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Tzeentch Lover
01-08-2011, 12:38
In the past, I've always played that you don't resolve a miscast for spells that are miscast, but are then dispelled.* This seemed to make sense since the spell is not cast after a successful Dispell and it gives you opponent a tactical choice of letting the spell through and hope you blow up, or not risking letting the spell go.

However, in the latest WD battle report(VC vs Empire), the Empire player miscast a spell on a fulcrum and resolved both miscasts after the spell was successfully dispelled.

Am I playing this right, and is WD just being WD again? Or am I missing something and dispelled miscasts still miscast?

*Case in point of spells miscast without IF: Hellheart, Pandemonium, and(most recently)Fulcrums.

GodlessM
01-08-2011, 12:45
Right there's are two things here:

- You cannot normally dispel miscast spells as they are also cast with irresistable force.
- In Storm of Magic, Cataclysm spells can be miscast but not cast with irresistable force so can be dispelled, how the miscast still stands; they dispel the spells effects, not the backlash of energy.

Mr_Rose
01-08-2011, 13:43
In the past, I've always played that you don't resolve a miscast for spells that are miscast, but are then dispelled.* This seemed to make sense since the spell is not cast after a successful Dispell and it gives you opponent a tactical choice of letting the spell through and hope you blow up, or not risking letting the spell go.

However, in the latest WD battle report(VC vs Empire), the Empire player miscast a spell on a fulcrum and resolved both miscasts after the spell was successfully dispelled.

Am I playing this right, and is WD just being WD again? Or am I missing something and dispelled miscasts still miscast?

*Case in point of spells miscast without IF: Hellheart, Pandemonium, and(most recently)Fulcrums.
Do you also play that spells which miscast but don't achieve the casting value are also immune to the miscast effect?

T10
01-08-2011, 14:18
Seems to me that success or failure when casting the spell is separate from the miscast. The wizard suffers the effect of the miscast.

Chicago Slim
02-08-2011, 03:58
I'd have to give a careful read to sort out either the spirit or the letter of the rules on this one (and I'm not doing that now, because my housemate is using only current rulebook at the moment...)

In previous editions, I'd have said that the spirit (and, I think, the letter) of the rules was that miscasts only count if the spell goes off. I'm not sure that's true, even in the spirit, of 8th ed rules.

Lord Inquisitor
02-08-2011, 04:19
Hmm? In previous editions a miscast automatically failed the spell in addition to the miscast. Even if 2 6s were also rolled.

I don't know that a successful casting is required for a miscast. I would have said personally that you take your miscast as a consequence of rolling the required value and whether the spell goes off or not is immaterial.

In any case, if the batrep plays it that way, that's the nearest we're going to get to a studio resolution unless there is a FAQ. While white dwarf batreps have a history of being unreliable for rules, in such a case where there is no rules either way on the subject, I'm willing to accept it as intent.

FashaTheDog
02-08-2011, 04:25
There are various ways to miscast and not have irresistible force as you pointed out, such as Warriors of Chaos' Pandaemonium or Daemons' Banner of Sundering.

As for miscasts, they occur upon resolution of spell effect. A successful dispel prevents the spell from occurring (page 34-36). Considering this chain of events I would play that a dispel prevents the miscast from occurring, but that is merely my opinion on the matter considering the matter is not directly addressed in the main rule, WoC, or DoC FAQS. It could just as easily go the other way as Lord Inquisitor pointed out the battle fiction, I mean report, is the closest thing we have to intent on this, although GW gets basic rules wrong in these things all the time so I would take it with a grain of salt and defer to your group and/or TO to decide the actual resolution until something more official comes along.

T10
02-08-2011, 17:35
Consider the fact that Wizards can suffer Miscasts even if he hasn't cast a spell (e.g. due to one of the Hellcannon's misfire results). It does not seem to be as closely tied to the successful casting of a spell as you suggest.

NTJ2010
02-08-2011, 23:34
In a normal game, without special rules: the miscast and irresistible force are linked for basically all purposes.
If there is a special ability that causes miscasts on doubles, or some other reason, is in effect then it goes by the wording (Some say for example "if a spell is cast with doubles" or "if a spell casting attempt contains doubles") that will tell you if the dispelling affects the miscast.

In Storm of Magic, miscasts and irresistible force are disconnected for cataclysmic spells. Even if you fail to cast the spell double 6s result in a miscast (I don't remember the page number), so dispelling the spell does not affect if there is a miscast or not. As far as I know at least.