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Von Wibble
03-08-2011, 16:24
A tomb prince on chariot with this item charges an enemy unit consisting of models with ward saves.

1) How many models are considered to be in base contact with the prince during the combat phase? Is it just the 4 in direct contact, or with stepping up rules, can any attacks of the prince and his chariot gain the benefit?

2) If it is the latter case, can I direct attacks from the chariots nearby onto models consecutive to teh prince to get further benefits? Can any attack from a chariot that is in base contact with an enemy model who is itself in base contact with the prince force the daemons to reroll their ward saves?

The bearded one
03-08-2011, 17:10
1) The 4 models in basecontact with the chariot are affected and any model wounded by the chariot and prince, and the supporting chariot behind the prince if there is one, will be affected.

2) I thought about this a lot myself when I first saw the item and I drew a blank. Absolutely no idea and I hoped GW would FAQ it or something. If I ever get to use this item myself, I think i will take the amount of attacks from the models in basecontact with an affected model and 'direct' half of these onto affected models and the other half on the unaffected models, to make it fair instead of all the attacking being directed on the handful of affected models. I don't believe rank&files from a unit can choose a specific enemy rank&file of the enemy unit anymore to attack and the attacks are directed on the enemy unit as a whole.

T10
03-08-2011, 17:40
1. Impact hits are distributed as shooting hits. This means the player owning the target unit may first allocate hits to rank-and-file models thate are /not/ in base contact with the Tomb King.

E.g.: if the Tomb King charges a unit of 5 models and makes contact with 4 of them, the owning player can allocate the first hit to the "5th" model and the remaining hits to models in base contact. This doesn't really affect casualties: these are removed from the rear of the unit as normal.

2. The Tomb King can allocate attacks to any models in base contact, so all his attacks benefit from the Shard. Any other TK models in the combat can direct their attacks against the "vulnerable" models if they are in base contact with at least one model. Casualties are removed from the unit's rear, thus it won't run out of "vulnerable" models just because the first four "vulnerable" casualties.

Von Wibble
03-08-2011, 17:59
Thanks. Looks like its a good item to use against daemons then!

The bearded one
03-08-2011, 18:33
Any other TK models in the combat can direct their attacks against the "vulnerable" models if they are in base contact with at least one model.

I can't find anything about models being allowed to direct their attacks to specific models, unless they are in basecontact with models with different characteristic models. (page 48, "dividing attacks"). That is the part where I am unsure about the ruling, as I cannot find any rules about if rank&file models from a unit can attack a very specific enemy rank&file model.

T10
03-08-2011, 19:47
While the models may be otherwise similar, they differ in that some must re-roll their ward saves and others need not. It clearly matters which model is attacked.

-T10

BEEGfrog
03-08-2011, 23:00
The other thing that might come into consideration are attacks being simultaneous at an initiative level. It can be argued (although I am not sure if the argument is correct!) that for all the attacks at any initiative point the shard forces re-rolls until the 4, or however many models are in contact at the start of that intitiative level, are removed and then rolls are taken as normal until the next initiative step when new models have stepped up into contact.

If you specify models who have to take re-rolls then hits cannot transfer to models without re-rolls under the specifying targets rules so only the 4 or whatever models could be killed even if there were remaining wounds.

I am not sure about either of these interpretations but I thought I would put them up for discussion.

T10
03-08-2011, 23:10
As casualties are removed from the rear, there is "no limit" to the number of models in base contact with the model with the Shard.

The bearded one
04-08-2011, 03:04
While the models may be otherwise similar, they differ in that some must re-roll their ward saves and others need not. It clearly matters which model is attacked.

-T10

The text specifically mentions that you divide attacks when there are different characteristic profiles, hence why I am not so sure about the ruling, though I wouldn't mind allocating onto the affected models as I am going to be using the shard on a warlord on bonebreaker in a unit ratogres :D

ihavetoomuchminis
05-08-2011, 10:07
And why don't just force re-rolls only for those wounds caused by the model carrying the trickter's shard and just ignore the re-rolls on those wounds caused by friendly models in contact, unless the wounded models are characters or specific models? I find it's the easiest way to solve it, despite losing some of the item benefits.

The bearded one
05-08-2011, 12:44
You don't do that because you lose some item benefits.

o, IHTMM, will you ever learn? :p

ihavetoomuchminis
05-08-2011, 14:43
You don't do that because you lose some item benefits.

o, IHTMM, will you ever learn? :p

OK! I get it! My mistake for believing in sportmanship, :D

Satan
05-08-2011, 14:51
I always play it like the guy with too many toy soldiers.

Never thought about this scenario. Bit of a wormcan. They should FAQ.

Zentdiam
06-08-2011, 05:09
Just to throw in an aside that doesn't really help the arguement, we play it like IHTMM does. We have a few power gamers and I am surprised this has not come up yet :p