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Archibald_TK
09-08-2011, 21:21
Well I still don't see any thread about it (but I may suck at reading the boards) so I may as well break the silence: Daemons FAQ v1.1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1920634a_Chaos_Daemons_FAQ_Version_1_1.pdf)

Kind of nice to have an update just when the new Battleforce is about to be released. A lot of question about the Changeling ability answered which makes sense as it will be rereleased in Finecast that month.

Ravenous
09-08-2011, 21:29
Well that seemed pointless, other then saying things that regen dont add to the tally, and that the changling can use psychic powers of units that fail glamour.

Maybe they should answer things like whether GK summoning is teleportation or not.

gwarsh41
09-08-2011, 21:34
Well I still don't see any thread about it (but I may suck at reading the boards) so I may as well break the silence: Daemons FAQ v1.1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1920634a_Chaos_Daemons_FAQ_Version_1_1.pdf)

Kind of nice to have an update just when the new Battleforce is about to be released. A lot of question about the Changeling ability answered which makes sense as it will be rereleased in Finecast that month.

I dont think many people are going to jump on the daemon bandwagon because of the battleforce. I am really underwhelmed by it. a daemon prince or blood crushers would have fit really nicely into a battle force.

Vedar
09-08-2011, 21:57
Yup people will continue to not use Chaos Daemons. Most people will continue to almost never see them in 40K, unless you are a glutton for punishment and like the models, like me.

Nurgling Chieftain
09-08-2011, 22:38
I'm glad they finally answered the basic questions about the Changeling, even though it's kind of a "duh" answer, but it wasn't written clearly that way.

ihavetoomuchminis
09-08-2011, 22:56
I was hoping for an update in the rules, a la powerscroll. But no. So it's clear my daemons still are a showcase army, not a playable one.

And even they have the nerve to write "AMENDMENTS: NONE". With this and the GK codex, i think that GW is laughing at daemon players, telling us "aaaah...you chose the wrong army. Better luck next time, and thanks for your money"

DJ3
09-08-2011, 23:34
Nothing of interest in there, looks like they just did it to bring it up to date with the new "1.1" FAQ style.

MarkDawg
10-08-2011, 05:50
Deamons are not that bad man way better than a lot of armies. It's not like they are at Nid status yet.

Silent_Moebius
10-08-2011, 06:02
"aaaah...you chose the wrong army. Better luck next time, and thanks for your money"


Deamons are not that bad man way better than a lot of armies. It's not like they are at Nid status yet.

This is true. "Deamonhunter" should have been called "Tyranid Hunters"

Xyon
10-08-2011, 11:09
people not use daemons? a local guy here keeps wining tournaments with them, or at least placing very high with them.

Kroot Lord
10-08-2011, 18:23
people not use daemons? a local guy here keeps wining tournaments with them, or at least placing very high with them.

Xyon, meet the internet where Tyranids and Daemons suck, everybody uses IG leafblower lists, Nob Bikers and two dozen Longfangs.

;)

Archibald_TK
10-08-2011, 19:02
Xyon, meet the internet where Tyranids and Daemons suck, everybody uses IG leafblower lists, Nob Bikers and two dozen Longfangs.

;)
I know some SW players who would be quite happy if they could field two dozen Longfangs! :p
But more seriously if only on the Internet do people field max Longfangs yet all of the SW players I know spam them, does that mean they are not real humans but AI escaped from the Internet? Are they Netlists that were worshiped so much that they started to gain consciousness, took physical form and traveled the realm of men? The Internet is indeed a place of mystery.

GreySeerZ
11-08-2011, 15:56
Rofl, yea, it truly is the interwebs. My best friend plays Daemons, and has come in 2nd, 3rd and 5th in 3 local tournaments in the past year. Sure, there are only certain builds that can be even remotely successful and have to be played with a cool tactical head, but that's like most armies. Honestly most opponents lose to him because they build lists based off the interwebs where "You'll never face a daemon army competitively!" Surprisingly his lists do very well against some of the cheesier builds out there.

That said, Daemons still rock fantasy, so I don't see their sales suffering anytime soon. If they dominated both systems, why would anyone play anything else (well besides space marines, stupid marine doo doo heads). The box contents are a little spread, but I've seen good fantasy lists with all of those units, tailoring the box towards the system the army performs better in makes a lot of sense to me.

druchii
11-08-2011, 18:15
You can tell this is a thread about demons because about four posts into it people start talking about Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Tyranids.

d

Rated_lexxx
11-08-2011, 20:09
I am at work can someone tell me what is the new change is?

DJ3
11-08-2011, 20:29
I am at work can someone tell me what is the new change is?

Essentially nothing, which is why the thread is full of people talking about other things.

None of the new FAQ entries are even remotely different than the way everyone was already playing things.

Archibald_TK
11-08-2011, 20:31
You can tell this is a thread about demons because about four posts into it people start talking about Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Tyranids.
Then I suppose it was a good idea that I stopped myself from putting a Tyranid comment in the opening post!


I am at work can someone tell me what is the new change is?
Basically they put a big empty "amendment" section in red so that players know that there could have been something written inside it... there could have been...

ihavetoomuchminis
11-08-2011, 21:28
Basically they put a big empty "amendment" section in red so that players know that there could have been something written inside it... there could have been...

haha...so true..... they could have put nothing at all, and i'll be more happy. With that "NONE", it's just like they are telling us "we know you want some amendments, but we are GW, we are never wrong, so here you have your amendments, stop asking for them (evil laughs)"

druchii
11-08-2011, 23:47
haha...so true..... they could have put nothing at all, and i'll be more happy. With that "NONE", it's just like they are telling us "we know you want some amendments, but we are GW, we are never wrong, so here you have your amendments, stop asking for them (evil laughs)"

We were lucky. The demon book was relatively free of random rules ambiguity and conundrums like a lot of the newer books. This is expressed in our FAQ where it seems like some game developer has been reviewing warseer message boards, shoring up his FAQ with random, dumb questions people post (I TOLD you you can't pavane a unit and then breath it!). Better than stuff like SW FAQ or the GK book.

d

jspyd3rx
12-08-2011, 00:04
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.

Nurgling Chieftain
12-08-2011, 00:23
40K juggernaut riders haven't been cavalry for as long as I've been playing (3rd ed+). I don't see why they'd get a burst of speed now. They're already among the best things in the codex.

shabbadoo
12-08-2011, 05:22
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.
For something intended to be a big, tough, strong, lumbering behemoth, and that the Cavalry rules are really all about giving speed to things that should have it, Bloodcrushers not being cavalry makes perfect sense. They never have been about speed, and never should be.

ihavetoomuchminis
12-08-2011, 07:49
I was not thinking in that amendment. I'm happy with Bloodcrushers (very happy, indeed).

It's not the place to talk about that, but what we really need is a codex review, if not a new codex. Improved rules, even some rule CHANGES, points adjustments... i'll send them some suggestions i have.

Adramalech
12-08-2011, 09:09
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.

Cavalry ride horses, steeds of slaanesh and other, speedy equine creatures...

Cavalry DO NOT ride MC's... and yes, a juggernaut SHOULD be considered an MC. It's a GIANT, METAL RHINO WITH FANGS.

Valek
12-08-2011, 11:40
tbh, thunderwolves are cavalry, so should crushers be...

fluffymcfluff
12-08-2011, 11:52
I love my bloodcrushers, but in no way should they be calvary, the codex even says this. They are after all covered with armor plates and part machine, would be hard to believe that they could keep up with fleshhounds or seekers.

GreySeerZ
12-08-2011, 12:43
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.

Aesthetically yes, it is very odd that they are not, stat-wise, no, they would be extremely overpowered with a 12" range. Especially the fate-crusher build. With this build, and wound allocation, most crushers will survive the 2 turns of shooting usually required to close the gap and charge. With a 12" charge they would only have to sit one turn before charging. In combat they decimate pretty much everything besides giant hordes. The 2 turns of shooting are necessary to make the unit balanced. You would either need to raise their points, or lower their effectiveness, either of which would cause people to complain twice as much as them not being cavalry now.

Rated_lexxx
12-08-2011, 17:47
Essentially nothing, which is why the thread is full of people talking about other things.

None of the new FAQ entries are even remotely different than the way everyone was already playing things.

oh good...I will continue to watch paint dry now...or watch masterpiece theater. Which seems less boring

druchii
12-08-2011, 17:48
Aesthetically yes, it is very odd that they are not, stat-wise, no, they would be extremely overpowered with a 12" range. Especially the fate-crusher build. With this build, and wound allocation, most crushers will survive the 2 turns of shooting usually required to close the gap and charge. With a 12" charge they would only have to sit one turn before charging. In combat they decimate pretty much everything besides giant hordes. The 2 turns of shooting are necessary to make the unit balanced. You would either need to raise their points, or lower their effectiveness, either of which would cause people to complain twice as much as them not being cavalry now.

No one complains about bloodcrushers, not really. I mean at least no demon players do. We love our big, metally buggers. They're just fine the way they are. Cavalry would be ridiculous and break one of my favorite units in the game.

Oh and when people exclaim "they're THAT good for 40pts?!" I can say "at least they're not cavalry..."

d

Azhrarn
12-08-2011, 19:08
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.

Making them Cavalry would give them Fleet (as that's part of the Cavalry rules), Bloodcrushers really shouldn't have Fleet it makes them far to agile, which is why they're counted as Infantry instead.
They're also a bit too bulky and slow to get that 12" charge.

Rated_lexxx
12-08-2011, 20:07
Making them Cavalry would give them Fleet (as that's part of the Cavalry rules), Bloodcrushers really shouldn't have Fleet it makes them far to agile, which is why they're counted as Infantry instead.
They're also a bit too bulky and slow to get that 12" charge.

bingo. This is the main reason they don't have cavalry because of fleet. It makes me shiver just thinking about blood crushers with fleet

Marauderk
12-08-2011, 20:11
Man you mean my daemons suck.... Damnit i guess i need to tell them cause they do pretty well for me,

Rated_lexxx
12-08-2011, 20:16
Man you mean my daemons suck.... Damnit i guess i need to tell them cause they do pretty well for me,

By the law of the internet your suppose to not play demons and only play SW, BA, or IG or playing 40k wrong

:P :P

jspyd3rx
12-08-2011, 22:09
Oh, I know they rock. Just wanting to really put the fear of daemons in my opponents.

Draconis
13-08-2011, 00:17
Getting something that big and heavy charging means they will have a lot of forward momentum and run very fast. They should have the 12" charge of calvary but not the fleet.

ihavetoomuchminis
13-08-2011, 10:31
I've seen something in the GW webpage that has worried me. They've put the daemon news, and as usual, some related products. well....only ONE related product. THe Daemons Fantasy army book, but no the Daemons 40k codex....

What does it mean?

terradax
13-08-2011, 11:21
All that needs amending is that Bloodcrushers be cavalry. It just seems wrong that they are not.

If this was Facebook, I would have pressed like ^^
Sure, Bloodcrushers are tough, but they need to be a bit faster. If not make them cavalry, at least give them fleet!

Zenebatos
18-08-2011, 11:13
Yup Juggers maybe slower then regular cavalry but when you see a Rhinoceros run at a speed of 50-60Km/ph to smash into something,you could gues that the Juggers could have some more impact on the charge,like Fleet and +1D3 A on the charge.

Inquisitor Kallus
18-08-2011, 13:26
Bit OTT there Zenebatos. Personally id give them something like ..

'Thunderous Charge' The units gets a 12" charge move.

I believe they should be slightly more powerful, but not as quick as TWC, because theyre big metal rhino like daemons, dedicated to Khorne..

Its true Rhinos can move quickly, but only when charging, otherwise they move fairly slowly.

WokeUpDead
18-08-2011, 14:13
yeah.. and a 2++ and rear-facing gun, read: lightning of it's **** ;D

kidding, naturally. they are fine as they are. I'd be okay with them being cav, but then points had to go up. way up ;)

Dr Morbius
18-08-2011, 14:26
I definitly don't want them to become cavalery. The look on the face of mates when I charge them up a ladder into a 2nd storey ruin is priceless. :D

"Wait. how did they come up there?"
"Well, they are infantry."

Soupcat
19-08-2011, 21:48
Yeah speed wise they are fine, but I would give my left nut to have grenades of some sort

Zenebatos
06-09-2011, 03:21
Bit OTT there Zenebatos. Personally id give them something like ..

'Thunderous Charge' The units gets a 12" charge move.

I believe they should be slightly more powerful, but not as quick as TWC, because theyre big metal rhino like daemons, dedicated to Khorne..

Its true Rhinos can move quickly, but only when charging, otherwise they move fairly slowly.

Well when i look in the old RoC book Juggers had a Movement Stat of 7,While Hounds had 10 and Infantry models 4.

So they where faster then Infantry,but slower then true cavalery.

So a Fleet or even a 10"move wouldn't hurt this muchwhen you look at it.

solkan
06-09-2011, 05:21
The Aura of Decay answer is weird. You'd think it would be easier at some point to just rewrite to say something like

"This weapon can be fired while locked in close combat. This weapon automatically targets and hits every (visible?) enemy unit within X", even if that unit is locked in close combat. For each of those units, for each non-vehicle model in that unit within X" roll a die. On a Y+ the unit takes a wound, with cover and armor saves allowed."

Grimtuff
06-09-2011, 08:03
tbh, thunderwolves are cavalry, so should crushers be...

And in being so TWC cannot climb stairs nor enter buildings. Bloodcrushers can. :evilgrin:

Lord Zarkov
06-09-2011, 09:52
And in being so TWC cannot climb stairs nor enter buildings. Bloodcrushers can. :evilgrin:

Clearly what happens is the Bloodletter unsummons his juggernaught, climbs up the stairs, and then summons it again.

With the words
"Juggernaught I choose you!"
:p

Draconis
06-09-2011, 10:17
Im thinking more along the lines of dragonball and that they just pop the pill and in a puff of smoke their ride shows up.

BUt yeah, the thing is they shoudnt be able to climb stairs. So thats not a reason to leave them like they are.

Grimtuff
06-09-2011, 10:20
Im thinking more along the lines of dragonball and that they just pop the pill and in a puff of smoke their ride shows up.

BUt yeah, the thing is they shoudnt be able to climb stairs. So thats not a reason to leave them like they are.

Why not? They're Daemons. Same goes for Khornate chariots. I like to think of the one my Skulltaker is mounted on is driving vertically up the wall. Nothing can escape Khorne's wrath. :evilgrin:

druchii
06-09-2011, 17:48
Why not? They're Daemons. Same goes for Khornate chariots. I like to think of the one my Skulltaker is mounted on is driving vertically up the wall. Nothing can escape Khorne's wrath. :evilgrin:

I always figured mine just bulldozed through walls, sort of like a very mean, angry Koolaid man.

d

LonelyPath
06-09-2011, 19:31
Why not? They're Daemons. Same goes for Khornate chariots. I like to think of the one my Skulltaker is mounted on is driving vertically up the wall. Nothing can escape Khorne's wrath. :evilgrin:

That's how I see them doing it as well. They are not inhibited by the laws of physics, so they ride wherever they please :D

Fable
06-09-2011, 20:57
I always figured mine just bulldozed through walls, sort of like a very mean, angry Koolaid man.

d

Yeah, I imagined them in a very similar way, something like this: http://www.jonvermilyea.com/ongoing/koolaid-comic/

Nurgling Chieftain
06-09-2011, 21:03
Meanwhile, the flesh hounds are completely stymied by an ordinary staircase. :D

Konovalev
07-09-2011, 15:50
Karanak, he can hunt you across space and time but stairs are the ultimate barrier. Karanak must have nightmares of M. C. Eschers painting, Relativity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escher%27s_Relativity.jpg

ihavetoomuchminis
07-09-2011, 16:55
Karanak, he can hunt you across space and time but stairs are the ultimate barrier. Karanak must have nightmares of M. C. Eschers painting, Relativity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escher%27s_Relativity.jpg

I'm sure that's the place where khorne puts karanak to punish him when he does something wrong.

Inquisitor Kallus
08-09-2011, 08:24
Karanak, he can hunt you across space and time but stairs are the ultimate barrier. Karanak must have nightmares of M. C. Eschers painting, Relativity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escher%27s_Relativity.jpg

"Under the stairs, and think about what you've done..."

Oakwolf
08-09-2011, 15:32
Still waiting for my slaaneshi legion to do more than stand pretty.

Sure, some builds from the book are viable, but not my army :p

ArtificerArmour
09-09-2011, 09:32
Every power gets a highlight: Khorne have power weapons, tzeentch shoots, nurgle resilient, slaanesh...get grenades.

druchii
09-09-2011, 16:10
Every power gets a highlight: Khorne have power weapons, tzeentch shoots, nurgle resilient, slaanesh...get grenades.

And super high Initiative :P
And rending.
And usually fleet...

d

Draconis
09-09-2011, 23:43
lol, yeah, poor poor slaanesh.

insan0
10-09-2011, 04:34
Let this thread die already.

Draconis
10-09-2011, 05:27
Thanks for your useless input. Next.

Darnok
10-09-2011, 06:11
Since it became a general Daemons discussion: off to 40K General.


Darnok [=I=]