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View Full Version : Is there a rule against larger base sizes?



BloodHawk
03-08-2011, 19:08
I don't have my rulebook on me, however, I don't seem to remember anything about this in the main book.

My questions is if you can intentionally put a model on a larger size base than they normally would be on. This would be used normally for conversions / some forgeworld models etc.

To my recollection there is no issue with using Larger base sizes than provided, however, your cannot use smaller base sizes.

Thoughts?

Agoz
03-08-2011, 19:14
pg 80 of the rule book, under models and base sizes, models must be mounted on the bases they are supplied with.

drear
03-08-2011, 19:37
and thats where the prob lies with alot of things.

steamtanks, pump wagons etc dont come with a base.
and certain models dependant on which you buy will have a diffrent sized base. e.g giants, eagles, various monsters

i always go by the rule of whatever looks correct.
my giants sit on giant bases, but when i made rhinox i wasnt sure of the base size so i used chariot bases. my steamtank occupies a special base using the modular movment trays

Agoz
03-08-2011, 20:12
I always go with the base size of whatever unit type it is, if its a chariot, it gets a chariot base, monstrous infantry: 40mm, monstrous cav: 50mm, if its a monster, it gets either a 50mm base, or something bigger.

N810
03-08-2011, 20:16
Large base size is usualy to your disadvantage...

unheilig
03-08-2011, 20:19
Large base size is usualy to your disadvantage...

Except when getting hit by templates.

Agoz
03-08-2011, 20:20
and there are plenty of templates

BloodHawk
03-08-2011, 20:22
Let me be a bit more specific in my question then.

I recently purchased the Forgeworld Great Unclean one and do not believe it comes with a base.

I have the forgeworld keeper of secrets, who is supplied with a chariot base, and the forgeworld daemon prince who is supplied with a monster base.

To my knowledge the Great Unclean one does not have a base. My thought was to put it on the arachnarock base. Probably the only one it would fit on frankly.

b4z
03-08-2011, 20:23
Large base sizes have some advantages in terms of movement/charge blocking etc.

Go for a sensible size and im sure there will be no problem.

Arachnarok size is pretty big...

Morax
03-08-2011, 20:27
The most likely game to be played with a forgeworld great unclean one is a game of storm of magic. A game so counter-competitve that to attempt to min max it would be ludicrous. I would tell you to put it on what ever base it fits on, most likely the 100mm by 150mm, and let it role.

N810
03-08-2011, 20:29
The Skaven bell "might" be on a slightly smaller base.
I believe it was the biggest untill the spider was releasd.

PS. the drawback is being able to be in bases to base contact with more attackers
and generaly being a bigger target to shooting.

BloodHawk
03-08-2011, 20:54
Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how wide the sucker is. It would be nice to put him on a Skaven Bell base, but I don't think he would fit as his legs are quite wide.

And yes, totally agree. It is not usually advisable to be on a large base, lol.

popisdead
03-08-2011, 21:09
The problem comes with things like the Brass Cleaver (I'd happily put my Doombull on a sideways Arachnarok base) and there is a Nurgle Item that says B2B.

Generally unless it is tippy, a fun base (standing on a mound of dead guys), or you are bringing it up to speed (chariot base for old dragons) generally messing around with Base Size can cause issues for the number of models attacking or being attacked.

Think about someone mounting Dryads on 20 mm and you'll see why ;-)

BloodHawk
03-08-2011, 21:23
The problem comes with things like the Brass Cleaver (I'd happily put my Doombull on a sideways Arachnarok base) and there is a Nurgle Item that says B2B.

Generally unless it is tippy, a fun base (standing on a mound of dead guys), or you are bringing it up to speed (chariot base for old dragons) generally messing around with Base Size can cause issues for the number of models attacking or being attacked.

Think about someone mounting Dryads on 20 mm and you'll see why ;-)


I totally agree with this. And therefore you cut to the heart of my post. I really want to use the Forgeworld Great Unclean one, as I like to centerpiece my Daemon armies around the spectacular Forgeworld greater daemons. I really enjoy painting them and think they look awesome on the battlefield.

On the other hand, I am not trying to be beardy / cheesy in any way shape or form. I just want the most fair way to play with the model. I often play in tournaments as well, so this is something I am extra sensitive about. For instance, I have played in several tourney's with my Forgeworld Keeper.

Agoz
03-08-2011, 22:24
the rules say if it doesn't come with a base, just put it on something appropriately sized, so if its really big, put it on a really big base, easy. For the record, the regular great unclean one is on a 50mm base, though I imagine the FW is quite a bit larger.

BloodHawk
03-08-2011, 22:27
That makes sense then. Appropriately sized base it is then!

And yes Agoz, the forgeworld one is quite a bit larger. Its actually kind of funny because he is not all that tall or deep, but he becomes quite wide because the pose has him sitting down legs crisscrossed. Thats' the main issue I see with him being placed on a base.

I am definitely curious to see what size base it will take.

shakedown47
03-08-2011, 23:21
My personal feeling about base size is that I don't really care unless we're talking about infantry. Elves shouldn't be on 25mm bases and marauders shouldn't be on 20mm bases. With things like dragons, hellcannons, and steamtanks I prefer 50x100 but if an opponent wants to use 50x50 I'm fine with that too. My general preference is that the majority of a model's parts that are at "infantry height" be within the boundaries of the base's edge so as to accomodate close combat.

popisdead
04-08-2011, 17:37
My personal feeling about base size is that I don't really care unless we're talking about infantry. Elves shouldn't be on 25mm bases and marauders shouldn't be on 20mm bases. With things like dragons, hellcannons, and steamtanks I prefer 50x100 but if an opponent wants to use 50x50 I'm fine with that too. My general preference is that the majority of a model's parts that are at "infantry height" be within the boundaries of the base's edge so as to accomodate close combat.

Well,... imagine if your elite unit hits the flank of a dragon that is on a 50 MM base. You are loosing half your attacks. And if that elite unit is say, Bestigors who can do some nice damage, that's a chunk of wounds you just gave up.

Also look at the stats for the boosted Transformation of Kadon monsters (pretty epic and awesome) and the part where it says "cannot be placed if there is no room." It is a can of worms unto itself.

BloodHawk
04-08-2011, 18:28
Wow, so hooray forgeworld / postal service. I ordered my Great unclean one last Wednesday and it arrived yesterday. I guess I did pay for the upgraded shipping now that I think about it.

Anyway, I measured the model and it is almost exactly 100 MM wide, perhaps a bit wider. Depth wise it is more like 50 to 75 mm ish. I ordered an arachnarock base from ebay and am thinking I will cut it down to make a 100 by 100 mm base. This seems the most reasonable as the base would be WAY too deep at 150mm.

Thanks for your help guys! I am super stoked to play with the model.

Agoz
04-08-2011, 20:11
Well,... imagine if your elite unit hits the flank of a dragon that is on a 50 MM base. You are loosing half your attacks. And if that elite unit is say, Bestigors who can do some nice damage, that's a chunk of wounds you just gave up.

Also look at the stats for the boosted Transformation of Kadon monsters (pretty epic and awesome) and the part where it says "cannot be placed if there is no room." It is a can of worms unto itself.

The old dragons came on 50x50mm bases, so it would actually be legal to have a dragon on that.

shakedown47
05-08-2011, 04:17
The old dragons came on 50x50mm bases, so it would actually be legal to have a dragon on that.

Seconded. As I said, my main criteria is that the majority of the model's parts that could interfere with it ranking up against the average infantry unit should be high enough to avoid it or placed within the confines of the model's base. It's not scientific but it works.

I modeled my Hellcannon on a 100mmx100mm movement tray and, after trying to explain to each opponent that I basically counted it as being on a 50x100 base, I eventually gave up and now just count it's base as the movement tray. Sure there are times where it's damaging to me to have a base that big like when fighting white lions or bestigors or whatever (not that Hellcannons need any more advantages than they already have) but there are also times when it's beneficial such as LOS for the shooting attack. The only time I would complain about an opponent's base size choice is if they did it expressly to gain an advantage (putting 20mm infantry on 25mm bases, and vice versa.)

Kampfpanzer
05-08-2011, 04:21
pg 80 of the rule book, under models and base sizes, models must be mounted on the bases they are supplied with.

Back in the day, I had a miss packaged wood elf archer unit that came on 25mm bases. They were my first unit ever and I was like 12. I still have them, still on the 25mm bases :p

SkawtheFalconer
05-08-2011, 09:33
Their rule about using the base the model is supplied with is such lazy writing. One that jumps out at me in WoC character on steed of slaanesh, which should clearly be on a cavalry base, but comes with a monster base (and the model doesn't fit very well on a cav base of course).

By the way, I recently bought a Wood Elf Lord on Great Eagle, and he comes on a big base (I forget measurements, but it's bigger than standard monster base). All my old Great Eagles are on monster bases (50mm). Are all new Great Eagles mounted on bigger bases?

JustinDonnelly
05-08-2011, 12:25
The base size dilema is silly.

Take for example the new VC dragon. Mounted on a 100x150 base. Put this alongside the older VC dragon. Plays with exactly the same rules and effects except he comes on a compact 50mm square base

Now. This dragon and rider go charging into some halbeard toting chaos warriors in a horde. The old dragon takes 16 hits. The new dragon is on the point end of 24 angry chaos warrior attacks. Thats an increase of +50% and for what? For being a newer, nicer model?

Lets flip this and say the chaos warriors charge the unsuspecting dragon in the flank. The 50mm base would take 16 attacks. Now the much large 150mm flank of the new shiney model takes 32 attacks. Thats double.

And thats broken.

GodlessM
05-08-2011, 12:32
Except when getting hit by templates.

So to you being easier to hit with a template is an advantage? :wtf:

jtrowell
05-08-2011, 12:51
So to you being easier to hit with a template is an advantage? :wtf:


He was probably meaning that in a unit, having larger base means less model hits by a template.

nightgant98c
05-08-2011, 15:51
The base size dilema is silly.

Take for example the new VC dragon. Mounted on a 100x150 base. Put this alongside the older VC dragon. Plays with exactly the same rules and effects except he comes on a compact 50mm square base

Now. This dragon and rider go charging into some halbeard toting chaos warriors in a horde. The old dragon takes 16 hits. The new dragon is on the point end of 24 angry chaos warrior attacks. Thats an increase of +50% and for what? For being a newer, nicer model?

Lets flip this and say the chaos warriors charge the unsuspecting dragon in the flank. The 50mm base would take 16 attacks. Now the much large 150mm flank of the new shiney model takes 32 attacks. Thats double.

And thats broken.

I'd agree. But it could all be solved if they would specify what size base a model was supposed to be on. Other games do it. It eliminates questions and problems regarding base size. Of couurse, some people will then get mad because they have to rebase their models( I remember alot of annoyed people when terminators got a bigger base), but it's a small price to pay for clarity.

vinush
05-08-2011, 16:44
As long as the size they state is the size they stick to, then there shouldn't be an issue.

A lot of the models on the GW website state the size base they come with, so printing it in the army books/main rule book could be seen as unnecessary.

THE \/ince

popisdead
05-08-2011, 17:37
As long as the size they state is the size they stick to, then there shouldn't be an issue.

A lot of the models on the GW website state the size base they come with, so printing it in the army books/main rule book could be seen as unnecessary.



Except that the two unicorn models you can buy ship with either a cavalry or 50mm square base.

So,... yeah,... I'll Moonstone of Hidden Ways my 6 Treekin with a lvl 4 using Call of the hunt to charge the rear of your battleline any day as with a cavalry base Unicorn this is easy.

It's not a defined fact anywhere (the base size chart was last printed in early 7th ed), you have to apply some logic and reasoning to base size and sometimes make compromises.

BloodHawk
05-08-2011, 20:21
Their rule about using the base the model is supplied with is such lazy writing. One that jumps out at me in WoC character on steed of slaanesh, which should clearly be on a cavalry base, but comes with a monster base (and the model doesn't fit very well on a cav base of course).

By the way, I recently bought a Wood Elf Lord on Great Eagle, and he comes on a big base (I forget measurements, but it's bigger than standard monster base). All my old Great Eagles are on monster bases (50mm). Are all new Great Eagles mounted on bigger bases?

I actually thought this same thing, however, I can clear this up. The Character on steed of slaanesh is not, in fact on a steed of slaanesh. If you look look in the warriors of chaos book you will find that the mount is supposed to be a Daemonic mount, and therefore, it should be on a monster base.

enyoss
05-08-2011, 21:11
I had a similar problem when I recently acquired the old 3rd edition Elven Attack chariot. It doesn't comfortably fit on a chariot base as the wheels and horses are too wide. Although it was supplied with two cavalry bases, the chariot haft and horse set up means the closest you can get these bases is about 10mm apart (see here http://www.solegends.com/citcat912/c20204elfattchar-h.htm).

My solution was to mount it on a 3 x 2 cavalry base set up (i.e. 75mm wide and 100mm deep) and kindly explain the problem to my opponent, while relying on them to be sufficiently impressed by the retro-model to bother caring. It has worked thus far, and if that old chariot can impress, I'm sure your Forge World Greater Daemon will be much more successful!

Kalandros
06-08-2011, 10:26
My 5th edition dragon was supplied with a 40mm base.
How about that, huh?

Its still incomprehensible how they have not made a proper base size system.

Scalebug
06-08-2011, 22:26
Mmm... it shouldn't be that many man-hours and server space investment to put up a base size list. I can...sort of... see the point of not printing it in the army books, because of thing like we now just have seen with the new Zombie Dragon base, or older models like the Chaos Dragon named character, which we can assume will have a new model sooner or later, but as a PDF they can modify when needed. Like the FAQ's.

It is just that they make the assumptions that people are intelligent enough to understand that it is not sensible that they should be allowed free advantages for taking smaller bases... people are obviously not.