PDA

View Full Version : Playing Doubles with Beasts / Ogres



Mozzamanx
08-08-2011, 22:29
Hiya,

I'm entering a local Doubles tournament in 2 months time and have paired up with a friends Ogre army. I was hoping for some advice on writing the list, since I'm still fairly new to Beasts and am limited in my access to models.

An extremely important point to make, Beastmen are given an extra 50pts for the tournament. I've no idea why, but I assume its prejudice from people with no experience getting their head kicked in by Gor. But I won't complain.

On the face of it, they seem to have some key concepts through both armies:

- Both are fast, with M 5/6
- Both rely on lots of T4, unarmoured wounds
- Reasonably low WS/I, made up by number of attacks

Especially with point 3 in mind, it would seem that the standard Herdstone / 2 Shadow Shamans would be a good place to start. They can Miasma key combats for both sides of the team and are generally just as useful for Beasts as they are for Ogres.
However, due to 250pts of hero per player, this would then mean I have no access to a BSB of my own and so it would need to be provided by my partner. This in turn means no hero-level Butchers. Are they critical to the success of an Ogre army, and am I unfairly handicapping my partner?

However! Thanks to my 50pt bonus, I can just about squeeze in a Wargor BSB and 2 L1 Shaman, for 260pts (I have 262 available for Heroes!). Of course they are all naked, but ultimately I can if Butchers are really all that.

I'm also reconsidering whether I need a Greater Bray or not. I normally run a L3 Beast, but I'm not convinced that he is as useful for Ogres. I've mainly gone for the +1S of Wyssans, so its slightly less useful for S4 Ogres. Ultimately I can get another unit for his cost, so is he worth it? Especially with a Slaughtermaster running the show.

Core is nice and easy, either a blob of 30 Gor or 2 of 20. Still undecided on which to run, but the lack of a Beast Banner means the giant horde will be less efficient than usual.
Special will likely be a unit of 20 Bestigor, and 2-3 Razorgor. The tournament limits me to 2 of each special, so I cannot spam 3 lone Razors. I can also get a single Chariot together before the deadline, so either a Razor or Tusker depending on the list.

Ultimately, I think I have a fair understanding of both armies and am mostly limited by the points limit, and my own models. I think it will probably end up looking like:

- 2 L1 Shadow Shaman with a Herdstone and Chalice of Dark Rain
- 30 - 40 Gor
- 20 Bestigor
- 2 Razorgor
- Razorgor / Tuskgor Chariot
- Possibly a Lord choice, if I can get the points together

Does this seem like a fair starting point for a Doubles half? I will probably need my partner to provide a BSB, but other than that I'd like to say I can pull my weight. Lots of bodies, 2 fighting blocks and some magic support, with a little bit of padding for ranged protection.
I have no idea for tactics, beyond the standard Beastmen play. I don't think the inclusion of Ogres will change that very much because they run along similar lines.


Extremely grateful for any and all assistance,

Thanks.

metalloveman
09-08-2011, 08:53
Chalice of dark rain is a great buy for both armies as is shadow/herdstone spam, I'd take a beastlord geared for defence and give the bestigor the +1 ld banner for ld10 if your not running a bsb. Chariots aren't really nessescary as ogres have impact hits naturally and you can miasma units with high I that bother you.

Scammel
09-08-2011, 09:23
Don't worry too much about the lack of Butchers, as long as you're able to support the Ogres with your own hexes and buffs they should handle themselves fine. Wyssan's will certainly help them a great deal, though it might not always be necessary against T3 stuff there's a lot of armies out there which they will have a hard time putting a dent in (WoC mainly, though anything with T4 can be harder to shift than you'd like).

Gotrek
09-08-2011, 18:38
i've played in a double tourney with beast paired up with ogres myself and i went with lvl 4 melee shaman (beasts) and the BSB with beast banner. that banner is too damn good to pass and while the herdstone/ miasma spammers is defenetly a good choice the impact of a tyrant supported by beast magic is just overwhelming. we had an opponent with a steam tank and we mathhammered it on our heads what a tyrant with tenderizer buffed with savage beast would do to the tank and lets just say that it doesn't even survive 1 round. alas we didn't get to fight the steam tank to prove it but we had the solution for it anyway.

the thing is beastmen have fantastic magic abilities along with melee while ogres only have melee ad both have reduced LD so the solutions we came up with to mitigate our shortcoming work perfectly for both armies. it's a win win situation and ogres are perfect to team up with beastmen. just make sure you handle the magic part.

Mozzamanx
10-08-2011, 20:41
Right, thanks for the help so far guys.

Going by the advice here, and various other sites, I've reworked my initial ideas into 2 lists. I'd appreciate your advice on which is better:

List 1:
Great Bray Shaman- L3 Beasts, Additional weapon, Jagged Dagger, Crown of Command
Bray Shaman- L1 Shadow

Gor- 31, 2 hand weapons, Full Command

Bestigor- 20, Full Command
Razorgor
Razorgor
Harpies- 5, Scout



List the second!:
Great Bray Shaman- L3 Beasts, Additional weapon, Jagged Dagger
Bray Shaman- L1 Shadow
Bray Shaman- L1 Shadow, Chalice of Dark Rain

Gor- 30, Full Command

Bestigor- 20, Full Command
Razorgor
(Either 5 non-Scout Harpies, or a second Razorgor)


Both lists are 1049pts. The first has more harassment units and access to the Crown of Command, hopefully knocking out ranged units by hand and then butchering. The second has traded a harassment unit for the Chalice of Dark Rain, and the Crown for a second Shaman. I'd like to say the Chalice is roughly on par in terms of ranged defense, and I've traded the safety of Stubborn for more utility in magic.

Alternatively I could go for a blend, dropping a Shadow Shaman and a Bestigor in exchange for the stubborn hat and a harassment unit, meaning I have enormous anti-range but less in the way of magic.


Its worth mentioning that my partner was very keen on taking his BSB and so I've let him run off with it. His list is very Ogre heavy with few Gnoblars, including 5 Bulls, 5 Ironguts and 2x4 Leadbelchers I believe.

Malorian
10-08-2011, 21:27
Only 250 each? (300 for beastmen)

Screw magic, get more bodies out there!

Take only 1 character to be your general and then as many bestigors as you can fit. Then turn next to filling in your core with a massive gor block.

Mozzamanx
10-08-2011, 21:30
Sorry, I meant 250pts of Hero allowance. I get 1050pts overall.

Good point on bodies, but as I said I am slightly limited in my access to models. I can take up to 40 Gor, but only have 20 Bestigor unless I borrow / buy another set.

Malorian
10-08-2011, 21:32
Do what must be done to get a horde of 40 bestigor!

Short of a razorgor/minotaur horde, they are the best unit in the beastmen book!

Feefait
11-08-2011, 01:03
I played a double game with my beastman a couple weeks back and went centigors heavy. With some shamans and a ghorgon I just went in to support and we annihilated everything. That's what is do :)

Archis
12-08-2011, 18:41
Just be careful about the allied rules, if they are using the rules out of the book you can't use a different races BSB for rerolls. I like the first list more. If you are putting you great bray shaman in the bestigors I would drop the scout off the harpies and give the bestigors the +1 ld banner. If you aren't putting him in there, I'd give them the +1 movement banner. Also, I just played my beasts in a team tourney and have another coming up in November, so kick some butt for us all