PDA

View Full Version : Confused/misguided about the Tomb Banshee's Howl



Vengeance2410
02-08-2011, 17:10
My confusion is in 2 parts, Firstly:

Can Skaven use their Strength in Numbers v.s the Howl???
In the FaQ it says they can, but, once I take a look at theSkaven FaQ, this answer makes no sense...

In the Skaven FaQ it states that Strength in numbers:
"Units with the strength in numbers rule add their current rank bonus to their leadership vaule for any LEADERSHIP TEST".

In the VC FaQ, just below the above mentioned question states that the Howl is NOT a Ld test- so why would they get their Strength in Numbers bonus v.s the howl attack?

Second part to my confusion:

If the rules printed in WD (concerning the Banshee's Howl) override/update those printed in the VC Army book- does this mean that when using the Banshee's howl attack against a target, you use the unit's OWN Ld, ignoring modifiers form general, strength in numbers, characters in the unit etc. As no mention of taking into account possible Ld modifiers are made in the new Ghostly Howl rules...

It all makes my head hurt >.<

So- does anyone know the official ruling on this???

Sexiest_hero
02-08-2011, 17:14
The rule in the WD pertain to the Hero choices only. They have a kind of "Heroic scream"


As for the scaven slaves, If the faq says they can use strength in numbers then they can.

Vengeance2410
02-08-2011, 18:16
But that would conflict with another FaQ question's answer- the one that states that the Howl is not a Ld test...

On the latter point (that seems much easier to clear up) the Hero Banshee's Howl ignores Ld modifiers?

Mr_Rose
02-08-2011, 18:24
From the FAQ:
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.

Vengeance2410
02-08-2011, 19:16
Interesting- where is this FAQ from?

Mr_Rose
02-08-2011, 19:53
Main rulebook FAQ v1.4, "general principles" section, p. 4 second column.

Vengeance2410
02-08-2011, 20:04
Ah I see now...
So in summary- the Hero Tomb Banshee's Howl attack uses the unmodified Ld of the unit (as defined above).

Assumingly its the same case for the Terrorgheist's Death Scream too?

Yrrdead
02-08-2011, 21:07
But that would conflict with another FaQ question's answer- the one that states that the Howl is not a Ld test...

On the latter point (that seems much easier to clear up) the Hero Banshee's Howl ignores Ld modifiers?


From the FAQ:
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.


Not sure why you included this Mr. Rose. At no point in the Ghostly Howl speical rule is unmodified leadership mentioned. So That FAQ doesn't apply in this case at all. Just to get people on the same page.


Ghostly Howl(Tomb Banshee only): A Tomb Banshee can use her Ghostly Howl [...]To resolve the attack , roll 2D6+2. For each point by which the roll beats the target's Leadership, the target unit suffers 1 Wound. Use the highest Leadership value ( including a leading character's, General within 12", etc).[...]

Vengeance2410
02-08-2011, 21:39
Yrrdead, no mention of " Use the highest Leadership value ( including a leading character's, General within 12", etc)" is made in the most recent rules in White Dwarf...

Yrrdead
02-08-2011, 22:48
The recent rules are only in regards to the Hero model Banshee.

The fact that they left that line out isn't that big of a deal(imo). What is the leadership value of a unit? Take a base value (highest value you can get either in the unit or with Inspiring Presence) + Any and all positive modifiers - Any and all negative modifiers. Which you already know.

Blkc57
03-08-2011, 10:45
I started reading this thread and shouted out "My God! Did they rewrite Ghostly Howl?!"

I ran over to my roomate's bookcase stole his copy of WD and poured over the Ghostly Howl entry, only to discover that in fact they changed nothing. I'm not quite sure where you guys are getting this unmodified stuff from.

Von Wibble
03-08-2011, 11:17
Yrrdead, no mention of " Use the highest Leadership value ( including a leading character's, General within 12", etc)" is made in the most recent rules in White Dwarf...

That doesn't matter. Unless the rule specificaly states to use a models unmodified leadership, you can use inspiring presence, SIN, or any other boosts available to you.

So, to answer the second part of the OP, the rules in WD do nothing to override the VC book as they are the same, no mention of unmodified Ld is given.

However, I don't know the answer to the first question as it is contradictory.

Blkc57
03-08-2011, 12:40
There are only two ways to fathom the Offical FAQ concerning ghostly howl

1) GW staff believe that any and all modifiers should apply to Ghostly Howl

2) GW staff were totally drunk that night they wrote the FAQs.

Vengeance2410
03-08-2011, 13:28
Aye- the latter seems to be the case... Ha ha!

stiggie
04-08-2011, 06:04
this sounds sort of similar to the doom of malant'ai 40k rule.. where you roll 3 dice, subtract the targets LD and they take that many wounds..

people seem to believe that just because it involves using the LD stat it automatically becomes a LD test.

strength in numbers only works on LD tests.. the banshees ability is not a LD test it just rolls 2D6+2 then subtracts the opponents LD..

therefore it works on modified LD.. but SiN only works specifically on LD tests so doesnt effect it

Blkc57
04-08-2011, 20:29
strength in numbers only works on LD tests.. the banshees ability is not a LD test it just rolls 2D6+2 then subtracts the opponents LD..

therefore it works on modified LD.. but SiN only works specifically on LD tests so doesnt effect it

Too bad Games Workshop does not agree with you. Its always been my one peeve with people who try to bring up the SiN only works for leaderhsip tests because GW went and created a situation where in fact SiN works on something that is not a leadership test...Ghostly Howl!

Its also makes me laugh that the two are literally right next to each other which means whoever wrote the FAQ knew exactly what he was doing



Q. Is the Tomb Banshee’sGhostly Howl attack roll a Leadership
test and if so can a battle standard allow it to be re-rolled? (p49)
A. No to both questions.

Q. Can Skaven use their Strength In Numbers bonus against the
Banshee’sGhostly Howl? (p49)
A. Yes.

Like I said its laid out pretty clear that SiN applies to Ghostly howl (doesn't matter if its contradictory the way they worded the SiN/Ghostly Howl FAQ is blatantly clear), so you have little choice other than to accept their rule or make one up for yourself.