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NTJ2010
01-08-2011, 07:49
I'm starting Vampire counts and the Necrarch fluff has really caught my eye so I decided to focus my Vampire purely on casting (and keep him in the back avoiding combat).

The list also uses Skeletons as the main core, I know Ghouls are better so I'm planning on tinkering around with the exact core units but here's the list, mainly just looking for huge flaws...

Lords:
Vampire Lord: +1 Casting level
Skull Staff
Crown of the Damned
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead (may exchange for the ghoul one if I do a ghoul overhaul, or drop it all together if mixed)
Master of the Black Arts
450 points (seems like a lot so not too sure)

Heroes:
Wight King BSB with Drakenhof Banner (I know not fluffy but I'd name it something different since regenerating grave guard still seems fluffy) w/ shield
225 pts

Necromancer:
Dispell Scroll and Invocation (might throw him up on the corpse cart)
180 pts

Core:
2x 30 Skeletons with full command (one with War Banner, one with Banner of the Endless Nightmare so hopefully both are taking one less wound a turn)
285 pts Each

20 Zombies
80 pts

Special:
40 Grave Guard w/ Great Weapons
Full Command with the Banner of the Barrows
595 pts

Rare:
4 Cairn Wraiths (w/ Tomb Banshee)
225 pts

Varghulf
175 pts

I think it has enough to hold up units, it does lack combat characters (although I'd expect that with necrarchs) but only has one unit that can really win a fight by itself. *shrug*
Any advice (short of "start over") is appreciated.

0604854
01-08-2011, 13:02
First drop zombies they are completely useless, second drop the wraith unit and include wraiths as hereo's (see the new white dwarf), drop varghulf consider Terrorgheist (again see new white dwarf), 40 Grave guard is alot of points consider 30 instead and I prefer the royal standard of strigos (better statistically) Drop skelies for ghouls alot more effective for points, drop skull staff not needed, drop dark acolyte instead have forbidden lore and choose the lore of light (trust me much better for boosting your units and you still get invocation) also you need a ward save for the lord (talisman of preservation is best).

NTJ2010
01-08-2011, 17:08
I have the new white dwarf, and I'll consider the unit swaps (although I was wondering can the hero version stand and shoot like the old version can?)
Also my lord does have a ward, Crown of the damned.

Morax
01-08-2011, 17:54
Zombies have a use, its called a power dice battery for a lore of death loremaster (which with your current list I would highly suggest).

Wraith heroes are one trick ponies as a unit of skeles with 5 of them will quickly be countered with any combat hero with the sword of Anti-heroes. Cheap and highly effective. I'd stick with the rare unit of wraiths but drop the banshee. The banshee makes the unit less effective as a combat unit and really doesn't bring enough shooting to make them dual purpose. If you really want a banshee take one as a hero (see the latest white dwarf). Opperating on her own she is more agile and can avoid combat easier and she doesn't stop the wraiths from doing what the are supposed to, ie killing crap in combat.

I haven't seen the rules for the new terrorgheist but I am highly scepticle that it will be able to survive long enough to reach combat. It relies on a 6+ save and its T6 which imo is not enough given its huge base size. The Varghulf can still act as a flanker, has a better save, almost as high of a toughness and it will still allow fast moving flankers (cairn wraiths) to march while not near the general.

40 Graveguard are an amazing expenditure of points. As dead or fled is the only way for your opponent to get vp's dead is what he will have to settle for and good luck with that. I will say that they need a little tweak but that comes from tweaking the vamp not the unit.

Ghouls are more points effective but Skeles have a place as well. Themely they both work with necrarchs, skeles argueably better. On the table skeletons need a lot of support where ghouls can deal with less. That is why most people favor ghouls over the skeles. I would suggest one of each as without the skeletons you are rather low on banners and B&G would see your opponent going after the graveguard to the exclusion of all else.

The Vamp Lord.

Vampire Lord: +1 Casting level (Always a god thing if you have the points to do it)
Skull Staff (Alittle over the top, also there are better things to spend these points on)
Crown of the Damned (Here is your 4++ but you must be careful to keep him near the bsb, stupidity in your only caster can be dicey in the extreme)
Dark Acolyte (forbidden lore would be better here as knowing a whole lore trumps +1 to cast every time.)
Lord of the Dead (Either this or summon ghouls are both superfluous, 30 is about right for either block to be effective. Drop this if you need the points for something else.)
Master of the Black Arts (Always a smart investment.)
450 points (If you are only going with one Vamp you got to make him count and doing so costs a bunch of points, don't be overly worried.)

Other then what I mentioned above I would suggest droping the staff and taking the helm of command and the charmed shield. I would also suggest taking forbidden lore instead of dark acolyte and take the lore of Death.

The charmed shield offers just an extra bit of protection for the model that the entire army hindges on and when it comes to that ever bit is worth it. A 2+ look out sir followed by a 4+ ward can only be helped with discounting the first hit. As he is a caster vamp you will want to avoid combat as much as possible and so that first hit will likely come from a template of some kind (I'm looking at you mister canon ball). Discounting that one sneaky cannon ball can mean the difference between an army crumbling and one smashing other people's faces.

The helm of commandment gives you additional use out of your lord that is staying out of combat. Everything becomes nastier with WS7 and the graveguard/cairn wraiths/ghouls/skeletons are no exception. Every unit in your army works better with it so why not (also it is probably one of the best magical items around). Combined with the banner of the barrows you should see your grave guard hitting on 2's, pretty nifty huh.

Forbidden lore (death) gives you a lot in a small package. Turns your zombies into something awesome (see above), makes fear something decent again (see Doom and Darkness), and gives you a way of handling killy characters/monsters that you otherwise lack (see spirit leech/caress of laniph/fate of bjuna). Soulblight is quite possibly the most useful hex in the game so shouldn't be discounted either. All in all Death is a very handy lore for an enterprising Necrarch to know, not bad in the fluff department either.

*Edit* It seems I have forgotten to tell you how lore of Death makes zombies a power dice battery. Whip a Purple Sun through them and you will quickly generate a boat load of dice, usually more then you spent to cast the spell. Through a couple of Invocations of Nehek with the dice you generate and you will have a larger unit then what you started with and dice left over most of the time. Net win!

Tomalock
01-08-2011, 18:13
Not to try and force you into a more cookie-cutter build, but here are a couple suggestions, largely based on my personal experiences. Keep in mind that I go to tournaments (two major GTs and a RT level tourny in the last month) so my thoughts are more towards that end. If you are going for a more themed list, or one built around units you like or think would be more fun, then don't take what I say as seriously.


For the lord:

Take helm of commandment, it will make even skeletons reasonable in combat to a degree (although ghouls are so much better). I agree with dropping the skull staff, its not necessary, especially as a level 4. I would consider dropping down to a level 3 and taking forbidden lore with vampires. While light is nice, and I run it on my 2nd lord in my list, I also almost never cast anything from it. You are going to find that upkeeping your army is going to take the majority of your dice and having all the spells in Vampires is really really good. Danse is one of the best spells in the game for us, so having it every game is amazing. Overall the entire lore is very good, there isn't a bad spell in there. I run my lord naked defensively, she is in a bunker and is easy to avoid serious combat. If you really want to defend against the odd chance she fails a look out sir, put the Opal Amulet on her. Failing stupidity is too risky for your only caster.

BSB:

Nothing unusual there

Necro:

Eh, they are ok, I don't know about the corpse cart, but to each their own. I'd probably just make the bsb a vampire with avatar of death and another power to taste (hatred, terror, or +1 combat res are nice) with the points.

Core:

Drop the zombies, they just are not worth the points, especially since you can create them for free. Put those points into more skellies if you are keeping them. If you go the ghoul route, make two ghoul units of 28-29 w/ a ghast and a bunker unit of 19-20ish. That gives you two front-line units and a bunker that can handle the small stuff that gets around your line while still protecting your general. If you swap to summon ghouls you can bump any of them up higher as needed. I think you will be better served taking both flaming banners on your skeletons. You can always raise more, so an extra wound isn't a big deal. Being able to take down a hydra/HPA with skeletons is a big deal, especially if you can get vanhels off on them in combat and have them knock off regen before your real combat units strike. If you do that, put the extra points into more skeletons or make a 3rd small unit to act as your general's bunker.

Specials:

The Grave Guard are standard build and will do well for you. 40 is a lot (2 units of 24-30 would be even better, giving one the +1 hit banner and the other hatred), but if you like that size, its not going to go away quickly. This is the unit that will benefit the most from having the helm of commandment in your army. You are then 2+ to hit and 2+ to wound against almost all units in the game. Not to mention if you get vanhel's off on them they are striking at initiative 3 and have rerolls to hit for that turn. Can anyone say ouch?

Rares:

I think you would be better off with 2 vargulfs in all honest. With Skaven being so prevalent now, small ethereal units just don't live that long. Granted not all armies can effectively deal with them, but I just don't feel comfortable personally taking such small units for those kind of points anymore in 8th. If you are playing for fun and like the model, then the terrorgheist is really cool. If you are playing in a more competitive environment, I wouldn't recommend it. That base is just too big for its own good. Warmachines are not going to miss it (you could place the cannonball start point on the front of the base and still be almost promised a hit) and its defensive stats are lackluster at best. Additionally it is not a vampire, so you can't just throw it out on a flank and let it harass the enemy without a babysitter.


I hope all of that helps at least a little bit! If you are truly going with the theme, might want to scrap the rares entirely and put in black knights. However that would not do much to increase your combat effectiveness. Really get helm of commandment on your general, that alone will fill in some of the gaps. Everything else is more a matter of taste and play style.

NTJ2010
01-08-2011, 21:47
Yeah this advice helps a lot. I'll keep working on the list (gonna by my rulebook and batalion box hopefully tonight so I can get some core and of course a non-borrowed rulebook, but I want to have a list to build towards so I'm not buying aimlessly).

The main thing I'm mixed on at this point is ghouls vs. skeletons. I'll probably just do mixed units and try to collect a lot of both. I like skeletons of fluff and appearance but, except B&G I agree Ghouls are the more competitive choice. So I'll probably just get a decent amount of both so I have options on those (take your guys' advice)

Thank you guys.

baphomael
03-08-2011, 16:42
It really is a crying shame that many take ghouls in preference to skeles. GW dropped the ball there - the signature undead unit being overshadowed by a more attractive option for similar points. What is a VC army without blocks of skeletons and zombies? Seems to be counter intuitive to make the most iconic undead units barely worth taking.

Alright for Strigoi themes I guess.