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SpeedyGonzales
01-06-2005, 22:09
Hi,

I just finished Grudge bearer (http://www.blacklibrary.com/forthcoming.asp?month=96) and while the book is nothing special, it does mention some interesting things about dwarfes and their dark cousins.
As this book is written by Mr Thorpe i think it might hint at the further development those two races might take.
Warning very minor spoilers to follow.



Most interesting about dwarfes is the, imo, first mention of so-called "locomotives", which are engines used to transport cannons etc. into batlle. Possbile new warmachine perhaps? (in the far future).

Now chaos dwarfes have more info:
- earth shakker cannons are mentioned
- they still have magic users (priests of hashut)
- their elite regiment is called "immortals", which implies that the babylonian theme is still in use, as that was also the name of the bodyguard regiment of the persian kings.
- they have a giant walking warmachine, called the collosus

That's it, if anything of this finds it's way into future army books, i claim right of first mention :D

tzeentchgiant
01-06-2005, 22:39
Is it A giant walking war machine, or they have walking warmachines, I hope to god it's the latter, that way it'll be wonderful when they finally make an appearance.

Good work

TG

Rathgar
01-06-2005, 22:43
I really like this idea of taking the CD into a more Babylonian/Sumerian feel.

Here's hoping the evil stunned ones get some attention soon!

SpeedyGonzales
01-06-2005, 22:56
In the text the "good" dwarfs know about the walking warmachine and what's it called (as generic name "a Collosus" not "the Collosus" ), i therefore assume that it is not a unique weapon. My guess is rare slot in rule terms.

Baggers
01-06-2005, 22:57
If this is a tentative first step to getting a Chaos Dwarf book I don't think a ginat walking engine would be one option. Can you say defiler. But it is good to see Gav Thorpe pushing the evil stunties in to the limelight once more.

LaughinGremlin
01-06-2005, 23:40
Did the book mention slaves of the CD? I was curious, as this might be a "clue" if whether or not the greenskins will still be a bulk of the army list.

SpeedyGonzales
02-06-2005, 07:47
No slaves (and no bullcentaurs and flying monsters either). However in the described battle the Chaos Dwarfes take part as allies of a chaos mortal army, which could also explain the lack of greenskin slaves.

samael
02-06-2005, 07:53
However in the described battle the Chaos Dwarfes take part as allies of a chaos mortal army, which could also explain the lack of greenskin slaves.

I do hope that they will be developed as a stand alone force (if they ever get to it) and not just another add on to the chaos army.

But anyway, any mention of them in official publications is good news, it keeps them from going on the way of the squats.

Frankly
02-06-2005, 10:10
I think they'll keep their slaves, its one of their big differences from normal dwarf lists.

macbeth
02-06-2005, 12:43
I don't think the bull centaures will be dropped, they've always been associated with CD, even before the Babilonian period.

Flying monsters... Maybe teh Great Taurus will stay, but I'm affraid the Lamasu will be dropped: sorcerers tend not to have big monsters to ride anymore (only notable exception which comes to my mind: Lord Necromancers can ride Zombie Dragons).

Greenskins... Well, th hobgoblins have a chance to stay. The others... I doubt it, I think they said that they wanted to drop the orcs, goblins and black orcs...

The boyz
02-06-2005, 13:09
However in the described battle the Chaos Dwarfes take part as allies of a chaos mortal army, which could also explain the lack of greenskin slaves.


I hope they do become a stand alone army, and not just an option to take as allies to a Chaos army.

Odin
02-06-2005, 13:29
I hope they do become a stand alone army, and not just an option to take as allies to a Chaos army.

I hope they'll be both. The most important thing is that they are an army in their own right, rather than a Kislev-style allies list. But the link with Chaos should remain, and I think they should be able to ally with Chaos (though perhaps in a more limited way).

macbeth
02-06-2005, 15:21
The problem is that now, they tend to limit the number of gods to one per army. I don't think that chaos warriors would worship Hashut.

Maybe they could take beastmen slaves instead of greenskin slaves. But they used to say that dwarves were more resistant to the taint of chaos than the other creatures. So it would mean that they would be more independent from chaos than humans.

Just look at the Dark Elves. They were created because some of them worshipped a chaos god (Slaanesh), but they are not allowed to take chaos allies, or you have to play a Slaanesh cult army.
I would rather see the chaos dwarf as being in the same situation as the dark elves: they are more or less chaotic, but they are less linked to chaos than let's say chaos warriors...

Cherubael
02-06-2005, 15:40
I hope they'll be both. The most important thing is that they are an army in their own right, rather than a Kislev-style allies list. But the link with Chaos should remain, and I think they should be able to ally with Chaos (though perhaps in a more limited way).

My hope is that they will utilise a system similar to OK,with a CD only army list but Chaos and other Evil affiliated armies able to take a CD unit as a special/rare choice

Frankly
02-06-2005, 15:46
I wonder if spear chukka's will stay. They're fricken wicked in a CD armylist ... hmmmm 30pts.

Neknoh
02-06-2005, 16:16
Most of the things already listed here seems great.

Though the one thing I would change about the slaves would be to have two categories, perhaps three, so you would have the possabillity to build a slave themed army.

Category 1:

The human and man-sized slaves.

These would be slaves they use for work in the mines and to even feed the fires with, they would have a statline along the lines of Zombies and Man-At-Arms.

There could also be different types of slaves brought from different places, there could be miner slaves with equipment along the lines of Pickaxe: Confers +1 strength, always strikes last.

There could also be slaves that where extremely cheap but that mostly had 1's and 2's for their stats.

In this category, there would also be something along the lines of Gladiators (though I am highly unsure about this one). The Gladiators would be equiped with nothing more than a Sword or a Hallberd, they would be Skirmishers and have both Frenzy and animosity.

But, they would form a more elite unit of Slaves, perhaps something along the lines of

M:4 WS:4 BS:3 S:4 T:3 I:3 A:1 W:1 Ld:8.


The second category of slaves would be the Ogre Sized ones.

Simply put, weakened Ogre Bulls and ironguts, of course, with worthless weapon options.

There could also be some Trolls and other forms of slaves.

The third category would be Slave Giants, though even weaker than the Ogre Kingdoms ones, but, with the options armour and/or weapons

SpeedyGonzales
02-06-2005, 18:05
Imo CDs shouldn't use slaves except hobgoblins, that would make the army more distinct and would fit into the background, showing CDs as being afraid of their slaves (see Black Orc rebellion).
I also don't see CDs as being keen on gladiator fights, leave that to the dark elves, CDs might be evil but they are still Dwarfes (as in: why waste a slave for entertainment, if it could be used to toil for gold etc.)

Crube
02-06-2005, 18:30
I have to say I hope they dont redo CDs anytime soon. I have sincerest symapthies for CD players out there, but come on, give me time to paint my new Wood Elves when they appear beofre releasing another load of shiny toys Ive been waiting for...

Inquis. Jaeger
02-06-2005, 19:19
I have to say I hope they dont redo CDs anytime soon. I have sincerest symapthies for CD players out there, but come on, give me time to paint my new Wood Elves when they appear beofre releasing another load of shiny toys Ive been waiting for...

My sentiments exactly...

tzeentchgiant
02-06-2005, 20:07
Well if we haven't heard about them by now, it is very very unlikely they will be released just after the Welves. I unlike you, have no fear of them being released too early, because they will do a good job on them, and they won't become a crappy linked army that has limited success because of rubbish rules,

but anyway, I deviate

TG

SpeedyGonzales
02-06-2005, 20:32
I agree, the real question is: will they be released (if that happens at all) before or after the next edition shift?

Xxcha
02-06-2005, 21:23
Maybe they could count as a rare choice in chaos mortal armies with only a few units that you could take.

EffCee
02-06-2005, 21:59
As Chaos Dwarfs keep getting mentioned more and more they are getting fleshed out. I think that this is a pretty good indication that they will be worked on at some point, just not anytime soon. Bring em on that's what I say.

LaughinGremlin
02-06-2005, 22:22
Slaves separated CD from regular dwarfs in the past (and present), but it's possible that colossus machines and other newly introduced concepts could be what separate the CD's from the D's in the future.

If slaves still exist on the battlefield in the next list, I'd vote that they'd just be hobgoblins. As stated earlier, CD find the black orcs hard to control, so they could eventually no longer use black orcs for security purposes, and it could be said that the gobbos and gnobs are too fragile/annoying for lasting long in the harsh mines when compared to the heartier, yet not too powerful hobgoblins. Ogres can already join CD as mercenaries, so let's not worry about ogre slaves. Besides - they'd be harder to control than black orcs.

Now, the slaves better not be allowed on wolves if the CD don't want them to run away from the Bull Centaurs... I don't think they would be trusted with a ranged artillery piece like a balista either if you think about it... ...dwarfs man a bolt thrower, so why not the CD?

Let's see more dwarfs -- less slaves on the battlefield -- keep them working in the lava tubes where they belong. Oh, how I'd love to help write the next CD book!

Crube
02-06-2005, 22:31
All I have to say is.........oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease....

75hastings69
03-06-2005, 08:50
No slaves (and no bullcentaurs and flying monsters either). However in the described battle the Chaos Dwarfes take part as allies of a chaos mortal army, which could also explain the lack of greenskin slaves.


I have the new WFR Bestiary in front of me, it lists Chaos Dwarfs and Bull Centaurs, so let's hope they make an appearance in the new army list (whenever it may be).

HiveTrygon
04-06-2005, 03:43
If a dream of mine would come true we'd have:
Chaos dwarf warriors, like hell cannon crew
Chaos dwarf spearmen
Chaos dwarf crossbowmen
bull centaurs
walking collosus machine like giants (sinbad the old movie anyone)
massive cannons
hell cannons
manticore riders
stone wizards
and slaves just for expendalble troops, fodder, no weapons 1pt a piece. :evilgrin:

Voss
04-06-2005, 08:31
The GW folks have stated repeatedly at Games Days that the chaos dwarves aren't coming any time soon. If they're even appearing on a schedule at this point, its the far fringe of a two-year plan. Take 2007 as an (unlikely) earliest possible re-appearance. 2008-2009 seems more likely in my head though.

Rik Valdis
04-06-2005, 16:23
As a re-write of dwarves seems to be approaching is there a chance that the CD will simply come as a fully legal back of the book list, like southlands, with maybe a sprue to make them more evil and maybe a couple of unique sets? I hope this doesnt happen and I dont think it will, but it does seem like a possiblity.

When/If CD are ever re-released I want to see a seperate 'hat-sprue' or at tleast some alternative heads as I absolutely love the hats, but I know a lot of people disagree so I reckon gamers should be given the choice. You could even put a civil war over hats into the fluff!!

PARTYCHICORITA
04-06-2005, 17:05
i really hope they will redo the CD and actually i feel they current army list is quiet good(allthough a couple of new units would be nice) I also hope they keep the babylonian theme which i love and that they remain a stand alone army like the OK

tzeentchgiant
04-06-2005, 17:09
I think at the moment CD are pre fleshing out by GW, I wish I could say for sure when or if work will begin n the, but when it does happen I like many other am expecting a fairly serious revamp, a lot of change.

Also I hope they do base some of the monsters on those in the sinbad films, they were badass.

TG

Inquis. Jaeger
05-06-2005, 01:47
It would be great to see a fully-fleshed out CD army, done in a 'darker' way, much the same as the Brets and the (rumoured) Wood Elves.

I loved the Hellcannon crew - the Cannon itself looked a bit pants, but the crew were awesome. If they did an army like that, I for one would not be complaining.

metro_gnome
05-06-2005, 03:04
if your interested in the hellcannon rules... check out my thoughts on the future of Chaos dwarves in the rules development forum...

http://www.portent.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1261

Lady Bastet
07-06-2005, 03:36
I predicted a form of Golem many years ago, would be so sweet if the Army Book eventually proves me to be correct.

This Colossus you speak of gives me hope.

aznsk8s87
07-06-2005, 10:15
the crew are pretty damn awesome.

I've got a friend who does chaos dwarves (not sure if this is legal; but then again he only collects). Just a little bit of GS can do wonders.

Lady Bastet
07-06-2005, 14:29
I would have said a sharp knife in order to remove the laughable hats.

cubbster
07-06-2005, 19:10
I really like the new chaos dwarves from the hellcannon, they really look like 'fallen' versions of their ancestors! I can't wait until GW come back to them, and to see some crazy chaos dwarf war machines would be so damn cool!

Xxcha
08-06-2005, 22:04
Do you think that all chaos dwarf war machines would spit fire/deamons like the hellcannon?

Inquis. Jaeger
10-06-2005, 03:13
Do you think that all chaos dwarf war machines would spit fire/deamons like the hellcannon?

Not if they all look as bad as the Hellcannon.

twisted_mentat
10-06-2005, 03:52
Well, i agree that there should be just Generic Slave units.

I think they would do Chaos dwarfs be in both a stand alone army, and an another faction for chaos, though they could only be taken by chaos undivided armies, and the warmachines would be limited.

on the collossus, if i remmeber correctly, CD sorcerors because they are still dwarfs, are slowly turning to stone as they cast more and more spells, maybe the collosus would have something to do with that...

Yanos
10-06-2005, 08:55
Oooo I like that! Kind of a tie-in to 40K Dreadnoughts maybe, you could have a near-petrified sorceror at the heart of a Colossus, keeping it going by sheer force of will. And of course there'd be all kindsa things to go wrong with it as a result (Rage? Rust? Seizing up? The munchies?)

Gotrek
11-06-2005, 02:15
that might be a tad too much like the giant scorpion thing from TK don't you think?

Renka
11-06-2005, 18:54
I think that at the moment, Games Workshop is really fleshing out the background story of the Warhammer world, and they are giving away fragments of the story behind everything in the entire world. That's why they gave way a map of the Warhammer world all of the sudden, and that's why they have been releasing the Battle Grounds book (i.e. Lustria) and all the talk about explorers and the Silk Road and all kinds of other bits of information. This may also be connected with the sudden re-release of the Warhammer Roleplaying Game and all the background books for that supplement.
What I am going at is that I believe Games Workshop are simply telling us that Chaos Dwarfs (along with many other races) still exists, even though they won't get a army book any time soon (or indeed at all).

Inquis. Jaeger
12-06-2005, 02:05
There does seem to have been a general trend in the last few months to give out information that doesn't solely concern the Old World, although that may have been just the OK release.

Renka
12-06-2005, 12:17
Lustria isn't part of the Old World either, mind you.
The plot thickens.

aznsk8s87
13-06-2005, 01:15
It's called the "Conquest of the New World" for a reason :D

Freak Ona Leash
14-06-2005, 01:28
The golem thing sounds beast. I just wish they would give my poor old "good" stunties(the fact that they are norscan berserkers leaves it up in the air to wherther they are good or not) the same thing :cries: And please make the giant pe...uh, "hats" go away. FOR EVAH :rolleyes:

Yanos
14-06-2005, 10:01
that might be a tad too much like the giant scorpion thing from TK don't you think?

Not so much; the hypothetical Colossus would be more akin to the Power Walker from Alien, or indeed the War Walker or Dreadnought from 40K, in that the thing inside is (more or less) still alive. I imagine it'd appeal to CD Sorcerors that they could wreak some beastly havoc before they become completely petrified! And I imagine they could make a superb model for it, something giant-sized with a dwarf at the centre surrounded by pipes and steaming protrusions, and all manner of sorcerous paraphernalia!

aznsk8s87
15-06-2005, 09:18
Gnomeran City from WoW, anyone?