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lowix
11-08-2011, 21:35
Main book FAQ 1.5 is on their sight. I didn't see any other updates.
Only change was the power scroll change.

Skarsnik, the Lord
11-08-2011, 21:42
It's enough at the moment at least in my opinion. :)

- Cheers, Skarsnik. :yes:

Fawful
11-08-2011, 21:43
Good thing they added it so quickly. I think we can see the white dwarf changes as announcements for any incoming changes. I wonder how long it will take until the post the new rules for the vampire stuff.

vinush
11-08-2011, 21:46
It certainly looks promising.

THE \/ince

sulla
12-08-2011, 00:59
It's enough at the moment at least in my opinion. :)

- Cheers, Skarsnik. :yes::D
For me personally, it begs the question of when they will start 'fixing' other stuff, like army book template weapons out of line with basic s3 stone thrower, or the uber magic spells like purple sun, 13th, dwellers or gateway.

TsukeFox
12-08-2011, 04:11
:D
For me personally, it begs the question of when they will start 'fixing' other stuff, like army book template weapons out of line with basic s3 stone thrower, or the uber magic spells like purple sun, 13th, dwellers or gateway.

So long as chosen can easily get a 3 up ward and MR whatever the need for kill spells will be in need.
The next great offender would be the gutstar-but with luck the next book will give ogres more Strategic options than slapping a crap load of characters in one unit.
Sadly a new Warriors of chaos codex is far far away-WE, Brits, dwarfs, dark elves or warriors. Like another 2years?

Maoriboy007
12-08-2011, 04:15
So long as chosen can easily get a 3 up ward and MR whatever the need for kill spells will be in need.
The next great offender would be the gutstar-but with luck the next book will give ogres more Strategic options than slapping a crap load of characters in one unit.
Sadly a new Warriors of chaos codex is far far away-WE, Brits, dwarfs, dark elves or warriors. Like another 2years?

Unfortunately Chosen are still fairly immune to all of them (except maybe 13th) anyway while others die in droves. As they are they are too unbalancing. Being able to remove multiwound models entirely is fairly rediculous too, they seem to admit this in the latest army books.

TsukeFox
12-08-2011, 04:22
So true-wonder who the big F thought mindrazer was needed in the lore of shadows when pit o shades auto kills already.

As a skaven player I prefere plague over 13th-unless I am playing against elves, dwarf, or warriors/daemons o chaos who can be dangerously close to 20 or fewer RnF.
But I would gladly trade 13th for like a warpstone Vortex spell-big or small template that just does damage over the words " and die".

IcedCrow
12-08-2011, 04:34
So long as chosen can easily get a 3 up ward and MR whatever the need for kill spells will be in need.
The next great offender would be the gutstar-but with luck the next book will give ogres more Strategic options than slapping a crap load of characters in one unit.
Sadly a new Warriors of chaos codex is far far away-WE, Brits, dwarfs, dark elves or warriors. Like another 2years?

I don't think a new book will stop players from taking deathstar units. It's unfortunate, as it is very one dimensional, but it is an easy tactic to employ and as such very popular.

I wouldn't count on a new warriors of chaos book for a while, but if you follow trends, when it does come out, the warriors army list as a whole will go back to being nerfed like they were in their 6th edition incarnation (GW seems to alternate an army between being awesome and sucking horribly though sometimes they hit it on the head like the new TK book and give you a middle of the road army (which is where I think they all should be ))

Von Wibble
12-08-2011, 13:33
So long as chosen can easily get a 3 up ward and MR whatever the need for kill spells will be in need.
The next great offender would be the gutstar-but with luck the next book will give ogres more Strategic options than slapping a crap load of characters in one unit.
Sadly a new Warriors of chaos codex is far far away-WE, Brits, dwarfs, dark elves or warriors. Like another 2years?

You missed out High Elves and Empire. 3-4 years I'd have thought was a better estimate.

Haravikk
12-08-2011, 14:05
So long as chosen can easily get a 3 up ward and MR whatever the need for kill spells will be in need.
Not really, as with purple sun the Initiative test or Wound will be just as effective as it is currently, considering they have Initiative 5 I think?

For the Gutstar, they could just leave Pit of Shades as multi-wound, no armour, as it's not quite as easy to target.


This aside, I don't think it's worth pointing to problem units as reasons not to fix spells that can ruin the game by wiping out perfectly reasonable units in droves. For example, Dwarf Great Weapon hordes; they're powerful sure, but not cheap, and there are plenty of ways to deal with them without needing a spell which can guarantee the destruction of nearly all of them.

Even with the spells they're still problem units, as not everyone can get the ubėr spells anyway, it's a problem with those units more than anything.

TsukeFox
12-08-2011, 14:53
You missed out High Elves and Empire. 3-4 years I'd have thought was a better estimate.


Left them out as they do not really need updates as much as the ones I mentioned-unless high elves or empire have unit restrections like the ones Fore-mentioned. And sure high magic needs a revamp- as much as the beastman lore no one uses.

And over all- the other real problem is how easy it is to "total power" a spell-total power should happen when like the 75% of your dice turn up 6s & meet the casting value.
For instance when chunks 3 dice & 2 dic turn up 6s the spell is I.F. Like wise with 6 dice, 5 dice are needed to get a total powered spell.

Bad odds? Yes! But gone would be the days of chucking a butt load of dice just hoping to get 2 sixes- which we all know is waaay to easy to do.

abdulaapocolyps
12-08-2011, 16:49
Perhaps...I think miscasting and auto failing on a double 1 would be a good shout?you roll both and they cancel each other out?

Djekar
12-08-2011, 18:55
I agree with Tsuke - double 6's on 6 dice is pretty easy to hit considering. What is it, somewhere in the vicinity of 25%? I think that the miscast when IFing and the harsher miscast table were a step in the right direction, especially with the killer spells but I'm not sure that they need to stop there.

Also, I think it has been fairly talked to death but I agree with the super spells should only do a single wound crowd.

decker_cky
12-08-2011, 19:17
Unfortunately Chosen are still fairly immune to all of them (except maybe 13th) anyway while others die in droves. As they are they are too unbalancing. Being able to remove multiwound models entirely is fairly rediculous too, they seem to admit this in the latest army books.

I never got why people thought that. For purple sun comparing orcs to ogres....you remove 2/3 of the 1 wound models, or you remove 2/3 of the 3 wound models. It doesn't affect ogres more - it affects them exactly the same.

AlphariusOmegon20
12-08-2011, 19:30
And sure high magic needs a revamp- as much as the beastman lore no one uses.




I use Beasts regularly, along with Lore of the Wild. I've found that both are quite good lores actually.




Beasts:

Wissan's Wildform: S/T 4 Ungors, yes please! T5 Bray Shamans, yes please!

Flock of Doom: 2d6 S2 hits. I've found most opponents will let low strength spells go off without dispelling them. Plus it goes off on a 5+, so it's easy to get off.

Amber Spear: allows me to bring a war machine to the table, something I do not have in my Beastmen book. Paired up with the Hunting spear, now I'm on a better footing with comparison to other races.

Curse of Anraheir: almost designed to take War machines and shooty troops out of the equation, making it safer for your troops to get across the field.

Savage Beast of Horros: Strength 8, 7 attack Beastlords are common, but Beast seems to be designed to cast on a Bray shaman, making him S6, 4 attacks. Makes him a MUCH better fighter when need be.

Transformation of Kadon: This one I rarely use, as it's too easy to dispel it in your opponent's turn with PD. This is the only spell I would say is garbage.






Lore of the Wild:

Bestial Surge: Gets you across the field quick. Enough said.

Viletide: 5d6 S1 hits, very deceptive spell. What I said for Flock of Doom goes for Viletide also.

Devolve: 24" bubble of death. No armor save makes sure they die. Best used on low leadership units.

Bray Scream: Ever breath weaponed the same unit with two different sources in the same unit? I'll tell you it's disgusting how many models die. I've killed half a unit out of a 50 man Empire Swordman block this way in one turn.

Traitor Kin: Your opponent likes Cavalry? Then this spell is your ace in the hole. Also takes care of those pesky Hydras you're seeing lately.

Mantle of Ghorok: This is also a buff spell used similar to Savage Beast. Mantle has a drawback though 6's hurt you. Best used on a Lord choice, though Gorebulls are a good target also.

Savage Dominion: What's better than a free Giant or Ghorgon? I don't use the Jabberslythe as it's rules leave a bit to be desired. That it can't be dispelled once it's cast, is a big plus. Hide your Bray in a building after casting this one, cause you can't cast any more while the monster is alive, and you can't fight either.


All in all, both are good lores, it's just that they are very deceptive about HOW good they really are.

decker_cky
12-08-2011, 19:59
Bestial surge actually barely functions if you use the 1" rule since you generally have to pivot a little immediately.

Viletide is great.

Devolve was meh, and then they added BSB rerolls. If they added a note that BSB rerolls weren't allowed for it, it would be a decent spell. Very short ranged though.

Bray scream can't be cast into combat, making it extremely restricted. Make it an augment and increase the range and it becomes a lot more worthwhile.

Traitorkin is nice. Very short ranged though.

Mantle of Ghorok is a lower range random boost with a drawback and a higher casting cost than savage beast. If they gave this an 18" range, it would be interesting. 6" range is silly.

Savage dominion isn't bad. Pretty good, but far too restricted. If they removed all the can't cast, can't dispel, can't fight stuff, it'd be on par with other top spells. Allow ward saves against the toughness test wounds, and say you can't cast this again while a monster from it is still in play and you have a well balanced spell. All the current spell means is that you won't ever take it on a L4, so you need at least 2 L2's to ensure you get the spell.

----------

I think the lore would become pretty amazing if surge was the lore attribute (make it once per turn on any unit targeted by one of the augments in the lore, and directly forward or something), spell types were added, and a few things were fixed:
-Savage dominion less punitive.
-Mantle given range to make it more interesting and worth the casting cost compared to savage beast of horrors.
-Bray scream can be cast in combat, and has a longer range.
-Devolve disallows BSB rerolls.

Add in a new signature spell (maybe something that makes a unit gain swiftstride and reroll dangerous terrain checks for units within 12"?) and the lore is pretty nice competitive option which still is all about closing in on your opponents. The lore would also support ambush armies if GW allowed ambushing units to use the BRB ambush rules, which would add variety to the army.

Walgis
12-08-2011, 20:07
power scroll fixed :D

Maoriboy007
12-08-2011, 23:22
I never got why people thought that. For purple sun comparing orcs to ogres....you remove 2/3 of the 1 wound models, or you remove 2/3 of the 3 wound models. It doesn't affect ogres more - it affects them exactly the same.

Painting and fielding awesome models like warsphinxes is a but mud if they can just get taken off without doing anything with them.?

If they had had any sense the spell would have done D3 wounds to Infantry and Cavalry and D6 to monsters allowing ward saves. Still poewrful but not broken.

Drake Drizzle
13-08-2011, 05:59
I never got why people thought that. For purple sun comparing orcs to ogres....you remove 2/3 of the 1 wound models, or you remove 2/3 of the 3 wound models. It doesn't affect ogres more - it affects them exactly the same.

Are you serious? Of course the spell has the same effect on both units... that's not the point.

The point is that ogres cost over 3 times that of an orc, hence, why they have 3 wounds consolidated into a single model. You pay triple the points in exchange for more survivability, EXCEPT in the case of whole model-removing effects such as purple sun.

So yes, an orc player may lose exactly the same amount of models as an ogre player, but the ogre player pays for it much more dearly.

theunwantedbeing
13-08-2011, 12:33
New FAQ?
OMG OMG OMG

Oh...it's just an update for the power scroll and nothing else.

decker_cky
13-08-2011, 15:26
Lots of orcs cost about the same 1/3 of an ogre (biggest unit in the army will probably be savage orc big uns). Most dwarfs cost more than that. Per wound, there's only a few ogres that are particularly expensive. If it only caused a single wound, ogres would have better than elven survivability to the spell at an extremely cheap cost. That's to say nothing about the low initiative monsters, which get hefty discounts because of their vulnerability to initiative kill spells.

Harwammer
13-08-2011, 17:01
The point is that ogres cost over 3 times that of an orc, hence, why they have 3 wounds consolidated into a single model. You pay triple the points in exchange for more survivability, EXCEPT in the case of whole model-removing effects such as purple sun.

Purple Sun going through 300 points of orcs or ogres is going to remove around 200 points of orcs or ogres. If purple sun did single wounds instead of autokills then it would be 200 of 300 points of orcs removed versus 70 of 300 points of ogres.

Besides, you can fit more orcs under a PS/PoS template than ogres.