isn't and would rather have the +1 strength over the halberd on the BSB.

There was brief talk about a skink chief with the banner of skaven pelts in a unit of rat ogres and then casting death frenzy on the unit. We dismissed the idea as "silly and probably against the rules."