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Holland
07-08-2011, 01:08
I would just like to get the opinions on what the military of the Eldar empire was like before their ultimate fall and collapse of their empire?

weapons, organizations, armor, tactics, ect?

TheLaughingGod
07-08-2011, 02:11
I'm not sure pre-Fall Eldar had militaries as they are known in the 41St millenium . I believe they had vast armies of automated weapons. Probably not dissimilar to Wraithlords and Wraith guard, only without an animated spirit. Pure machine.

Otherwise, similar to the Dark Eldar. I suspect that their house-based system would be in place. Likely Eldar fought Eldar in disputes or for sport.


Titans and other walkers would be common, possibly even exclusive, with every Eldar warrior being armed with a titan.

Also, fightercraft and super-heavy fliers. And likely, ProtoRaiders in the form ot pleasure barges, armed for sport hunting and slave capture.

Shamana
07-08-2011, 09:57
That sounds a bit too much, although I can imagine it on homeworlds. On the other hand, I can imagine a significant navy, at least to make sure their trade vessels (which would eventually become the craftworlds) are protected.

Inanimate machines doesn't sound like what they'd do, for cultural reasons. The wars with the Necron would be faraway memory, but even then "sentient machines" without a soul of their own would likely be a taboo. Then again, just before the Fall it is possible that it might be disregarded.

Am-heh
07-08-2011, 10:54
That sounds a bit too much, although I can imagine it on homeworlds. On the other hand, I can imagine a significant navy, at least to make sure their trade vessels (which would eventually become the craftworlds) are protected.

Inanimate machines doesn't sound like what they'd do, for cultural reasons. The wars with the Necron would be faraway memory, but even then "sentient machines" without a soul of their own would likely be a taboo. Then again, just before the Fall it is possible that it might be disregarded.

Dark Eldar habits come from this period before the fall. difference is .. amongst those who live like this, only eldar in the web and not psyker don't die in the birth moment of slaanesh.

So before the fall many eldar live like DE plus with a lot of psychic excess

Imagine an Archon Farseer with his court of Warlock homonculus and so on merge Eldar with Dark Eldar to make more "extreme" units.

i think it will be a good start of what can give birth to slaanesh. Overpower and decay

Ordo Hydra
07-08-2011, 11:59
I would just like to get the opinions on what the military of the Eldar empire was like before their ultimate fall and collapse of their empire?

I'm afraid very little is known about the Eldar empire before the Fall. Its believed that their military made extensive use of animated machines due to a line that Vect made about the time before the collapse of the Eldar civilization. So, we can presumably say that they were perhaps similar to Wraithguards/Lords but animated.

I can only assume that the ancient Eldar did not take the steps the current ones do with regards to shielding themselves from the corruptive natures of the warp. The novel Farseer has an Eldar seer arrive on a Crone World containing an Eldar temple dedicated to Asuryan and he laments at how the structures psi-engines were completely unshielded which attracts daemonic attentions.


weapons,

Presumably, it would be a mix of Craftworld and Dark Eldar weapons. I think the designer diary for the 5th Edition Dark Eldar Codex in White Dwarf says something to that effect. We know that the ancient Eldar did make use of dark matter super weapons stored at various sites as there was a White Dwarf story by Gav Thorpe about how Craftworlders used it against an Imperial colony after its governor stole some spiritstones to be used as jewelry.


organizations,

Organizations as in how their military is arranged or organizations in general? Since you mentioned military I assume its that but might interest you to know that the suns that were stolen by the early Dark Eldar were run by Solar Cults that maintained their functions in lightning up the ports in the Webway like Commoragh.

Now, on how their military was organized is a different thing. The Aspect system wasnt in effect in that time and they may or may not have used legions of robotic soldiers so we can't really determine how their armies were organized.


armor,

Similar to the weapons, I would imagine it was a mixture between Craftworld and Dark Eldar armour.


tactics, ect?

Again, nothing to base it on. If they used machines, they could just have sent perhaps legions of them. I would imagine that their battlefield doctrine would be very different from current Eldar since both the Craftworlders and Dark Eldar simply attack and retreat into the Webway. In the days of the ancient Eldar empire, I would imagine they wouldnt have relied so much on such a tactic since they had worlds to defend and foes to fight so they couldnt afford to retreat. But thats my speculation on the subject.

Hope that helps and thats just what I percieve. I could be wrong on certain points as I am not an expert on the fluff but thats what I know.

FlashGordon
07-08-2011, 13:22
I would say robots and rangers(pirates). The Eldar was pretty much just minding their own up before the fall(too much). The major force inte rest of the galaxy would be the orks.

Comp
07-08-2011, 14:03
Rangers have always been described in the fluff as a reaction to the strict social structures of the craftworld which were in turn a reaction to the fall. The Eldar armies probably didn't look much like either successor in organisation and probably had extremely different tactical doctrines - much less emphasis on raiding and surgical strikes in favour of the tactics needed to take and hold worlds.

I do rather think they might have been organised around the Noble Houses we know existed and were powerful, house guard units and so on. Perhaps each noble house maintained an elite well equipped strike force, competing to supply and train it better than their rivals could manage.

Perhaps the tactical doctrines of the Space Marines and the nature of their equipment reflect human cultural memories of being kicked to the curb by elite eldar forces appearing out of nowhere with unstoppable technology to smash apart command and control centres and scatter the local militias through terror tactics and sheer mobility...

Lord Commissar Aquila
07-08-2011, 14:16
Probably a mix of Craftworld and Dark Eldar tech, although it would probably resemble Craftworld more than Dark Eldar. Note that their Empire was larger than the Imperium is currently, so there would probably be more diversity in their equipment than there is today.

eldargal
07-08-2011, 14:16
Honestly, we have no idea. We know the pre-Fall Eldar themselves had both thepsychic abilitities of the Craftworlders and the reflexes and physical abilities of the Dark Eldar, we know Raiders and Venom are based on pre-Fall leisure Craft. We know much of their combat was automated and that they were so much more advanced than the rest of the galaxy they could ignore them completely.

It has long been known that the pre-fall Eldar could turn suns on and off like lightglobes (slight hyperbole alert), so for all we know they didn't need a defense force in the strictest sense. If you can make the enemies sun pop, do you need a conventional military?

Ordo Hydra
07-08-2011, 15:10
I do rather think they might have been organised around the Noble Houses we know existed and were powerful, house guard units and so on. Perhaps each noble house maintained an elite well equipped strike force, competing to supply and train it better than their rivals could manage.

I could personally see that as well. That much of the military was automatons whilst the houses had actual warriors within their ranks. We know that the Eldar had noble houses like the House of Eldanash and Ulthanash. The Dark Eldar's ancestors were originally ruled by noble houses until the Kabals came into power.

Also, I think as the Eldar went into decadence, perhaps that era saw the rise in the number of Corsairs and their fleets.

FlashGordon
07-08-2011, 15:41
Note that their Empire was larger than the Imperium is currently, so there would probably be more diversity in their equipment than there is today.

We have as far as i know no evidence of that at all, it is probably more like the Imperium now, that considers the whole galaxy as their territory, when in fact it is not.

eldargal
07-08-2011, 15:54
It is complicated, from what I recall the Eldar population was concentrated on the homeworlds (now Crone worlds), with colonies and maiden worlds throughout the galaxy. They were the only significant galactic Empire at the time though. So while they may not have been present on every world, with the webway and their advanced technology most of the galaxy was their playground.

Clockwork-Knight
07-08-2011, 18:08
I imagine that while the automaton-army (if what Vect said was true - he does hint that it might just be a lie he told for fun to the prisoner) did the conquering and cleansing of the worlds (orks probably infested enough worlds that their numbers needed to be kept down), I could see the warriors of the Eldar-houses going around and hunt aliens like humans in a way that the Wyld Hunt would do, coming upon a small colonial world, shooting humans for fun, hounding them and then keeping their heads as grizzly trophies on some wall while drinking some eldar wine and telling about how boring the latest hunt was.

Jaded Patriot
08-08-2011, 16:08
A post-scarcity army would be terrifying to face. An army of automatons sounds about right - if everything else in your entire existence is provided for you, surely it makes sense that defense and warfare is the same.

My best guess is the Eldar houses each maintained a few 'generals' who could go manage a war when it was needed - essentially sitting in a C&C node telling the automatons what to destroy next. This would only be when a particularly crafty foe would require such attention - normally they would just bump up against the automated defense systems and get blasted.

Individual Eldar probably only fought for sport - I doubt there was really such a thing as an Eldar soldier back then.