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JingoJackson
09-08-2011, 22:55
I've got 25 Orc Arrers, I'm wondering how to play them?

A mob of 25, 5x5 or split into two smaller mobs of 12, 2x6, and hold back near war machines. If I have a mob of 25, should I take a boss, musician and standard and use them in combat.

If your a O&G player, how do you play Arrers, do you take Arrers if you have them?

Thanks

Tuttivillus
09-08-2011, 23:07
a mob with fc would be fun, especially since you have volley fire and move and fire rules for bows. its 19 shots in a roud and nice fighty unit, isn't it?

JingoJackson
09-08-2011, 23:34
It's my smallest unit of Orcs. With full command it's 180pts. I've not used Arrers before, ballistic skill of 3 I don't they'll hit much. Fighty, yes, they have choppas.
Sorry for showing my ignorance, 19 volley, how from 25?

TMATK
09-08-2011, 23:48
It's my smallest unit of Orcs. With full command it's 180pts. I've not used Arrers before, ballistic skill of 3 I don't they'll hit much. Fighty, yes, they have choppas.
Sorry for showing my ignorance, 19 volley, how from 25?

Assuming they are 5 wide, you get 10 shots from the front 2 ranks and 9 shots from the back 3 ranks. Volley fire lets half the models in each of the back ranks fire, as long as the unit does not move.

Cragum
09-08-2011, 23:51
see i run my arrers in a single rank 10 orc formation. This allows the unit to be used as a shield while moving up the battlefield. i find it easier to rank them up when they arent behind each other :D

The true question is how do you do it!?!?! lol

Nah but they are something more to keep you enemy busy really and work great as a supporting unit when it comes to helping you leaders of orc boy units in trouble.

Djekar
10-08-2011, 00:09
I would run them as a single unit. I have recently tried 30 on the flanks and they were really much better than I thought that they would be - they even managed to get some shooting wounds in before they got stuck in!

JingoJackson
10-08-2011, 00:39
I would run them as a single unit. I have recently tried 30 on the flanks and they were really much better than I thought that they would be - they even managed to get some shooting wounds in before they got stuck in!

Did you take a full command?

TMATK
10-08-2011, 00:45
Did you take a full command?

Take a musician at least so you can swift reform, so you can reform and shoot. If you play with the standard scenarios, I would also take a standard in case you get blood & glory. A champ gives you 1 BS4 shot, take it or leave it.

Cragum
10-08-2011, 00:53
i think a FC is entirely worth the points as pointed out above. It give you that one extra glimpse of hitting on a lower dice, what always puts your enemy on a bit more of an edge. Plus someone who can take a champion on face to face if they do end up scrapping. What with orc arrer boyz no doubt happens at some point.

Djekar
10-08-2011, 01:20
I took a banner in case of Blood and Glory, but I can certainly see the use for a musician in there as well. I just left them 10x3 and they did all right, but the 10 points to make them deeper when facing more sizable threats is probably a good investment. As far as the champion - I'm not sold on him.

Malorian
10-08-2011, 21:16
30 on a flank is nice but the OP only has 25.

With only that many available I would take a unit of 20 that could be your watchtower unit, your bunker, a screen, flanking unit, as needed.

Goldenwolf
10-08-2011, 21:37
I like Arrer Boyz, but usually field a block of 60 with Banner and Musician. With what you have, I think Mal is right, 20 with banner and musician. If not in the Watchtower go 10 wide and shoot 20 shots.

Tuttivillus
10-08-2011, 21:45
But still 25 gives nice rank bonus in combat.
FC definitly, maybe just skip unit champion costwise.

JingoJackson
10-08-2011, 21:53
30 on a flank is nice but the OP only has 25.

With only that many available I would take a unit of 20 that could be your watchtower unit, your bunker, a screen, flanking unit, as needed.

Why such different uses between a mob of 30 vs 25? With full command I have a odd 26...I was thinking of a bunker unit behind my main mobs.

60, no way...these are the plastic Orc Arrers from the 6th edition Warhammer release. I'm not paying $36 NZD for 3x metal Orc Arrers a time.

It seems that the rarity of the models makes you more thoughtful about your tactics, right assumption?

I'm returning to Warhammer after a long break.

TMATK
10-08-2011, 21:59
If you want 30 just fill the unit out with a few regular boyz.

Malorian
10-08-2011, 22:02
Why such different uses between a mob of 30 vs 25? With full command I have a odd 26...I was thinking of a bunker unit behind my main mobs.

30 is what you need to take full advantage of the unit. Put in horde formation you are looking at 30 str 4 attacks in combat and 25 str 3 bow shots.

If you aren't going to go to this level the next best size is 20 since it allows you to put them into the watchtower.

26 might sound like a nice middle ground, but it just makes them unusable for a watchtower and not enough to get the fully effect from.

Okuto
11-08-2011, 01:35
I use 24 arrer boyz and sit them on the flank or I sometimes use them as a bunker for shamans....

I dare say arrer boyz would make fine main line units......they can kill a few gits off from afar and still krump things dead gud in close combat

Malorian
11-08-2011, 01:37
8th ed is one by combat and not by shooting.

It's one thing to have them on the flanks to scare away flanking units and quite another to expect them to stand up to dedicated combat troops (even after you kill a small handful with arrows).

Okuto
11-08-2011, 02:09
Yes but a arrer boy costs the same as a regular orc boy with shield.....I think I'd rather take the ability to shoot something than +1 save

though savages and gobbos are way better line units from what I've seen

Malorian
11-08-2011, 03:25
Take 50 orcs with extra choppa or shield and 50 orcs with bows and pit them off against each other.

The unit based on combat will win.

Algorath
11-08-2011, 04:23
60, no way...these are the plastic Orc Arrers from the 6th edition Warhammer release.

Plastic? What madness is this?

Oh, you can give the savage orcs bows, or beg your peers for unused bows.


Malorian, your point comes across, but at the end of the day Arrer Boys still have the choppa rule; they're about a killy as ranged infantry get in this game, a point many people seem to forget.

As far as my advice:

Take the twenty, I'd give them the full command if you have the points; if you're running night gobbos you can place them in front to screen your orcs.

JingoJackson
11-08-2011, 04:39
I've got a thread onto a second page!

I've got 40 night goblins...they came pre-assembled with spears and shields.
A massive 10 wide by 4 deep screen?

That's been a few so far saying take 20 with full command. The other 6 I could pick up some more, if I find any and have a smaller 10 mob to keep back with war machines. When I get those...

friendsofrhomb
11-08-2011, 09:43
hmm, after reading this thread I decided to pull mine out, all 35 of the horribly modelled, unrank-upable plastic bastards. Next game- 40 with full command! Mhahahahaha. In regards to the OPs question, I'd do what Mal said and field 20 for the watchtower scenario. S4 makes them a little harder to replace than most other core troops

Djekar
11-08-2011, 13:58
Added bonus - if the scenario isn't Watchtower, then you can put them on the flank anyways!

Dark Aly
11-08-2011, 14:03
30 on a flank is nice but the OP only has 25.

With only that many available I would take a unit of 20 that could be your watchtower unit, your bunker, a screen, flanking unit, as needed.

That is excatly what mine are used for.

Tuttivillus
11-08-2011, 15:40
yes, but bows are good against low T targets, take 50 orks vs. empire state troops, and there will be other outcome.

Malorian
11-08-2011, 16:03
yes, but bows are good against low T targets, take 50 orks vs. empire state troops, and there will be other outcome.

40k vs fantasy terms aside...


Round 1:

50 arrer boyz (350) against 70 halbrediers (350)

Both assumed to be in horde formation and starting 24 inches apart, no failed animosity, and giving orcs first turn.

Orcs move up 4 inches and shoot and kill 1.4
Halbrediers march up 8 (so now 12 inches apart)

Orcs shoot and kill 4.9 (still long range)
Halbrediers charge and lose 1.4 to stand and shoot.

In combat the orcs kill 10 and the halbrediers kill 7.5. And halbrediers are steadfast.

In future rounds orcs kill 7.5 and halbrediers kill 7.5, meaning the halbrediers win the grind.


Round 2:

50 dual choppa boyz (350) against 70 halbrediers (350)

Both assumed to be in horde formation and starting 24 inches apart, no failed animosity and giving orcs first turn.

Movement doesn't matter so we jump to combat.

In the first round the orcs kill 13.3 and the halbrediers kill 7.5

In future rounds the orcs kill 8.3 and the halbrediers kill 7.5, meaning... they lose too...


Leason learned: Not only are arrows a bad way to win protracted combats, but orcs in general are not good at winning protracted combats.

Solution: Hordes of elite combat blocks that win combat quickly and consistantly.

Secondary leason learned: Don't pick fights with one of the best point for point units in the game :p

Tuttivillus
11-08-2011, 16:20
40k vs fantasy terms aside...



Orcs move up 4 inches and shoot and kill 1.4

Why did they move anyway?



Secondary leason learned: Don't pick fights with one of the best point for point units in the game :p

Bout halberdiers, true, maybe not best example. Thing is its sometimes god to have something shooty for flank protection, not fighting in horde fights. Are we still going with threads subject? * I have 25 arrer boyz, how to boot them?"

wizbix
11-08-2011, 16:34
All maths hammer aside, I would take a block of arrer boyz now and again just for the variation and the fun value. I might not take them in a tournament game though.

Leth Shyish'phak
11-08-2011, 16:37
Thing is its sometimes god to have something shooty for flank protection, not fighting in horde fights.

That's what Doom Divers and Rock Lobbers are for. :D

Mine seem to be developing a reputation for destroying anything that they set their sights on (especially Hell Cannons). :evilgrin:

Malorian
11-08-2011, 16:39
@Tuttivillus

The orcs moved because they would be out of range otherwise.


I whole heartedly support arrer boyz on the flank, its just that some people said they were good for your main unit too, and that I had to put down ;)

Glabro
11-08-2011, 20:26
@Tuttivillus

The orcs moved because they would be out of range otherwise.


Maybe elementary when it comes to the end result, but this is not the best move in a void (as in this scenario). Optimally, the orcs would move backwards 4", giving them the same extra shot without the penalty for moving. The Empire dudes would stall out of range only if the edge of the board ever became an issue for the Orcs -but even then we're back in step 1.