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Trace07
07-08-2011, 03:07
Hello

Im just getting back into warhammer, this is my first time playing 8th ed. Can some one please answer a question for me..

I noticed in the book it says spears get +1 rank. is that plus the supporting attacks? so does this mean a normal unit with spears fights in three ranks?

And then so HE spearman now fight in four ranks since they get an extra +1?

Mage
07-08-2011, 03:47
A normal high elf unit with spears would fight in four ranks with supporting attacks going by what your posting, though I'm no high elf player. Means if you do a horde its 5 ranks attacking, four of which are supporting attacks

enyoss
07-08-2011, 06:42
You have it exactly right Trace07 :).

warplock
07-08-2011, 09:05
Which leads to the infamous example of 50 HE spearmen deployed 10 wide and 5 deep, meaning all 50 spearmen can attack (provided the 10 at the front are in base contact with an enemy).
Sickening!

Gonzoyola
07-08-2011, 09:41
50 attacks, Striking first, hitting on 3's Rerollable? Yes please.

T10
07-08-2011, 13:54
You'll probably want a bit more than 50 spearmen in order to retain the full effect of the formation for a few rounds of close combat.

Even so, Strength 3 attacks aren't exceptionally reliable when dealing with anything more than Toughness 2 and even moderate armour. Better invest the Lore of Beasts and up their Strength to 4 with Wyssan's Wildform.

Also, you may need to get used to enemies trying to get into your flanks since all you've got is this one big unit. If they get into both flanks, or one flank and the rear, then you can't reform to face them and will be stuck fighting with just a fraction of the unit's full potential.

-T10

eron12
08-08-2011, 00:19
50 attacks, Striking first, hitting on 3's Rerollable? Yes please.

Yep, so you get an absolutely insane number of hits that shrink away to next to nothing with to wound rolls and armor saves, especally against T4

warplock
08-08-2011, 00:37
Yep, so you get an absolutely insane number of hits that shrink away to next to nothing with to wound rolls and armor saves, especally against T4

I don't know about that, the sheer weight of hits makes them truly formidable. They kill an average of 7 Temple Guard per round, for example, which is no mean feat - Chaos Warriors with Great Weapons only average 8 TG kills per round.

Shield of Freedom
08-08-2011, 01:51
...and against any enemy worth fighting you'll lose 10+ elves per round.

Tarian
08-08-2011, 02:48
Okkams Mindrazor.

eron12
08-08-2011, 04:03
I don't know about that, the sheer weight of hits makes them truly formidable. They kill an average of 7 Temple Guard per round, for example, which is no mean feat - Chaos Warriors with Great Weapons only average 8 TG kills per round.

See I would say that starting with 50 rerollable hits and ending with 7 deaths is next to nothing. It's only 14% of the total. The same number of dwarf warriors with great weapons attacks will get you twice the wounds, and that's without a reroll. I don't know about Chaos warriors.

tiekwando
08-08-2011, 04:04
Mindrazor makes them one of, if not the, best units in the game. Wither can also do a pretty number on most opponents that don't have big armor saves.

Lord Zarkov
08-08-2011, 09:25
Mindrazor makes them one of, if not the, best units in the game. Wither can also do a pretty number on most opponents that don't have big armor saves.

Having faced a Teclis list based around Mindrazor and Wither, I'd definitely have to agree

Tallopolis
09-08-2011, 15:11
Remember that Midrazor does not increase your strength and only affects the roll "to wound", meaning that the opponents still get their full armour save as you are still S3...

I prefer using T7 and regen off life Teclis, and Flaming sword off my dragon mage (Lothern Sea Guard for the Bows :D)

Lord Zarkov
09-08-2011, 15:41
Remember that Midrazor does not increase your strength and only affects the roll "to wound", meaning that the opponents still get their full armour save as you are still S3...

I prefer using T7 and regen off life Teclis, and Flaming sword off my dragon mage (Lothern Sea Guard for the Bows :D)

Nope, it's a complete replacement, see Errata:


Reference Section – The Lore of Shadow, Okkam’s
Mindrazor
Change “[...]Models in the target unit use their Leadership
instead of Strength when rolling To Wound with[...]” to
“[...]Models in the target unit use the Leadership
Characteristic written on their profile, instead of their Strength,
for[...]”

AMWOOD co
09-08-2011, 15:48
Remember that Midrazor does not increase your strength and only affects the roll "to wound", meaning that the opponents still get their full armour save as you are still S3...

Actually they changed it in the Errata.


Change “[...]Models in the target unit use their Leadership
instead of Strength when rolling To Wound with[...]” to
“[...]Models in the target unit use the Leadership
Characteristic written on their profile, instead of their Strength,
for[...]”

So, WS 4, Always Strike First I5 (reroll to hit against most things), and S8? Yes, please.

Tallopolis
09-08-2011, 15:51
Well.... that showed me then :D

S

Grimgormx
09-08-2011, 19:11
As I have said all the time.... I hate HE

popisdead
09-08-2011, 19:32
A High Elf spearmen horde dominated the last tournament I went to. With Okhams Mindrazor it was pretty brutal.

N810
09-08-2011, 19:38
A High Elf spearmen horde dominated the last tournament I went to. With Okhams Mindrazor it was pretty brutal.

Heve been on the recievein of a frenzied mindrazored rerilling to hit horde of high elf spearmen, they killed 30 some saurus warriors in one round, I didn't even get to stike back with a single full rank.

warplock
10-08-2011, 16:36
See I would say that starting with 50 rerollable hits and ending with 7 deaths is next to nothing. It's only 14% of the total. The same number of dwarf warriors with great weapons attacks will get you twice the wounds, and that's without a reroll. I don't know about Chaos warriors.

You're right, I think I praised the Elves a little too much, 7 kills isn't really as impressive as I thought when you compare it to what other units can do! Chaos Warriors get way more kills, I just didn't take into account additional attacks (i.e. assumed the unit was only 5 wide - d'oh!)