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Skratchington
09-08-2011, 19:45
Hey all. After a brief hiatus from Warhammer Fantasy...I'm back. The new Vampire Counts releases have really inspired me, and I'm getting back at it with my precious and beloved undead hordes. Among other things, I'm planning on using the Ghoulish Vampire Lord model riding the Terrorgheist, putting him on foot(with a little positioning it should be a snap), and finally being able to run an awesome looking "ghoulish" or Strigoi Vampire Lord. It's been a long, long wait, but the sheer awesomeness of that model makes it all worth while. I am planning on building one mounted on the Terrorgheist as well, but that's another discussion...

Anyway, regarding the Ghoul King style Vampire Lord on foot, I'm looking for your thoughts on what would be an effective build for him, likely at the 2000 points level or so. He needs to be effective, cost-efficient, and be the solid Lord choice we Vampire Counts generals typically need.

I look forward to seeing what you think. Thanks!

EDIT: Also, what would you suggest as accompanying Heroes/other characters in an army led by such a creature? I'm definitely interested in making use of the new Wraith and/or Banshee Hero choices as well, not to mention a Necromancer(to, of course, make use of that lovely new plastic mini we also got...)

Skratchington

lowix
09-08-2011, 20:09
Is he going to try and get in combat or just assist your amry.
I would recomend him avoiding combat, till late in the game.
Give him


Vampire Lord support (1#, 450 pts)
1 Vampire Lord, 450 pts (Vampire; Level 3 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Undead)
1 Dragonhelm
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Crown of the Damned
1 Helm of Commandment
1 Aura of Dark Majesty
1 Avatar of Death (Shield)
1 Ghoulkin
1 0. Invocation of Nehek

Vampire Lord combat (1#, 455 pts)
1 Vampire Lord, 455 pts (Vampire; Level 3 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Undead)
1 Blood Drinker
1 Talisman of Preservation
1 The Other Trickster's Shard
1 Ghoulkin
1 Infinite Hatred
1 Red Fury
1 0. Invocation of Nehek

For rares to two more Terrorgheist with a vargruff. If they go shooting heavy it makes them really think about what to shoot. Have the other monsters kill the warmachines.

Maoriboy007
09-08-2011, 21:32
Beatial Ghoul King Theme
Vampire Lord Lvl3
Forbidden Lore (Beasts)
Summon Ghouls
Beastial Fury (Eternal Hatred) or Call of the Wild (MotBA for summoning or beast spells)
Thick Skinned (Tricksters Helm)
Thick Skulled (Crown of the Damned)
Mighty Sinew (Sword of Might)

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 02:33
Thanks for the great builds, guys, I very much appreciate it! The three builds here all look promising, and I'm pretty confident that I can now put together a suitable "bestial" Prince among Ghouls. Should be cool.

Of course, though, this Ghoul King will need some backup, in the form of accompanying Heroes and the like. Vampires are, of course, vital, so I'll need at least one Hero level Vampire to back him up(a Varghulf will also provide more Vampiric support)...likely a more thematically typical Vampire, less bestial, but still under the thrall of the Lord creature. Also, I think a wretched and sniveling Necromancer would fit nicely too. Also, from the crypts the beast Lord call his kingdom, I'm sure a Wraith and/or Banshee Hero would make good sense too.

I'm now really looking for your thoughts on what Heroes, and what Hero builds would best suit and back this Lord up?

Thanks again for the responses, and I look forward to see what you think his Hero retinue should look like.

Skratchington

malisteen
10-08-2011, 05:15
BSB wight, possibly with the standard of strigos?

Cairne wraiths and Bansees are decent heroes out of the box. Ye olde necromancer with extra spell and dispel scroll is perfectly functional. How many points are you talking?

As for your lord, I'd echo the forbidden lore (beasts) and crown of the damned suggestions as particularly fitting. The crown of the damned in particular is a perfect fit for the strigoi, reflecting both their physical toughness and their mental instability.

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 12:33
Thanks so much, malisteen! As for points levels, I was thinking along the lines of 2000 points to start with, so I can play normal pick up games..and of course, going up from there. I totally agree with the Forbidden Lore(Beasts), and also the Crown of the Damned build as well...I think it works out perfectly for a ghoulish, Strigoi-esque Vampire.

Thanks again, malisteen!

Skratchington

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 14:23
Also, I've got my Vampire Lord build pretty much sorted, thanks very much in part to the responses here. He's expensive...very, very expensive, but then again, so are most Vampire Lords. Might as well make the most of him, I suppose. And I think he'll do the trick nicely, both in terms of in game effectiveness and theme.

"Prince Mordekhai, The Maggot King"(tentative honourific for now...still working on it)
Vampire Lord-
+1 Magic Level (Level 3)
Forbidden Lore (Beasts) + Invocation of Nehek
Summon Ghouls
Infinite Hatred
Ghoulkin
Sword of Might (Infernal Strength)
Trickster's Helm (Necrotic Flesh)
Crown of the Damned


Edit: So, in terms of an army led by this beast, I'm thinking of going slightly more thematically oriented, rather than totally efficiency and effectiveness oriented. That said, I do believe if I do this right, it'll still turn out to be an effective army. So, Prince Mordekhai here is obviously a Strigoi-esque Vampire Lord, and as such, his army should reflect this. I'm picturing him ruling over some Ghoul clans, they viewing them as their god-made-flesh and absolute ruler and master. So, Crypt Ghouls are in. Also, the crypts, tombs, and corpse strewn underworld that Mordekhai and his minions claim as their domain would most likely include a good few Skeletons, the bodies of long dead warriors and such. So, Skeleton Warriors are also in. This pretty much takes care of the Core requirements for the army. Of course, Dire Wolves can also make an appearance if necessary, being bestial and most certainly attracted to the Ghoul Lord's necromantic aura, among other things. Not that I'm picturing having a lot of points left over to play around with in this army...I'm thinking every single point will need to be well spent, considering Mordekhai's own huge points cost alone. I'm not entirely sure on appropriate unit sizes and compositions for Crypt Ghouls and Skeleton Warriors in, say, a 2000 point force either, so if you have any thoughts regarding this, please, by all means, share!

As for Special choices, well, I'm definitely leaning towards a goodly sized unit of Grave Guard. Again, the tombs and barrows Mordekhai and his followers call home could have easily been the resting place of some Wights, which the Ghoul King would have most certainly immediately raised and dominated, seeing them as his debased version of a "royal guard", fit for the King of Maggots. So there's that. Again, unit size and composition would be helpful here. I'm thinking Great Weapons on these fellows, but I'm not sure...

The Rare choices are easy...Varghulfs and Terrorgheists. Perfect.

Again, the specifics of the additional Hero choices are giving me a little trouble at the moment. I definitely want a Cairn Wraith Hero for sure...at least one! A Necromancer is an auto-include for me too, although how to best equip him is something I'll have to work on, and would definitely love suggestions on. malisteen already suggested an extra spell(which one would you suggest?) and a Dispel Scroll...sounds simple enough, and should do the trick. As for others, a Wight King BSB would likely be very helpful, and I'd feel even better if I could include another Vampire in the mix too, but I know that's really, really pushing the points past their breaking point...at the 2000 points level, anyway.

Let me know what you think, and thanks again!

Skratchington

Lukasz_VT
10-08-2011, 16:03
I believe the Maggot King is a sobriquet of Nurgle.

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 16:11
That could very well be....actually, to be honest, I used to have a Nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos army, and the Nurgle Warshrine in it was modeled as a "maggot man"(literally a man-like figure composed entirely of squirming maggots) carried along on a palanquin toted by a horde of Nurglings...it was an awesome model. I actually called it "The Shrine of the Maggot King", and I always liked that name...so I kind of jacked my own name for use on Mordekhai. However, perhaps you're right, and it is a little on the Nurgley side. I did say, though, that the name is a work in progress...so, it's coming.

Skratchington

[DaT]Seraf
10-08-2011, 16:36
when did graveguards become part of a strigoi themed army

i can understand a few skels and zombies but wouldn't your army have more of the old Strigoi style if you went with Ghouls,VampBats, Varghulf and Terrogheist instead of a large block of rank and file elite skels which definitly break fluff

if you just take it for the fightingpower ok but a strigoi wouldnt take a "royal guard"

for sizes i would take at least 30+ per ghoul unit, maybe a horde of skels with spears(40+) to get a nice 40 attacks, if you want to take skels at all

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 18:12
I think, regarding the "royal guard" Grave Guard idea for a "Strigoi" themed army isn't really that far out. In my mind, and in terms of background as well, the more bestial Vampires(which USED to be called Strigoi...they're all pretty individual now, which changes things as well, and pretty much allows us, as players, to do whatever we feel like) are quite mad...cunning, intelligent, brutal, and insane.

In my view, this mad, crypt-dwelling Vampire creating a mock court for himself makes perfect sense for me. I think perhaps that sometimes the ideas of themes are taken too far, or at least their outlines are taken too strictly. Also, like I said, in the current Vampire Counts book, Vampires are much, MUCH more individual...the bloodlines are, for the most part, gone...or at least have been stripped of their dedicated attributes. An insane, Ghoulish Vampire Lord could, in my mind, may very well find mad glee in the thought of having a retinue of Wights under his control, thinking of himself as underworld royalty...or whatever.

It really does boil down to semantics and personal views of the various Vampires. I, for one, like the more individual, less defined nature of each Vampire out there in the Warhammer world now...it lets us be a little more creative when making our character's background, and a little less restricted in what they can and cannot do.

That said, I respect what you're saying, and appreciate the response. I disagree that a Ghoul King style Vampire Lord with a retinue of Grave Guard "breaks fluff", however.

EDIT: Thanks also for the thoughts on unit sizes for Skellies and Ghouls. Your ideas sound good to me, and that was pretty much what I was thinking as well. It seems like both Ghouls and Skellies would benefit greatly from being put in a Horde formation.

Skratchington

malisteen
10-08-2011, 20:30
I like the idea of strigoi as debased, but still royal, almost divine (http://malisteen.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2h0vlc). Grave guard can fit that, although admittedly not quite so well as they fit a blood dragon army. Remember that grave guard are raised from barrows, the remains of ancient and honored heroes rotting away in forgotten tombs - those are exactly the kinds of places that strigoi make their lairs - dark and hidden places of death but still with a hint of nobility and aristocracy.

As for the crown of the damned - I wouldn't even do any sort of 'counts as' with it. Just give him a crown, or at least a circlet or wreath maybe. What is a king without his crown, after all?

Skratchington
10-08-2011, 21:02
Thank you! That's exactly the way I see it too, malisteen! Perfect..and I think you're right, I'll just leave the Crown of the Damned as it is, no need to make it a "counts as" type thing...Prince Mordekhai definitely deserves a crown of some sort, considering he is a mad, cunning, cruel, and vile royal lord among his Ghoul subjects and devotees. Makes total sense to me:)

Of course, I do think I'll still work on his title..."the Maggot King" is a little on the Nurgley side of things, sadly...so I'll come up with something.

Skratchington

No-One
10-08-2011, 21:20
Mordekhai, Lord of the Undercrofts?

Maoriboy007
10-08-2011, 21:23
Thank you! That's exactly the way I see it too, malisteen! Perfect..and I think you're right, I'll just leave the Crown of the Damned as it is, no need to make it a "counts as" type thing...Prince Mordekhai definitely deserves a crown of some sort, considering he is a mad, cunning, cruel, and vile royal lord among his Ghoul subjects and devotees. Makes total sense to me:)

Of course, I do think I'll still work on his title..."the Maggot King" is a little on the Nurgley side of things, sadly...so I'll come up with something.

Skratchington

Just call him Lord of the Eastern Barrows or Lord of the Borrow Hills.
A cool theme for his domain could be as some forgotton hills dottted with ancient crypts and barrows long forgotten.
Personally I've found the build risky but a lot of fun. Certainly more than a bunker lord - he's got staying power but be ready to lose big if he snuffs it early.

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 00:48
Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I like both of those ideas quite a bit:) "Lord of the Undercrofts"...that definitely has potential. Under...something, I can see totally working. Also, "Lord of the Eastern Barrows" or the Barrow Hills is awesome too...so many great options. I absolutely LOVE making names for my characters, it's such a great part of the game.

Your thoughts on his domain is right in line with my thinking as well, Maoriboy007, which is one of the coolest aspects of a bestial, ghoulish Vampire...they've got pretty much free reign to dig and scavenge and dominate anything and anyone they encounter in their semi-subterranean realms...it's really quite perfect.

I definitely didn't want the ever so typical "bunker" Lord either, and I'm really pleased to see the good Prince Mordekhai won't be that at all...I'm loving this!

Thanks again for the replies, gents!

Skratchington

No-One
11-08-2011, 00:57
got a name idea that just hit me, its a little more exotic, which to me is always a good thing:

Prince Mordekhai, Blood-Lord of the Sepulchre/Necropolis

whatcha think?

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 01:19
Love it, No-One! Absolutely love it! It's settled then, how about this;

Prince Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis, Fleshflayer, Oblivion's Claw

So I added a few titles that just came to me, but I'm sure he'd be known by many different names by different peoples and/or provinces of the Empire and other nations of the Old World. For the most part, though, it's Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis....so cool.

Do you like?

Skratchington

No-One
11-08-2011, 01:23
sounds awesome man, its got a real evocative feel to it, definitely lets people know he's someone not to be taken lightly

i kinda went the same route for my own Vampire character: Alaric von Carstein, The Umbral Slaughterer, The Shunned of Von Carstein

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 01:28
Thanks, No-One, for sure...I agree, it's definitely a great name for my Vampire Lord...the extra titles even add a little more history to him, like you kind of get the feeling that a few different armies and races have had run-ins with the good Prince, and none have them have been pleasant;) Thanks so much for the excellent idea!

As for your own Vampire Lord's name, I dig it too! The von Carsteins have always been an awesome breed of blood drinker, and Alaric definitely fits. "The Umbral Slaughterer" is, to put it bluntly, just badass. He's a boss, and all know it. "The Shunned von Carstein" has got me interested, though...what's that refer to? Is he a bit of a black sheep among the rulers of Drakenhof? I love back stories!

Skratchington

No-One
11-08-2011, 01:44
yep, he's basically completely psychotic(i'm using Konrad's rules to represent him) and was too full of himself and his martial ability to be tolerated, so he was cast out of the Vampiric Court alongside his "wife"(another vampire, more magic inclined), but before being cast out, heavy armor and a snarling faced helm were nailed to his body, so he would live out his undeath forevermore adorned for war, since it is what he is so full of hubris about. Only once a year is he allowed to remove the helmet and drink blood, so when the night comes, an orgy of bloodshed follows in his wake as he slakes his thirst, again, part of his punishment. Whats worse, he's been relegated to only leading mortal armies, in his case, a Sylvanian bloodcult loyal to The Blood(this is represented by him being an ally to my Empire army i'm building to be used in Storm of Magic games) and the only undead to really follow him now are his "wife" and a group of ghouls(vampire and crypt ghouls, also allies to my Empire force)

The Umbral Slaughterer part comes from his armor, which is pitch black and said to writh with unholy darkness and the faces, still screaming silently, of those he has bested in combat, whether mortal or vampire alike. Since he is never seen without it, and is known for his skill in battle, slaughtering those he comes against, the title of Umbral Slaughterer stuck to him by those who fear him and his Sylvanian forces.

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 02:12
No-One, my friend, the exiled Count Alaric von Carstein, the Umbral Slaughterer sounds like a complete and utter terror! He's awesome! Thanks so much for sharing your background, I love it. Character background is, to me, one of the most amusing part of this little hobby of our's, and you've really and literally created a monster...in all the best ways, of course;)

I love the bit about his black, shadowy armour of the damned, and the snarling wolf helm...I'm totally picturing him right now, and he's looking completely fearsome. I think you're right on by using Konrad's rules for your battle-mad Vamp, it sounds just about right...and honestly, Alaric's story is even way cooler than Konrad's!

I'm definitely interested in the mortal army thing too. I haven't checked out Storm of Magic quite yet, as I'm just coming back off of a Warhammer Fantasy hiatus...and having come back to find these awesome new Vampire Counts releases was beyond a pleasant surprise, let me tell you! So stoked to be back! But yeah, the next thing on the agenda is to buy and read up on all the Storm of Magic stuff, which I'm extremely interested in. I've always loved the arcane aspects of Warhammer, and this looks right up my alley.

Thanks again for the inspiring background and insightful help, No-One! Expect to hear(and soon enough, actually SEE) more of Prince Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis, Fleshflayer, and God-Made-Flesh Eternal of the Ghouls of the Eastern Barrows!

Skratchington

Maoriboy007
11-08-2011, 05:18
Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis




Sounds pretty cool :)

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 15:33
Thanks very much, Maoriboy007! I think so too, I'm definitely loving it...Now I'm working on which Heroes I'm going to be including in the army with him, and, of course, their names as well. I'm particularly having a good time figuring out the name of the Necromancer I'm planning on including, seeing as he's basically just a debased and exiled Empire or Bretonnian practitioner of the Black Arts...I've always loved coming up with Empire-esque names. I'm thinking....Kaspar von...Something(haven't gotten that far yet), for the Necromancer.

Thanks again, Maoriboy007, I'm glad you like:)

EDIT: Got it. The Necromancer's name is Kaspar von Dietz. Done deal. Oh, and I'm quite aware this character naming thing going on doesn't have much of anything to do with "Tactics", but...it is good fun;) That said, I think I can tie some tactical discussion in here regarding Kaspar. Knowing just how much the Vampire Lord in question is going to cost, and that I'll have to be rather stingy when it comes to spending points on my Heroes, for the most part, I need a solid, effective, and points-efficient Necromancer build. I believe it was already mentioned that a nice, simple build for a Necro is;

Necromancer-
Extra Spell
Dispel Scroll

Looks pretty good, but does anyone have any other Necromancer builds they really like? Also, which Necromancy spells are best for a Necromancer, in your opinion?

Skratchington

GenerationTerrorist
11-08-2011, 17:20
Please post a full 2000pts-3000pts list for this. It'd be a great theme and one I wouldn't mind doing myself at some stage! Make sure you do a Painting Blog, too :-)

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 18:00
Absolutely, thanks so much, GenerationTerrorist! I plan on doing just that! I'm so stoked to get this army on the go(I've actually just ordered the first batch of models, so things should start happening soon!), and I'll definitely be posting a full army list soon. I've got a few more things to figure out, but it's definitely coming. I'm starting at the 2000 points level, but I'll most certainly be building it up to 3000 points as well. I'm glad you dig the theme too! The beauty of the Vampire Counts as they are now is that I can stick with this theme, and yet still add pretty much whatever I want with a little bit of "fluff" explaining. It's awesome, I'm loving it! You can most definitely look forward to an army list and a painting log very, very soon too, my friend:)

Okay, so I've been working out Kaspar, the Necromancer, and I think this is the build I'm going to go for. I think instead of making him a Zombie-raising machine, I'll make him a unit buff and support type dude. Of course, if anyone has any thoughts or ideas to the contrary, and thinks a Raise Dead type Necromancer would be more valuable and effective, by all means, let me know!

Here he is as it stands now;

Kaspar von Dietz
Necromancer-
(Invocation of Nehek)
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll

I think he's got some pretty decent utility, and from the looks of it, Vanhel's Danse Macabre is a very nice Necromancy spell. Seeing as my Vampire Lord will only be using the Invocation of Nehek from the Undead Lore(s), as he has Forbidden Lore(Beasts), I definitely wanted to make sure I could "danse" around a bit. And that's what this fellow is for. The Dispel Scroll is just a handy thing to have in pretty much every situation. He comes in at a little under 100 points, which is okay, as I'm definitely trying to save on points after having splurged on Prince Mordekhai, who comes in at almost 460 points(again, he's a little under that, and I believe it's considered not cool to post exact points values here...), so every point saved counts, and I'm pretty much trying to make every point count from here on out.

Speaking of points, for my Rare choices, I've got my sights set on a couple of expensive beasts, in the form of a Varghulf and a Terrorgheist. These two creatures alone will end up hitting the 400 point mark(potentially a little more, depending on any upgrades for the Terrorgheist). So...points are definitely becoming a premium at this point;)

So, at this point we're looking at:

Prince Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis
Vampire Lord-
+1 Magic Level (Level 3 Wizard)
Forbidden Lore (Beasts) + Invocation of Nehek
Summon Ghouls
Infinite Hatred
Ghoulkin
Trickster's Helm (Necrotic Flesh)
Crown of the Damned
Sword of Might (Infernal Strength)

Kaspar von Dietz
Necromancer-
(Invocation of Nehek)
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll

Cairn Wraith (Hero)

Nightfang, Rassad Ibn Falahad, the Prowler of Hunger Wood, Rassad the Night's Fang
Varghulf

Terrorgheist

Current Total- 1010 points (without potential upgrades for the Terrorgheist taken into consideration yet)

So, that's about half of my 2000 point list figured out already...which is crazy to me! But, to be fair, there's some heavy hitters in there in the form of the Varghulf and the Terrorghiest(both of which are due for naming, along with the Cairn Wraith Hero, I might add!), a Lord choice I really love, and a pretty solid utility Hero(I think, anyway...let me know about the Necromancer if you think he's good, or if he needs some changing in any way!)...so things are looking good, I think!

As always, please let me know what you think, and where I should go from here. Thanks!


Skratchington

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 19:10
Also, I might as well add another Hero choice I plan on adding too, to the above army list as it stands. I love the new Cairn Wraith model, it's just perfect, and has some very cool different head options and such. I want at least one Wraith Hero in the army, and even though I don't yet have my copy of White Dwarf 379 (here in Canada, anyway) with the new Vampire Counts army list entries and such, I have a pretty good idea of what he costs.

So, I've edited the above "work in progress" army list to include the Cairn Wraith Hero, and also the current points total to take into account his points cost. I think he's a really decent choice for the points cost, and can add some nastiness to a unit. Chill Grasp seems like it could be a nice utility ability as well...love it.

Skratchington

No-One
11-08-2011, 19:12
Varghulf = Rassad Ibn Falahad, Prowler of the Necropolis. He was a travelling merchant, greedy to the extreme, from Araby. His greed for gold became a greed for blood, leading to his devolvement into his current form.

just an idea :D

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 19:24
No-One, my friend, you are AWESOME at this! I dig it a lot, thank you! I was initially thinking of more of an honourific for him, like...Nightfang(I know, that's a little on the simple side;)), but I really think adding a more...mortal, or once-mortal, background and name to him is a cool touch. Of course, I could do something like this;

Nightfang, Rassad Ibn Falahad, the Prowler of Hunger Wood...something like that. It gives him a more...currently "suitable" name, considering his current condition, and also his true name and a little history. I've come up with the idea that the Black Necropolis is an ancient tomb complex hidden deep in, and under, Hunger Wood. Hunger Wood happens to have a few Ghoul tribes calling it home, and I figure the Black Necropolis is Mordekhai's base of operations there, and where he holds court over the Ghoul clans that venerate and serve him. So, Rassad the Nightfang is a beast that inhabits the Hunger Wood, in an area that happens to be in the same area as the Black Necropolis.

I love it! Thanks, No-One! What do you think of my Necromancer's name, by the way? It just came to me, and I really dig it.

Edit: Edited the above WIP army list to include the Varghulf's new name:)

Skratchington

No-One
11-08-2011, 19:30
definitely like the name, you planning on using a stock necromancer or are you going to go more for something like a converted Empire model?

i plan on doing a fair amount of naming to my stuff in my army as well, though mostly it will be units themselves, not the actual individuals, though my mages, arch-lector and warpriest, and also the pegasus knight will all have individual backgrounds on how they came to be in Alaric von Carstein's Sylvanian force, and the conversion work will be a fun thing to go about pulling off

i look forward to seeing your army come into fruition, especially when you get a plog up over in Fantasy, i've got mine just starting and i'm adding to it slowly but surely, who knows, maybe Alaric and Mordekhai may be allies in the future

Skratchington
11-08-2011, 19:40
For sure, No-One, Alaric and Mordekhai would make quite the terrifying pair...and I'm thinking that Alaric, as an outcast of the vaunted von Carstein family himself, would even suffer Mordekhai's bestial presence, seeing as they seem to have a lot in common, in terms of hobbies and...views of the mortal world;)

For sure, my friend, I'm totally planning on getting a painting log set up for my Vamps right away. I've got the necessary models ordered, and am ready to dive in head first! I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I set up the plog in the Fantasy painting section here, and I'm going to check your's out directly after finishing this post!

As for the Necromancer, I'm definitely using the awesome new plastic Necromancer model that came out around the time of Storm of Magic. I love that model! Not only that, his name, to me anyway, definitely fits the way that mini looks...like a wretched, cast-out dark wizard, ragged, and yet obviously cunning and well-versed in the Dark Art. He looks like just the sort that would be in the thrall of a beast like Mordekhai, hoping to learn more of the necromantic arts, and possibly even one day earn the Blood Kiss...if the Lord of the Black Necropolis finds him useful for that long, of course:)

Thanks again, No-One, I'm off to check out the beginnings of your plog!

Skratchington

Maoriboy007
11-08-2011, 21:34
Let us know how you get on, an overview with some highlights if nothing else.
Another handy hint is that the toughness buff from lore of beasts is a good way of negating high strength Killing Blows (major concern for VC). Things like assassins Destroyer of eternities or executioners wound you on 4s & 5s as well and can gain extra killing blows on a re-roll.

Skratchington
12-08-2011, 02:21
Thanks very much, Maoriboy007! I definitely plan to basically saturate Warseer with this army;) I'm planning a painting log, battle reports, army list(s) discussion and thoughts, and even general opinions and ramblings regarding the forces of Mordekhai...you won't be disappointed or lacking for info and updates regarding my exploits here, my friend!

Also, thanks for the tip regarding the Toughness buff provided by the Lore of Beasts...I'm really thinking that it was an excellent decision to give Mordekhai the Forbidden Lore(Beasts) Vampiric power...the more I dig into it, the more I really, really like his build as a whole, and to think I was having such a hard time coming up with a Vampire Lord build that really suited me. Honestly, his massive points cost is seeming less and less outrageous and problematic to me too...I wouldn't have him any other way now, I'm totally pleased with Prince Mordekhai....very, very much! The Lore of Beasts is going to serve him so well...

Thanks again for the reply, Maoriboy007! For the moment, I'm going to be using this very thread as a general(mostly tactical, with some added fun) discussion place for my army, so by all means stick around and check back. In fact, I've got some thoughts and questions right now, that have been giving me some trouble recently, and I definitely need some help. Post regarding said issue(s) incoming...

Skratchington

Skratchington
12-08-2011, 02:44
Okay, so if you've been following this thread, you'll know where I'm at in terms of this army list currently. I'm working on the initial 2000 point core of it, and I'm...well, making progress. If I put as much effort into tactical research and "theoryhammer", as I did into creating names and background for the important characters and creatures in the army, I'd be doing just fine, I'm sure;) Unfortunately, that's just not how I roll...

What's currently giving me trouble is figuring out the units, the true backbone, of this army. I've got most of the characters and monsters and such sorted out, but I'm still lacking some solid Core and Specials. This is most definitely where I need some help. To begin with, I'll restate what I've included in the 2000 point army thus far, so you can see what we're working with, and hopefully what you think the army could use for Core/Special infantry blocks, cavalry, etc.
(Oh, and also, you may noticed I've re-worked some of the character/monster names, or even added new ones. Again, they're by no means all done, but they're where I'm at currently...opinions on these are always welcome too!)

Here's where the 2000 point army stands now:

Prince Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis
Vampire Lord-
+1 Magic Level (Level 3 Wizard)
Forbidden Lore (Beasts) + Invocation of Nehek
Summon Ghouls
Infinite Hatred
Ghoulkin
Trickster's Helm (Necrotic Flesh)
Crown of the Damned
Sword of Might (Infernal Strength)

Kaspar von Dietz
Necromancer-
(Invocation of Nehek)
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll

Hjengar the Damned, Poltergeist of the Vale of Darkness
Cairn Wraith (Hero)

Lucius the Beast, Nightfiend
Varghulf

Malethrax
Terrorgeist

Current Total-1010 points (not taking into account any potential upgrades for the Terrorgeist at this point)

So, basically I've eaten dessert first here, and started with the cool stuff, which has come in at a pretty hefty amount of points. From here on out, pretty much every single point for this army has to be efficiently spent, to say the least.

What I need if your help in figuring out how best to fill out my Core requirements effectively and efficiently, and also what I can do for Specials. I'd like a nice, nasty unit of Great Weapon-armed Grave Guard fit in there for some added heavy hitting, if at all possible. Also, for Core, Crypt Ghouls are the main choice for me, in terms of theme, cool models, effectiveness...basically the whole nine yards. Prince Mordekhai is, after all, a Ghoul King, so...Ghouls just make sense. That said, I wouldn't at all mind a nice block of Skeleton Warriors as well...in fact, I'd really like to be able to include at least one.

So, here is my current situation, and I desperately need some help in fleshing(so to speak...) this army out. I've gotten some amazing help here thus far, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you all have to say regarding this! Thanks!

Edit: Edited for the name of the Cairn Wraith Hero, Hjengar the Damned, Poltergeist of the Vale of Darkness. Love it!

Skratchington

Pyriel
12-08-2011, 05:54
... i dont know about skeletons... Crypt ghouls are so much better.

if you want skeletons, maybe you should try out a block of Graveguard. from a technical point of view, they are skeletons, only better equipped :P

thats actualy my proposal for the rest of the points:
one unit of 20-30 graveguard (can easily put some Heroes on foot there for protection; very useful) and then ghoul-spam.

No-One
12-08-2011, 06:00
no idea if your skills are up for it, but you could always convert ghouls in armor and weapons and have them be some kind of Crypt Warghouls or something? cant think of a good name for them at the moment

Necropolis Sentinels? not sure, sounds almost too tomb king-ish for me, i'll give it some thought

Demoulius
12-08-2011, 12:27
Very interesting topic :)

For core id stick to ghouls as it fits your army (and general's) fluff. They're also fierce with 2 poisend(sp) attacks a piece. Nothing to sniff at ;)

If you want to include the graveguard perhaps make them the necromancer (oops sorry, Kaspar von Dietz :D ) his bunker? Perhaps add to his fluff that he resurrected those before the blood lord found him? :)

As for a name for the cairnn wraith... How about Hjengar the damned. Poltergeist of the forgetten ruins?

rodmillard
12-08-2011, 20:55
Looks pretty good, but does anyone have any other Necromancer builds they really like? Also, which Necromancy spells are best for a Necromancer, in your opinion?


I double up my necromancers: one using the build you've used for Kaspar, and one with IoN, Raise Dead, and the Sceptre de Noirot (in larger games where I have the points I give them both all 3 necromancy spells) although I can see that with the wraith as your second hero you're going to be pressed for points.

I am loving reading the fluff as it develops, BTW. You've inspired me to start writing some for my own VCs...

tw1386
12-08-2011, 21:41
I actually just got done reading The Knights of Brettonia books, and in the story Questing Knight the entire story is devoted to this very similar theme pretty much.

The Knight comes across this clan of ghouls who were once peasants in Quenelles (the cursed realm of Brettonia, kinda like Sylvania for the empire). They actually worshipped a Vargulf who was leading a "rebellion" of sorts against the Vampire Lord who reigned there. It was quite an interesting story. I believe they called their leader The Great Father, or something along those lines.

After I read this I really thought of doing this with my army and trying to come up with ways to convert the use of Gravegaurd into the army so they aren't so "royal". Like really tough armored ghouls, and the like. I think it could easly be done if the models could be found.

Skratchington
13-08-2011, 01:07
This is awesome, thanks so much for all the great replies and discussion, everyone! I absolutely love all the ideas I'm getting here. Not only that, but I've now got the start of a name for my Cairn Wraith, thanks to Demoulius. Hjengar the Damned, Poltergeist of the...well, I'll work on that part, but I absolutely love it, thank you so much! I was trying to figure out an "ancient" sounding name, like a pre-Empire style human name, much as a Wraith would have had in his mortal life, and your idea fits the bill perfectly, thanks! I'll edit the above list to include it!

I actually really like Necropolis Sentinels, No-One! I also really dig the idea that perhaps Kaspar von Dietz raised them and dominated them himself as his own personal rtetinue before, or during, his service to Prince Mordekhai. This is truly working out perfectly!

I'm also really glad that you're all enjoying the development and background of the force as it's coming along! It's one of the most enjoyable aspects of this entire hobby for me, and if a little thought is put into it(and you have a little help from your friends, as here!), it really takes on a life of its' own!

In other news, I've figured out the next additions to the force, in major part due to what all of you guys have been saying and suggesting. Here we go:

30 Crypt Ghouls-
Crypt Ghast

30 Crypt Ghouls-
Crypt Ghast

Crypt Sentinels of the Black Necropolis
19 Grave Guard-
Seneschal
Musician
Standard Bearer
Great Weapons

Now, of course I've got to come up with names and such for these units, and I'm still a (literally) a few points below the 500 point minimum requirement for Core units for an army of this size...but it's coming:)

With the units added above, I've still got some points left to play around with, and I was thinking I'd really like to add a Wight King Battle Standard Bearer...and perhaps even a Corpse Cart if I can squeeze it in somehow. I've got a good few details to work out, but it's definitely coming, right? What do you all think?

Again, thanks so much for all of your amazing replies, thoughts, suggestions, and overall interest and support in this army. It's really only coming along so well and taking on a life of its' own thanks in part to all of your help, and I can't thank you enough! This is going to be awesome, guys, and there's so much more to come! Let's hear what you think!

Edit: Cairn Wraith Hero's name edited in the above WIP list to reflect his awesome new title...which, is still somewhat a work in progress itself..but it's getting there! Thanks again!

Edit II: Got it. Hjengar the Damned, Poltergeist of the Vale of Darkness, summoned and enthralled by Prince Mordekhai's dark call.

Skratchington

No-One
13-08-2011, 01:11
as an alternate name, you could go with Necropolis Wardens instead?

Skratchington
13-08-2011, 01:39
Love it too, No-One! How about...Crypt Wardens/Sentinels of the Black Necropolis. That would make a pretty cool unit name, I think. I think I kind of dig "Sentinels" slightly more than "Wardens" for some obscure reason.

So, the Grave Guard, discovered, raised, and dominated by Mordekhai's thrall Necromancer, Kaspar von Dietz, are known as the Crypt Sentinels of the Black Necropolis...or Crypt Sentinels, for short;)

Thanks, No-One!

Skratchington

Skratchington
14-08-2011, 22:32
Hey guys, it's been one busy, crazy weekend, but every now and then I've had a few minutes to myself, and I've been able to write up a finished, fleshed out list. I've only got a few minutes here, but here it is. I can't wait to see what you all think of it, and I'll be back in a while to check it out! Let me know what you think of it all(composition, names, anything!)...

Prince Mordekhai, Blood Lord of the Black Necropolis
Vampire Lord-
+1 Magic Level (Level 3 Wizard)
Forbidden Lore (Beasts)
Summon Ghouls
Infinite Hatred
Ghoulkin
Trickster's Helm (Necrotic Flesh)
Crown of the Damned
Sword of Might (Infernal Strength)

Kaspar von Dietz, the Corpsemaster
Necromancer-
(Invocation of Nehek)
Extra Spell (Vanhel's Danse Macabre)
Dispel Scroll
Ruby Ring of Ruin

Hjengar the Damned, Poltergeist of the Dread Vale
Cairn Wraith

Lord Vorach, King of the Vangals
Wight King-
Battle Standard Bearer
Royal Standard of Strigos

Vashnag's Boneclaws
31 Crypt Ghouls-
Crypt Ghast, Vashnag Bonegnawer

Dietrich's Flesheaters
30 Crypt Ghouls-
Crypt Ghast, Dietrich the Depraved

Gravehounds
6 Dire Wolves

Crypt Sentinels of the Black Necropolis
19 Grave Guard-
Seneschal, Skathor the Stygian
Musician
Standard Bearer
Great Weapons

Lucius the Beast, Nightfiend
Varghulf

Malethrax
Terrorgeist

TOTAL-1999pts.

Skratchington

Jack of Blades
15-08-2011, 02:09
Love it too, No-One! How about...Crypt Wardens/Sentinels of the Black Necropolis. That would make a pretty cool unit name, I think. I think I kind of dig "Sentinels" slightly more than "Wardens" for some obscure reason.

Wow man, how much more can you honey-coat the simple words ''I prefer Sentinels to Wardens''? :p now on to reading your army list...
Me I wouldn't name my ghouls or dire wolves - they are lowly, expendable creatures - nor would I give my cairn wraiths or wight kings names longer than one or two words. This will depend on how much you want the cairn wraith/wight king to cling onto its past life. I'd either rename the cairn wraith into Hjengar the Damned or find some way of mixing the other words together into a simple name, like Valebane (just an example). The wight king either gets a similar simple name or just Lord/King/Prince/Add Title Here Vorach.

The reason for this is that it's not believable for them to have such long, elaborate names imo - they're wraiths and skeletons, not vampires. You can also shorten Lucius the Beast, Nightfiend into just Lucius the Nightfiend or either Lucius or Nightfiend. As well as Kaspar von Dietz, the Corpsemaster into either Kaspar, Kaspar von Dietz, Kaspar the Corpsemaster or The Corpsemaster (if you want a lowly necromancer). But a mere necromancer with such a title? he must be high in your lord's favour indeed; I can let that name pass but it's still quite elaborate for a necromancer.

This is just a suggestion, feel free to disregard it (and you don't need to be so overly polite about it :p) - just offering my opinion ;)

Skratchington
15-08-2011, 02:29
LOL, that actually made me chuckle a little bit, Jack of Blades, thanks!;) Just in my own defense, I'm not an overly bubbly, super polite and silver-tongued, gracious person...I AM pretty passionate and definitely just into names and background behind characters in my army. So yeah, I suppose my enthusiasm may have come off as..."honey-coating", but yeah....not so much, I'm just into it.

As for your suggestions, I definitely see what you're saying, and I think I tend to agree. Pretty much everyone has quite a title attached to them, and that could probably very much be cut down upon. I think what happened is this; I have a little book I jot down ideas, army lists, names(many, many names) and associated background in as it comes to me. I end up with basic names for characters and such, and then end up having little titles and honourifics associated with them too, and I pretty much ended up just typing them here along with the basic names, for whatever reason. Believe it or not, there's at least a couple more additional titles for each character, that in some way describes or alludes to the character's background or style that aren't typed here or anywhere at this point...they exist only in my little "random idea book".

So you're right on, and I agree. I could likely tone down the mad titles for all the characters when it comes down to it, and the list is put down in its' finished form. Sometimes it's true what they say, and "less is most definitely more";)

Thanks for the reply, Jack of Blades!

Skratchington

mistrmoon
15-08-2011, 06:10
Is he going to try and get in combat or just assist your amry.
I would recomend him avoiding combat, till late in the game.
Give him


Vampire Lord support (1#, 450 pts)
1 Vampire Lord, 450 pts (Vampire; Level 3 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Undead)
1 Dragonhelm
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Crown of the Damned
1 Helm of Commandment
1 Aura of Dark Majesty
1 Avatar of Death (Shield)
1 Ghoulkin
1 0. Invocation of Nehek


Your vampire....is wearing 3 hats...I'm so impressed right now.

rodmillard
16-08-2011, 18:52
Your vampire....is wearing 3 hats...I'm so impressed right now.

Wow, conversion opportunity!

Maoriboy007
16-08-2011, 21:30
Your vampire....is wearing 3 hats...I'm so impressed right now.

"Minion! Fetch me some nails and the superglue!"

sulla
16-08-2011, 22:32
Talk about his insecurity over a little male pattern baldness.

No-One
17-08-2011, 19:42
You vamp Skratchington hahaha: Prince Mordekhai (http://whoisthe****ingmaster.com/media/images/3hats.jpg)

other than that, i'm definitely looking forward to seeing your plog when you get it up and running, i believe its going to come along great. are you planning on doing the GraveGuard as their standard models or are you going to ghoul them up somewhat?