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Kjell
01-06-2005, 20:52
I'm going to make this short and sweet. I had a long post typed up, but I decided that it was too boring. :p

So, on to the suggestion:

Fluff:
A Rubric Marine is nothing more than a spirit possessing a suit of armour, and thus has to be nearly completely hacked or blown apart to be destroyed. As if this was not enough their Sorcerers extend their wills into their former brethren, further empowering them with a single-minded purpose that borders on the absurd. As a result, hardly even the heaviest of weaponry can cause a Rubric Marine to break its stride.

Rules:
All Is Dust
If a Sorcerer is accompanying a squad of Thousands Sons with the Rubric, the Rubric Marines are immune to Instant Death caused by attacks with a Strength value of double their Toughness.


Fluff, continuation:
Should one be downed, however, the Sorcerer accompanying them can pull the spirit back from the currents of the Warp and try to force the lifeless suit of armour back up on its feet so that it may rejoin its former comrades. This is not always possible as the suit may be entirely lacking a torso or a leg, but many times the enemies of the Thousands Sons have witnessed in horror how the automatons have risen again, to continue their steady advance, laying down bolter fire as if nothing had happened.

Rules:
Bound Forever
Furthermore, when accompanied by a Sorcerer, Rubric Marines that suffer a wound may make a D6 roll. On a 6+, they disregard that wound. This obviously works in addition to their Armour Save but it does not work against attacks or effects that ignore Invulnerable Saves or cause Instant Death due to any reason other than having a Strength value of double the Rubric Marine's Toughness.


Yup, All Is Dust reborn plus a little extra, all hopefully not too unfair. This should make Sorcerers somewhat more desirable. No points cost increase or anything, just these two additional rules. Thoughts? Comments? I'd be more than happy for any kind of feedback. :) And, please, do point out any fuzzy wording. :p

Easy E
01-06-2005, 21:22
Look it's the Thousand Necrons!

I think a point cost adjustment maybe needed. No instant death on two wound models is a pretty big advantage. In addition, ignoring wounds is another significant advantage.

Kjell
01-06-2005, 21:32
I think a point cost adjustment maybe needed. No instant death on two wound models is a pretty big advantage. In addition, ignoring wounds is another significant advantage.
True, a points value increase may be needed. I'm going to leave that kind of thing to those who can actually playtest it, though. I'm much better at brainstorming, as I've said.


Look it's the Thousand Necrons!
I'm going to ignore that sentence. :p

grizzly ruin
01-06-2005, 22:12
Look it's the Thousand Necrons!

Honestly, he's not that far off the mark.

And not because of what you've posted btw.

I've always felt the TS resembled a sort of poor man's chaos necrons (in terms of the meta-design for the list).



Some ideas I had for the TS.

Cheaper sorcery points costs for non-ICs (just like nearly every other item of wargear).

MoT functions as it does now, with the added benefits of acting like a familiar for sorcerers.

Make the Tzeentch minor psychic powers list not random (i.e. you do not roll) or in lieu of that fantastic, you may make a single re-roll (even if you buy 3 powers, not that anyone would be ignorant enough to do that).

I'd also like to see a few more major powers, and have BoC changed to AP1

EVIL INC
02-06-2005, 02:28
I would be happy with them having the option of taking a heavy unit made up of sorcerers all with the heavy "weapon" powers. This would, of course, be expensive, but it would allow thousand sons a heavy "weapon" option to replace the reguler havoks used by other marine armies.
If you wanted to use this sort of option, but dont like the idea of having that many sorcerers fluffwise, you could allow them to have a "heavy" unit of 5-10 models of whichup to 3 may be upgraded to sorcers who have thier powers and equipment buyable as upgrades. these buyable upgrades should be very limited to reflect thier status as being lesser then more important champions. For example...
1. bolt of change
2. doombolt
3. thrall sorcerer
4. power weapon
Thats it.
Ok, now tell me how foolish I am for thinking of this. :rolleyes:

grizzly ruin
02-06-2005, 04:11
I would be happy with them having the option of taking a heavy unit made up of sorcerers all with the heavy "weapon" powers. This would, of course, be expensive, but it would allow thousand sons a heavy "weapon" option to replace the reguler havoks used by other marine armies.

You can already do something similar with Chosen.

Except it's just too expensive to be any good, especially since BoC and Doombolt don't have "heavy weapon" ranges. So now you have to take that unit that costs 27 per model, plus something insane like 3 or 4 BoCs in the unit at 30 points each.

So you'd be talking 57 points per model with BoC.

Which is insane.

lord_blackfang
02-06-2005, 13:10
Meh. I don't think Rubrics need any help in the resiliance department. It's the other units that need to be improved to make them more viable and the TS lists more varied.

I've been working on a full Thousand Sons codex for a while now. And I mean the works - change of fighting style and all. Hopefully it'll be finished in a week or two - I've been implementing and then discarding so many ideas that I've been left with a real jumble of an army list.

Kjell
02-06-2005, 13:23
I've been working on a full Thousand Sons codex for a while now. And I mean the works - change of fighting style and all. Hopefully it'll be finished in a week or two - I've been implementing and then discarding so many ideas that I've been left with a real jumble of an army list.
Now that sounds nice. I'll be looking forward to reading it. A fresh take on the Thousand Sons is always interesting. :)

lord_blackfang
02-06-2005, 13:44
Of course we all have different ideas as to what TS should be like, so I expect that noone will be 100% happy with it... ah well.

grizzly ruin
02-06-2005, 15:13
Meh. I don't think Rubrics need any help in the resiliance department. It's the other units that need to be improved to make them more viable and the TS lists more varied.

I agree.

The main problems with TS, IMHO, are:


Severe difficulty with heavy armor, unless you stuff your heavy support slots with TL Las Dreads or Preds.
Sorcerery powers are not nearly as good as they should be, and BoC costs too many points for what it is (A substandard move-and-fire multi-melta, it can fire on the move, but it has AP2 and doesn't get the added pen dice within half range).
Ludicrous points cost for the MoT for chosen and possesed granting so little in return as to make them unviable.


There are of course other problems, but if these main issues were looked at, and tweaked I believe the TS list would be in a far better situation then it is now.

Scabby
02-06-2005, 15:37
I always thought the rubric squads were pretty darn good. It would be nice to see some changes to chosen or especially possessed to make them viable.

Lord Humongous
02-06-2005, 20:26
I think it would more quite reasonable to drop MOT cost to 5 points for non rubric squad members. That brings the cost of choosen and possesed down without much affecting other units. I think this is better than reducing the cost of psycic powers because it makes NON psycic possesed and choosen a more viable option (though not as attractive as for other marks) and still makes it cheaper to use squad-member psycic abilaties. The original posters concept (toughening up rubrics if there's a sorcerer in the unit) simply makes the current "hidden powerfist sorcerer" tactic more effective, and does nothing to bring sorcerers into roles they "should" be playing.

If anything, I would make rubrics EASIER to kill. Replacing thier 2 wound bonus with "feal no pain" would actually be no real change mathmatically vs shooting, but it fits the fluff well and makes them more vulnerable in assaults, which probably should not be thier strong point anyhow. Doing this might also justify reducing the cost of rubric marks to 5 points.

I also think that MoT elite units should be allowed veteran skills. "Tank Hunters" on a rubric terminator unit with a BOC champ would be pretty handy for anti-vehicle work. They culd glance AR11 with the combi bolters, and would have a S9 "special weapon" for hunting heavy tanks. Very nasty when deep striking...

TomKamakazi
03-06-2005, 05:15
This is a little off topic, but I've been wondering about this for a while;

Is there any fluf reason that 1k Sons can't take special weapons? I can kind of see the no-heavy-weapons-thing as a game balance so that you don't have slow and purposefull gun platforms when you should be using sorcerers, but special weps? Come on they need something to do some damage.

lord_blackfang
03-06-2005, 06:58
I'm guessing that since they're automatons, the Sorcerer has to control them and it's enough of an accomplishment that he can even make 8 additional bodies walk and pull the trigger. Keeping track of which dummy is carrying which weapon... I guess it's beyond even a Tzentch Sorcerer (as in, he has more important things to think about).

john-connors
03-06-2005, 07:45
I think the option to take upto two plasma guns in each squad makes sense, it functions the same as a boltgun (24” range, Rapid Fire) they are just more effective.

And in my view the simplest way to make Thousand Sons Sorcerers more useful is to allow upto two in each squad. Not too overpowering, and fits the fluff with new recruits having to be Sorcerers…

grizzly ruin
03-06-2005, 08:30
Is there any fluf reason that 1k Sons can't take special weapons? I can kind of see the no-heavy-weapons-thing as a game balance so that you don't have slow and purposefull gun platforms when you should be using sorcerers, but special weps? Come on they need something to do some damage.

There's no justification in the fluff of any kind.

lord_blackfang
03-06-2005, 14:10
One rather brilliant suggestion for special options I've seen on B&C was to allow a few Rubrics (2 in Tac squads, 1 per 3 in Termies, 4 in Havocs) to take Inferno bolts.

Not that we need more anti-light-infantry, but hey...

grizzly ruin
04-06-2005, 01:00
Not that we need more anti-light-infantry, but hey...

It's true, that's the one thing TS really doesn't need.

What I'd really like to see, above all things perhaps, is to have the emphasis on sorcerers.

I see no reason why they can't get a bit of a boost.

Especially in light of the new SM Librarian powers.

BoC is too expensive. Even 20 points would seem like a lot for what it does.

Considering that it is the ONLY ranged anti-armor option available to troops, and that you only have at best 2 to 3 troops units, and the fact that you have to waste all of the other shots from a 9 man squad, and lastly that it has a 24" range - I really think it needs a boost.


Drop it to 20 points, and change the AP to 1 and it looks a whole lot better.

I'd also like to see changes to the minor powers list.

Let's look at that list as it is now shall we?

1) No power - Great! This could be argued both ways, yes you are dedicated to the mastery of sorcery, however noone said he was a loving god...

2) Pink fire of Tzeentch - Nothing like paying 10 points and having to randomly roll for a power you could have just bought for 5 from the Daemonic Gifts section...(especially since I've never seen anyone actually use Daemonic Fire).

3) Psychic Duel - Not terrible, not as good as a psychic hood obviously. It would be better if you didn't have to roll to get this.

4) Reckoning of Tzeentch - I like this one. Again, shame it's random.

5) Weaver of fates - Fantastic, I've a 1/6th chance of upping my strategy rating for the price of 10 points. No thank you. Would be nice if the inclusion of a Tzeentch marked unit automatically upped the Strategy rating to 3.

6) Withering Gaze - Another one that would be useful if it wasn't random.


So out of 6 possible out comes, 3 suck.

Well that's fantastic, just what you want is to gamble points away on minor psychic powers in a list that will already have you strapped for points because everything is so expensive.


I still think there should be 2nd, cheaper points cost for Sorcery powers for non-IC sorcerers.

EVIL INC
04-06-2005, 01:14
You can already do something similar with Chosen.


LOL. Yes, I realized that well after I had made the post. You are right, that IS insane.

Charax
04-06-2005, 11:40
Hmm...fixing thousand sons...

well, I too believe the emphasis should be on sorcerors, so how about allowing the sorceror to buy upgrades/powers that affect the squad he's with?

Examples:
Cloying mist: 15 points. the unit gains a 6+ cover save for the duration of the power, or +1 to any existing cover save they beneft from. Used in the movement phase

Ahriman's Curse: 20 points. The Sorceror saps the psychic energy holding one of his brothers to create a disruptive field around the squad's weapons. One model in the unit takes a S8 AP3 hit, and in return the unit's bolterl shots benefit from the Rending ability for that turn. Used at the start of the shooting phase, the sorceror may not shoot in the same turn this power is used (that should help against tanks)

Wrath of Magnus: 30 points. In a similar way to Ahriman's curse, the sorceror indiscriminately drains the essence of those around him to unleash a devastating strike upon the battlefield. Place the large blast marker over the sorceror. all non-sorceror models under the template take an immediate Strength 6 AP 4 hit. the sorceror may then make an attack with the following profile: Range: G48 S4 AP6 Heavy 1 blast. Add 1 to strength and subtract one from AP for every wound caused by the large blast marker (maximum S9 AP2)

How about those then? specifics need to be worked out but I think it provides a nice balance between sacrifice and power

lord_blackfang
04-06-2005, 13:11
Since you want to see emphasis on Sorcerers, here's a bit of a preview of my Codex:

The Rubric Sign

All Rubic Marines, Rubric Terminators and vehicles crewed by them have the Rubric Sign, and are known collectively as Rubric Automatons. They follow the rules as stated below:

Slow and Purposeful: as the Universal Special Rule. This rule does not apply to vehicles other than Dreadnoughts.
Spirit Aura: The trapped souls’ unnatural aura unnerves enemy troops. Enemy models which assault a unit containing Rubric Automatons do not gain a bonus attack for charging.
Mindless: On their own, Rubric Automatons are almost completely unaware of their surroundings and so desperately need the psychic guidance of a Sorcerer; any unit which contains Rubric Automatons must have at least one Rubric Automaton in range of a Sorcerer’s Animation power in order for the Automatons to act normally. Otherwise, the Automatons in the unit may not move, shoot or assault. They can still make close combat attacks, but they can’t move at all – not even to “pile in” or to regain unit coherency. Because of their detachment from the living world, Rubric Automatons are also Fearless, and vehicles with the Rubric Sign are immune to being Shaken or Stunned.

Can't get any more Sorcerer-reliant than that :D Animation will have 3" range for regular Sorcerers and 6" for Independent Characters.

Charax
04-06-2005, 14:53
I dont remember seeing any background supporting your claim that Rubric marines are totally unable to act without the guidance of a sorceror - I was under the impression that the sorcerors could "override" whatever they were doing, but not that they had to mentally command every single one. I'd be more inclined to go with some form of Instinctive Behaviour table when out of range of a sorceror than have them standing around doing nothing.

grizzly ruin
04-06-2005, 14:57
Examples:
Cloying mist: 15 points. the unit gains a 6+ cover save for the duration of the power, or +1 to any existing cover save they beneft from. Used in the movement phase

Although interesting, this effectively just makes the squad tougher.


Ahriman's Curse: 20 points. The Sorceror saps the psychic energy holding one of his brothers to create a disruptive field around the squad's weapons. One model in the unit takes a S8 AP3 hit, and in return the unit's bolterl shots benefit from the Rending ability for that turn. Used at the start of the shooting phase, the sorceror may not shoot in the same turn this power is used (that should help against tanks)

Well it's balanced I suppose. I'm not too sure I'd be happy autokilling one of the Rubrics to get rending for one round.


Wrath of Magnus: 30 points. In a similar way to Ahriman's curse, the sorceror indiscriminately drains the essence of those around him to unleash a devastating strike upon the battlefield. Place the large blast marker over the sorceror. all non-sorceror models under the template take an immediate Strength 6 AP 4 hit. the sorceror may then make an attack with the following profile: Range: G48 S4 AP6 Heavy 1 blast. Add 1 to strength and subtract one from AP for every wound caused by the large blast marker (maximum S9 AP2)

I think these are very interesting, but keep in mind we are already dealing with an army list that has a huge amount of drawbacks.

Take a look at the powers available to SM librarians, they don't don't have to sacrifice anything to get the fantastic powers they can have.

They even have better familiars. :wtf:

Why couldn't TS sorcerers have a power like Storm of the Emperor's wrath?

Or veil of time, Fear of the Dark, Vortex of doom??


"Fear of the Dark Summoning the indescribable malice of the warp..."

WTF are SM librarians doing summoning the malice of the warp?



"Vortex of Doom Opening a tear between the material world and the howling destruction of the warp..."

Hey that's great, might want to add that to the sorcerers that actively serve the warp.



It's S**T like this that really infuriates me to no end.

And I don't care if they are expensive. 100/115 points, and then they get the powers for cheap.

Of course that price actually includes a friggen force weapon AND a psychic hood. (65 points of gear in the previous codex IIRC)

So that means the SM Librarian comes free with a 12" AP2 blast marker, and 3 wounds for 50 points. And then gets his Force Weapon and Psychic Hood as part of his package.

While true, he can't customize that package, there's really nothing else to swap out in place of those in the Wargear section anyway, except for maybe lightning claws.

And what did TS sorcerers get? The Warp Blade and Pink Fire of Tzeentch.

Woopdie-friggen-do. :rolleyes:


SM librarians are better "sorcerers" than anything in the chaos codex.

Fine give the imperials the better technology, the better LR variants, better guns for terminators (stormbolters and assault cannons), give them better mobile firepower (Land Speeders & assault cannons), that's part of their package.



But they do not deserve to have better psychics with better equipment, and better powers than any chaos army, least of all the Thousand Sons.

It angers me to no end, and then Pete Haines makes a comment like "The Thousand Sons are fine."

Hey that's great. Thanks for listening to us, has he actually played the list?

I think his opinion is more along the lines of "2 wounds are Teh ROxXXorZ!"

Charax
04-06-2005, 15:06
No point complaining about rules creep, it'll always happen - I'd be in favour of just saying that Chaos Sorcerors (who, after all WERE librarians, and TS ones were THE FIRST librarians) are allowed to purchase SM powers. this may be a tad unbalancing, but the downside is that the points have to be taken out of their wargear allowance (unlike the non-gift of the gods chaos powers).

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Haines, especially when he's the idiot responsible for the "familiars should be modelled on the same base as the librarian" FAQ, and the "You have no right to comment on GW" fanatic editorial.

I thought 40K was steering away from ubercharacters, anyway?...

Yes, my suggestions were a tad self-destructive (thanks for commenting, btw) but I figured that'd kill two birds with one stone - TS are hard as nails, so the powers force you to take a little from that for the ability to hurt tanks or call down unholy smitage on hidden units.

grizzly ruin
04-06-2005, 15:10
Yes, my suggestions were a tad self-destructive (thanks for commenting, btw) but I figured that'd kill two birds with one stone - TS are hard as nails, so the powers force you to take a little from that for the ability to hurt tanks or call down unholy smitage on hidden units.

Well the Wrath of Magnus was alright, because at worst one or two of the Rubrics would take a wound.

But the Curse of Ahriman is a S8 AP3 shot, which means autokill.

You might as well just have him sacrifice a Rubric like a thrall at that point (which I think is too much).



No point complaining about rules creep, it'll always happen

A bit of Codex Creep I can put up with.

Poor design and implementation, and then ignoring peoples pleas and being downright condescending about it I simply cannot tolerate.

Charax
04-06-2005, 15:12
it's not autokill if you upgrade them to terminators :P

Ok, I take your point. S7 Ap3, S8 Ap4 or S7 Ap4 then?

grizzly ruin
04-06-2005, 15:27
A tiny fixit idea


The first price is for IC, the second is for Aspiring Champions or Squad members.

Doombolt - 15/10
Gift of Chaos - 20/15
Mass Mutation - 25/20 (useless on anyone but Chosen really, and they are useless to begin with!)
Wind of Chaos - 20/15
*Bolt of Change - 30/20

I also thought it would be nice to have TS sorcerers be able to simply pick a minor power of their choice, and then pay the 10 points for it.

If they want a second power beyond the first, they must roll.

This would be a tiny step in the right direction.

lord_blackfang
05-06-2005, 15:32
I dont remember seeing any background supporting your claim that Rubric marines are totally unable to act without the guidance of a sorceror - I was under the impression that the sorcerors could "override" whatever they were doing, but not that they had to mentally command every single one. I'd be more inclined to go with some form of Instinctive Behaviour table when out of range of a sorceror than have them standing around doing nothing.

True. In fact I don't recall any fluff on what Rubrics are capable off at all.

Instinctive Behaviour is a great idea. But the reason I made those rules was to emphasize the importance of Sorcerers, to give the player another reason for taking them, and to gice the army a downside that can be exploited (although with some difficulty) by the opponent - if you can somehow take out the Sorcerer, the whole unit is useless (at least until another Sorcerer comes to the rescue).

But some sort of simple Instinctive Bahaviour might not be over the top. Say:
-if enemy is in weapon range, fire
-if not, move towards nearest enemy, and if now in range, fire

Lady Bastet
05-06-2005, 15:52
I had an idea a while ago to make the Mark of Tzzench more viable-

Simply allowing Sorcerers with no Psychic Power to have an ability similar to Augment for free thus turning them into an Acolyte of sorts.

That and the very background of the Rubric of Ahriman proves that a lot of Sorcerers can lend their power to the same spell. So there is a precedent for this.

grizzly ruin
05-06-2005, 15:55
Instinctive Behaviour is a great idea. But the reason I made those rules was to emphasize the importance of Sorcerers, to give the player another reason for taking them, and to gice the army a downside that can be exploited (although with some difficulty) by the opponent - if you can somehow take out the Sorcerer, the whole unit is useless (at least until another Sorcerer comes to the rescue).

But some sort of simple Instinctive Bahaviour might not be over the top. Say:
-if enemy is in weapon range, fire
-if not, move towards nearest enemy, and if now in range, fire

As fluffy as it sounds, I'm not sure it would be wise to give the TS another tactical disadvantage as they already have their hands full.

Kjell
05-06-2005, 17:26
There really is no background on what a lone Rubric trooper can and cannot do, BL or "official"? I'm in favour of treating Rubric Marines as golems of sorts, though. They're as mindless as Necrons and Tyranids, just in a different way. :p

lord_blackfang
06-06-2005, 11:31
As fluffy as it sounds, I'm not sure it would be wise to give the TS another tactical disadvantage as they already have their hands full.

My project is a proper Codex: Thousand Sons, not a hotfix for the current list. It will be an entirely different army with a general strategy/play style that I don't think any current 40k army has.

EDIT: MY point being, that many of the tactical disadvantages of the current list will not carry over into the Codex.

grizzly ruin
06-06-2005, 16:46
There really is no background on what a lone Rubric trooper can and cannot do, BL or "official"? I'm in favour of treating Rubric Marines as golems of sorts, though. They're as mindless as Necrons and Tyranids, just in a different way. :p

Yeah I don't really think I've read anything about what they can or can't do.

They can't be that mindless, otherwise they wouldn't be able to pull a trigger.

I've always thought of them along the lines of Wraithguard or Necron warriors.



lord_blackfang
My project is a proper Codex: Thousand Sons, not a hotfix for the current list. It will be an entirely different army with a general strategy/play style that I don't think any current 40k army has.

EDIT: MY point being, that many of the tactical disadvantages of the current list will not carry over into the Codex.


Well that makes a bit more sense then.

scirmast
06-06-2005, 22:19
I think the the best way to balance the thousand sons would be:

1. A small points decrease on the rubrik marines + if the squad is accompanied by a Sorcerer he has a free psychic power that augments the rubric marines (re-roll to hit rolls or armour saves), and which will not take up one psychic power slot (meaning a familiar is not needed).

2. Small points decrease on the Horrors and screamers. Flamer remains at the same.

3. All psychic powers point cost halved for the Thousand sons.

4. More useful minor power, and no wasted rolls on the table (the darn slection number one).

5. Tzeentch specific wargear should be more useful. There are many things which aren't that good.

6. Some special rules to repesent the trickering nature of Tzeentch. Some deployment-fooling, unhappy visions to the opposing army or something? These would be in a pure Thousand Sons army.

With these modifications they would be good IMO. Also the competitive Thousand Sons lists would be more diverse.

Edit: added some stuff

Lady Bastet
07-06-2005, 02:21
I would move towards giving Horrors a Daemonic Rune for free this will make them more viable and represent them splitting into two.

Daemonic Fire is just not useful at the moment too.

grizzly ruin
08-06-2005, 19:03
I would move towards giving Horrors a Daemonic Rune for free this will make them more viable and represent them splitting into two.

That would be pushing it too far.

You want to give a 35 point upgrade to a model that costs 17 points?



Daemonic Fire is just not useful at the moment too.

Now that I agree with.

The problem with Horrors is that there only purpose is to become flamers.

I don't care if they have 2 wounds, the rest of their statline is heinous.

Some of the worst aspects being WS 2, T 3, I 2

Not to mention that they have a BS 3 with a 12" range.

I can't believe these things actually cost more than a Daemonette.



Keep their cost at 17 points, and increase their WS and I to 3, and maybe their BS to 4.

Or drop them to 14 points, and make flamers 20. That's what I'd like to see anyway.

lord_blackfang
09-06-2005, 10:55
That would be pushing it too far.

You want to give a 35 point upgrade to a model that costs 17 points?



Immunity to Instant Death might be worth 35 pts on a 200pt Chaos Lord. How much is it worth on a worthless Horror? I don't think I'd pay 17 ptsd for them even with the Rune.

grizzly ruin
09-06-2005, 12:16
Immunity to Instant Death might be worth 35 pts on a 200pt Chaos Lord. How much is it worth on a worthless Horror? I don't think I'd pay 17 ptsd for them even with the Rune.

The way I thought of the suggestion was that if they got it, flamers would get it.

regardless, I don't think what the TS list needs is more resilience, what it needs is more versatility.