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Xhalax
02-06-2005, 00:04
As we all know, the Imperium as may enemies, both within and without. But who poses the greatest threat to bringing the Imperium to it's very knees?

Personally, my money is on either the Tyranids, since Leviathan is still going strong towards Terra and some believe that these Hive Fleets are merely the vanguard to a much bigger force.

Or the Imperium itself. It's human nature to destroy ourselves and I can see the Imperium getting crushed under it's own weight.

Agree? Disagree?
Your thoughts please.

LordofTzeentch
02-06-2005, 00:32
Well it all depends on which rumors are true

If their is infact the strongest of all the c'tan on mars then that poses a huge threat to them. Also the Necrons have proven they are capable of landing on mars. I believe that at the moment Tyranids do pose the greatest threat BUT only untill the Necrons actually mount a full attack as to my recolection they have yet to mount a full attack to gain teritory.

Xhalax
02-06-2005, 00:42
I get the feeling that the Necrons such be fighing the Nids more than the Imperium for territory when they finally get round to awakening all of their forces and striking out.
The Nids seem to be be the biggest short term threat to the galaxy....though to the Imperium, they could easily wipe a fair portion of the Imperium out before anything else.

Although, the new codex fluff hints that there are some that think they Hive Fleets that have been enaged may only be the vanguard to a much much bigger force.

But Necrons are a big threat to EVERYTHING, not just the Imperium.

wilting_laughter
02-06-2005, 01:00
I think necrons and chaos will keep each other in check.

That may not save the imperium though.......

Xhalax
02-06-2005, 01:09
Chaos v. Necrons.

So far I've never come across that in fluff, so I'm unsure how they may or may not fair. But I guess it would be interesting in a God against God type of way.

anarchistica
02-06-2005, 01:44
I believe last time it came down to this:

Eldar get pwned by everyone.

Orcs get pwned by the Imperium of Man.

The Imperium of Man get pwned by Chaos.

Chaos gets warp-shadowed by Tyranids.

Tyranids avoid planets where (only?) Necrons are present.

So i guess The Hivemind and the C'Tan would either have to get along, or duke it out. The Tyranids would likely lose, because they don't have spacegods leading them and they can't recycle Necrons (they phase out, i guess). At that point, Chaos could act again, but since it now lacks the immense warp-activity generated by googols of humans, they get pwned. Or at least driven back to the Eye of Terror/Warp. Can you attack the Warp? Could the Necrons conquer the other galaxy that was devoured by the Hivemind? Could Chaos build up power in the Warp/EOT to strike at the Necrons?

Basicaly, it depends on who has the newest Codex. :p

Xhalax
02-06-2005, 01:55
In a strange conversation with my older sibling (boogle) about using the Nids to get rid of Chaos, I ended that discussion deciding the Nids should just create a MASSIVE Nid and wedge its big backside into the Eye of Terror to stop Chaos getting out both physically and via the warp since the Hive Mind has that covered with 'The Shadow'

But what you've said there anachistica makes sense to me (though bearing in mind the above statement about the big-ass Nid, that's not saying much).
But the codex order does seem to dictate the big bad....and as Nids are the in thing right now, they're the biggest bad around.

But I still think they can whupp the Imperium before anyone else....well execpt the Imperium squashing itself flat before that. Probably in it's rush to swat the Nids.

Khaine's Messenger
02-06-2005, 02:20
Who is more of a threat? Chaos is supposed to be the greatest single threat to the Imperium of Mankind, excepting that institution's own internal failures (most of which were caused by the intervention of Chaos or chaotic entities). Aside from that, it boils down to which enemy of the week you want to talk about. Tyranids, for example, supposedly have more warm bodies than the Imperium has (or ever will have) in terms of ammunition and warm bodies (this is stated rather directly, although there's really no telling if it's mere hyperbole or not); if you see that as a major threat factor, then sure, there you go. The Necrons, by comparison, have the means to annihilate mankind should they feel so inclined, but it is unlikely that any of their plans are going to come to fruition any time soon (65 million years they've waited...their sort of time scale is pretty big). Orks, if united on a galactic scale, would not exactly be a pushover...but that would really never, ever happen. Most of the "biggest" threats are just posturing bullies, in fact, which is why so many of us like to quip that it's the Imperium itself that is its own greatest threat...or simply that there is no single greatest threat, but it is everything at once that makes it such a tenuous state of affairs.

Avenging Dentist
02-06-2005, 02:54
I think the only significant threats are from Chaos, Tyranids, and (possibly) Necrons. The Necrons aren't as threatening as they might be, since I don't believe they've all awoken yet, but even when they do, I think their primary focus will be Chaos, so the Imperium will be safe from them for a time.

Tyranids are a no-brainer. They have a huge amount of resources and devour entire planets at a time. It's doubtful that any single faction could withstand the Tyranids, so it's probably just a matter of time until they consume the entire galaxy.

However, I think the greatest imminent threat would be Chaos. Not only are there plenty of Chaos marines still around itching to dethrone the false emperor, but Chaos is also an insidious force that can rise up nearly anywhere. If not kept checked, growing Chaos cults could easily rip the Imperium apart in internecine war as the Inquisition tries in vain to stop them. Mass Exterminatus would only do so much good, since a widespread infestation would mean that an awful lot of planets are doomed. If it were serious enough, this could economically cripple the Imperium, making them easy prey to the various factions and other space nasties out there. At that point, I think even the various Ork tribes could crush the remnants of the Imperium, much like the sacking of Rome by the Goths.

And, of course, there's an Ork tribes called the Goffs, so...

Hellebore
02-06-2005, 07:24
The point is EVERY race is the worst in specific circumstances. Its like reading comic books and the superhero is depicted as THE best hero ever, beating every other superguy to save the world. But when a sidekick superhero from that book gets his own, then in HIS comic he is the greatest hero, beatinge everybody to save the world.

So under certain circumstances orks would destroy the galaxy, or chaos, or tyranids, or necrons.

This is the way i think it will work:

all the ig wars occurring destroy the imperium, allowing the proliferation of orks across the galaxy unchecked. Humanity is eaten by chaos, while the orks get eaten by the nids. The necrons come in and block the warp off from realspace thus neutering every race out there, including the tyranids.

Without the ability to tap the warp the tyranids revert to insitinctive behaviour and float around randomly, while the necrons then harvest every lifeform in the galaxy.

In the end I think the necrons will win due simply to their ability to stop access to the warp, something that is mentioned quite clearly as their great design anyway, and as all these mutually antagonisitc races start fighting over the galaxy, they will destroy one another until the necrons finish their great plan and conquer the galaxy.

hellebore

Eldacar
02-06-2005, 07:56
What about Ynead, the god of the dead? He may well play a part in it.

As to the greatest threat, it is a toss-up between the Necrons and the Tyranids. There's also Chaos, and Orks. It all depends on what happens, really. Eldar are already a dying race, and the only thing they have going for them is Ynead.

Isuran Greifenherz
02-06-2005, 08:12
Well i woulkd say that tyrandis and orks are the greatest threat because Tyrandis come from another galaxie and spread really quik nad orks there are just too many and orks are already in the middle of the imperium.

Brother Smith
03-06-2005, 18:39
All the races are major threats, thats why they are playable 40k races. There are plenty of smaller races we've never heard of.

Minister
03-06-2005, 21:41
Traitors, heretics, seditionists, witches, mutants, criminals, wreckers. The scum who blight the noble form of humanity by their every breath and seek to drag the million worlds into eternal damnation by their immorality.

The Dragon Reborn
03-06-2005, 23:44
In the new rule book it says the orks if united are by far the strongest. there only problem is that they can't all unite they keep fighting each other. go greenbacks

Minister
04-06-2005, 00:10
The Orks and their kind have always been a force which, if united, could defeat every other force in the galaxy, possibly at the same time. The only saving grace, from the point of view of everyone else, is that the Orks' very nature prohibits the long-range organisation that this would require.

mostholycerebus
04-06-2005, 01:21
The Imperium is an evil, fascist empire where any increase in knowledge or technology is stifled by their corrupt and power-mad administration. They routinely exploit and liquidate their own people ruthlessly. The Imperium probably kills more of it's own people than many 'external' threats. All while keeping the masses blinded by the worship of a dessicated husk.

Their only hope for improvement is change brought on by Chaos, and ultimately a balance between the two extremes.

Eldacar
04-06-2005, 10:00
Somebody's got opinions. :rolleyes: :p

Of course, there's the problem that the Imperium doesn't want mutants getting out and about. How would you feel if somebody with two heads and sharp teeth showed up at your doorstep? Answer: Not good. Be thankful that the Inquisition keeps working to stop the Chaos threat.

Second. Chaos won't balance the Imperium. It will destroy it. If Chaos gets free, the Imperium is doomed. There will be no balance. Humanity is supposed to be evolving into a completely psychic race, IIRC, and the onslaught of Chaos would destroy this evolution.

Hlokk
04-06-2005, 18:16
greatest threat to the imperium? Gav thorpe being let anywhere near a new codex ;)

I honsetly reckon its a tossup between the tyranids or the necrons, for the simple reason we dont know how many there are of either. There could be loads more hive fleets on the way, and, in a similar vein, there could be thousands of dead planets, each playing host to billions of dormant necrons.

Although the orks could be more of a hreat at the present moment that anything else, because of armageddon and the whole "ragna-ork" thing (its a stupid name). Ghazghul probably will make a third play for armageddon and that could be disasterous for the imperium

In the grand scheme of things, i dont think eldar are a significant threat as they dont have the numbers. sure, their rock hard in their own right, but they cant field trillions upon trillions of troops like the IG can. Its the same with the tau, demiurg, hrud and various other races.

The pestilent 1
04-06-2005, 18:21
i personally reckon the necrons could stand to gain from an.. "agreement" with the nids.
you kill everything that could threaten our gods (c'tan) and we let you munch the rest of the universe as you will.
or divide it right down the centre or somthing, maybe some huge breeding program to keep the c'tan happy ALA matrix.

Avenging Dentist
04-06-2005, 18:54
Second. Chaos won't balance the Imperium. It will destroy it. If Chaos gets free, the Imperium is doomed. There will be no balance. Humanity is supposed to be evolving into a completely psychic race, IIRC, and the onslaught of Chaos would destroy this evolution.
Unfortunately for the Imperium, this is true. Making a pact with daemons will never work out to your benefit. The Imperium is aware of this, and has thus been forced into a brutal, fascist regime, simply because it is surrounded by enemies within and without. Really, the last great hope for humanity lay with the Emperor, but Horus' treachery pretty much destroyed any chance of a Golden Age (I suppose you could argue that the Golden Age is still possible if Cypher kills the Emperor and so on...).

I don't know if I agree that humanity is evolving into a psychic race (though it's true that psykers are becoming more prevalent). In the 40K mythos, humans have always been psychic. However, all the psykers of the past sacrificed themselves to create the Emperor. Psykers didn't return until the Age of Strife, when Slaanesh was being formed. I imagine that daemons (or something) just put the "psyker" gene back into our gene pool to help herald Slaanesh's birth, and things have spiralled downhill since then.


i personally reckon the necrons could stand to gain from an.. "agreement" with the nids.
I don't think this would ever happen. The Tyranids are a psychic race, and the C'tan's ultimate goal is the isolation of realspace from Warpspace. Given the potency of the Tyranid hive mind, I highly doubt the C'tan could allow them to exist.

The pestilent 1
04-06-2005, 19:10
well yes. but look at it like this.
the Tyranids are animilistic, the overwhelming desire to consume... well, overwhelms their self-preservation instincts.
the tyranids may be like a force of nature, but they seem to want to give the necrons a wide-birth for whatever reason.
and so; prehaps the c'tan -as beings of immense age, possibly existed since the very begining!- could see sense in reason, they go off and we never hear from them again.

The boyz
05-06-2005, 14:01
I would say that the biggest threat at the moment to the Imperium is the Tyranids.

Iracundus
05-06-2005, 15:08
Though he biggest threat is usually the latest non-Imperial Codex released, I'd still have to say Tyranids.

With the release of their latest Codex revealing the latest progression of their storyline, apparently about 100 Imperial worlds have been sacrificed/lost to Leviathan including a major Forge World, Gryphonne IV. In an Imperium commonly touted to be about a million worlds, that is still 0.01%, which may sound tiny but is still an appreciable fraction.

Chaos I see as more a cancer weakening the Imperium (need for worship or warpstorms to get Daemonic reinforcement or sustain them) but what may deliver the deathblow would be the seemingly endless tides of Tyranids which can rove at will through space picking off soft targets. The Imperium is diverting forces to stop Abaddon's 13th Crusade from expanding their foothold around the Cadian Gate, so the periphery should erode even more quickly. The Tyranids have been temporarily diverted to munch on an Ork empire but that only buys time, and in the end they'd come back with even more biomass after absorbing that particular Ork enclave.

Orks while maybe giving Tyranids a run for their money in terms of numbers are divided and can be picked off in their individual empires.

I think the Imperium's policy of engaging Tyranids on the ground is fundamentally flawed (though of course 40K is a ground battle game) compared to engaging Hive Fleets in space where the Tyranids don't seem to reclaim battle debris for biomass. I assume probably because it'd be more trouble than it is worth to trawl vacuum for the tiny vaporized pieces of a blown apart Tyranid ship.

The pestilent 1
05-06-2005, 22:45
well we all know that the eldar bite it fighting chaos (the Rhana Dhandra)

the orks are way to fragmented to be a true threat (on a galactic scale this is)

the Tau are just going to keep pissing around until they annoy somthing old. mean and nasty. (im thinking a Really old greater daemon, or daemon prince, maybe a necron tomb world, heck, id like to see a chaos gate on Tau'va)

the necrons are out of their time, its only so long before the imperium figures out that blowing a tomb world sky-high will prevent a c'tan getting some new boots there.

the imperium is pretty much screwed anyway, sooner or later.

Chaos has a real threat from the c'tan.
sending the planet killer, and smushing some necron tomb worlds maybe.
or maybe reverse engineering the blackston fortress...
(maybe the heart of chaos grants understanding of the eldar gods and their constructs... maybe. probably not)

the nids?
the nid fleets known are but a Vanguard to a relentless machine that has consumed its way from atleast one other galaxy, probably more.

blitz589
05-06-2005, 22:58
Tyranids will eventally evolve to be greater then all races. until necrons awaken, because fluff wise tyranid weapons wouldent affect the necrons.

Iracundus
06-06-2005, 07:01
Sure they would. The Tyranids have Zoanthropes to throw psychic energy around. Acid is already used in sniper weapons against Necrons, so the bio-weapons of Tyranids with their acidic components can definitely melt the metal of Necron constructs. Finally there is good old fashioned kinetic energy and sharp edges in the form of scything talons, rending claws, etc...

Barbarossa
06-06-2005, 07:22
If synapse creatures are tasty to the star gods, the tyranids will find this galaxy rather dangerous. After all, the C'tan almost wiped this galaxy clean once just because they went to dinner.

blitz589
07-06-2005, 23:41
Ctan can eventully be killed, tyranids cant, its a never ending swarm

When Black Roses Bloom
08-06-2005, 02:51
Originally Posted by Eldacar
Second. Chaos won't balance the Imperium. It will destroy it. If Chaos gets free, the Imperium is doomed. There will be no balance. Humanity is supposed to be evolving into a completely psychic race, IIRC, and the onslaught of Chaos would destroy this evolution

And what about the 2 founding chapters that are not listed anywhere? What have become of them? I agree to the idea that the Ruinous Powers will be the downfall for the Imperium Of Man, but only for Man. The Armys Of Chaos have a card up their sleeves but only against mankind.

Something else that I saw and made me think some things: Someone told about the Chaos Army and the dethronement of the False Emperor. Well? What will happen if litteraly the Emperor will be dethroned? Had anyone thought about that?

anarchistica
08-06-2005, 23:02
Something else that I saw and made me think some things: Someone told about the Chaos Army and the dethronement of the False Emperor. Well? What will happen if litteraly the Emperor will be dethroned? Had anyone thought about that?
The Emperor will die, as will the psykers who work in his support. Then the Astronomicon will vanish and the Imperium will fall apart because warp travel is impossible without this beacon to focus on. What happens next is obvious.

"Divide and conquer"

blitz589
08-06-2005, 23:17
Chaos and SM will eventully be killed by tyranids pemantly sice tyranids evolve, and SMs have a fixed gene seed.

When Black Roses Bloom
09-06-2005, 05:33
The Emperor will die, as will the psykers who work in his support. Then the Astronomicon will vanish and the Imperium will fall apart because warp travel is impossible without this beacon to focus on. What happens next is obvious.

"Divide and conquer"


I am aware of this. The essence though of the Emperor, what will do? There are rumors that say that the Emperor's essence will enter the Eye Of Terror and destroy everything in it's pass. I heard from someone else that the hive mind of the Tyranid spieces is actually the semi-aware essence of the Emperor who punishes the Imperium because of it's corruption. Have anyone heard any similar rumor?

Eldacar
09-06-2005, 11:31
There are rumors that say that the Emperor's essence will enter the Eye Of Terror and destroy everything in it's pass. I heard from someone else that the hive mind of the Tyranid spieces is actually the semi-aware essence of the Emperor who punishes the Imperium because of it's corruption. Have anyone heard any similar rumor?
I haven't heard of it. Where did you hear it from?

Typheron
09-06-2005, 12:33
no, and its definatly just a rumour and not a very good one at that im afraid.


The nids are a race that evelovd in another galaxy and basically hoover the universe for biomass, basically evolution run rampant. They have no (known) connection to the emperor other than there in the same galaxy as him.

Also warp travel is not impossable without the astronomicon, it can be done but it is extremly dangerous to do even with a skilled astropath on board. Kinda like sailing at night without any lights at all.

Lord Lucifer
09-06-2005, 13:41
The Imperium is the 'tall poppy' in the 40K universe.
It's simply so vast and massive that there's no escaping the presence of Man.

Mankind is the biggest threat to the galaxy, and in being so, is the biggest threat to itself because by virtue of its sheer size it has encroached on the territory of every other significant threat in the galaxy.

Chaos is a threat, and in a way, isn't. It's a symbiotic relationship, mortals are the host body, Chaos is the parasite that feeds off it.

Tyranids are a BIG threat, but once the Hive Mind is cracked, that'll be all she wrote.

Necrons are lovely and mysterious and all
You'll never be rid of Orks

Tau and Eldar are only local threats, neither of which are likely to be around for very long in the grand scheme of things

El_Machinae
04-07-2005, 19:56
Time, but not in the way some have mentioned.

Where do you think that all these feral or feudal worlds have come from? They wouldn't have been colonized if they weren't perceived to have value. Way back when, before they became low-tech, they likely were quite useful to the Imperium (or whatever was before).

As the Imperium planets consume their non-renewables, each planet will slowly degrade into uselessness. Once the heavy metals, promethium, etc. have been harvested from the planet, its system, and its neighboring systems, the planet will not have anything to contribute to the imperium and will eventually degrade into a low-tech world.

By not investing non-renewables in progress, only maintenance, they are eventually doomed.

Wez
04-07-2005, 20:25
I'd have thought that Tau deserve a mention. If they continue to advance their weapon tech at such rates, there's not much you can do about them.

Nids and necrons also seem to be a worry for reasons mentioned above.

-Wez

Falkus
05-07-2005, 03:58
I'd have thought that Tau deserve a mention. If they continue to advance their weapon tech at such rates, there's not much you can do about them

While I'm a big fan of the Tau, they're in no way a threat to the imperium as a whole.

Brusilov
05-07-2005, 06:49
I suppose it's been mentioned before but the greatest threat to the Imperium is IMHO none other than the Imperium itself.
It is tearing itself apart in civil wars as worlds try to gain their independence instead of standing together with the rest of the Imperium. It is led by often corrupt and self-interested men who do not have its interests at heart. It is oppressing the people, like psykers, that could most helpful to its cause.

And let's not mention the fact that it is an oppressive government that leads many to seek freedom either in rebellion or in the embrace of Chaos.

Personally I would see the Imperium collapse but of its own inner contradictions rather than because of the push of some alien race.
Nevertheless, it may still be the only chance mankind has got in such an hostile galaxy.

archangels uk
05-07-2005, 14:11
I havent played 40k in a while, but still like to read up on the fluff, so feel free to correct me if iam wrong,

firstly, tyranids, there are meant to be billions trillions etc etc, and they survive and evolve by consuming bio mass, what happens when there is NO bio mass left?, surely if there is billions more out there there must be trillions more food soruces out there?, that should be enough to stop the tyranids from all gathering onto the imperuims galaxy, then if not surely they will die out if they eat all the bio mass?.

As for the two lost chapters, it looks like the guy that wrote it (cant be bothered to read it again!), thinks those two went to choas, well what if, given the fact the emperor was a clever guy, thought of a plan b and stuck these two in reserve some where in a legion style (1000 marines each chapter) with there primarchs still alive and loads of dark age of tech, technolgy loads of training and fresh and prepared and fighting for the imperium, that would be a sight for chaos eyes!.


The tau have a long time before becoming a threat and i doubt they will. The eldar IMO is still a threat, maybe they will unleash secret weapons in the black libary that will kill/weaken slaanesh and enable all the dead eldar (in the stones things) to come back to life and fight off necrons and choas.

Orks, now this is interesting imo, maybe they will see the necrons as such a big threat and unite galaxy wide to fight off a C'tan or two, maybe that was the master plan of the old ones, who knows the orks pyhsic may be more harmful to necrons then the eldars.....

Choas, everyone knows choas and the details behind it!, sort of like orks with there infighting, its the yang to the imperuims yin.

As for the overall fluff of GW, surely someone there knows where they are heading with the fluff and the different sub sections, when writing a story most people have a beginning middle and end already sketched out (or multiple ends....), or course no doubt GW will ever radically change 40k universe, just not in their interests.

There are a load more threats, like what is hidden in the next universe, whats in teh web ways, the eldar gods, all the choas gods, necron gods, ork gods, etc etc.

Oh and the last note, tyranid hive mind, this is classed by most people as a overwhelming force, which no warp presence has a effect over, surely there is a limit to this power and maybe tzeentch will be the one to test and break this power

liquiddream78
05-07-2005, 16:07
Imo, I feel the long term threat has to be the Necrons. Since it has already been established that they have Tombs on Mars, they could wake up at any time and take out their "Machine God" planet.

I agree that the nids pose a short term threat but I feel that if the C'tan decide to wake (which could be anytime) GAME OVER.
:eek:

Brusilov
05-07-2005, 18:36
I would argue that even the awakening of the C'tan would not necessarily mean "game over" as you say. It would possibly mean the end of the Imperium as we know it, but even then Chaos has enough psychic abilities to wreak some havoc with the C'tan.
And I'm not even sure the awakening of Void Dragon would be as catastrophic as you say. Personally I believe the cult is nothing more than a very small minority

El_Machinae
05-07-2005, 19:03
Orks, now this is interesting imo, maybe they will see the necrons as such a big threat and unite galaxy wide to fight off a C'tan or two, maybe that was the master plan of the old ones, who knows the orks pyhsic may be more harmful to necrons then the eldars.....


This is totally off-topic, but I was reading a Stephen Baxter short story where a group of humans turned into super-soldiers when they were confronted with certain stimuli. Their ancestors had hard-wired their DNA to mutate them if they ran into their ancient enemies.

Orks could be wired the same way. We already know that they have skills hard-wired into their DNA. Give them a wrench and a jalopy, and they just know what to do. Maybe they have additional instructions in their DNA as well?

Maybe exposure to necrons would cause a hard-wired mutation to kick in, and increase their ability and specialization against the necrons? Maybe their current incarnation is merely to be breeding, wasteful pests, and there is another layer to their DNA?

That would be kinda cool, that the Old Ones thought that far in advance.

Brusilov
05-07-2005, 19:10
That's actually an interesting thought and would not be beyond the Old Ones. However I've always thought of the Orks as more of a stopgap measure than the actual answer of the Old Ones to the C'tan and Necrons. If anything, their masterpiece, the Eldar, should have filled that role if they failed.

Mr.terminatorbob
05-07-2005, 19:36
I think the necrons would be a big threat because the nids cant consume them and once the nids completely harvest the galxay or the imperium beats them back the necrons can just harvest the races.

Rogue Sun
05-07-2005, 20:32
While I'm a big fan of the Tau, they're in no way a threat to the imperium as a whole.

I don't see why not. I understand that the tau don't have massive numbers, but they created technology more advanced than the Imperium in 6000 years. It took the Imperium 40,000 years to get where they are now, and the Tau still have more advanced technology. What do you think they will have in another 6000 years? I could see every single firewarrior having the firepower of a Titan at their hands...

Rogue Sun
Out

Falkus
05-07-2005, 20:52
I don't see why not. I understand that the tau don't have massive numbers, but they created technology more advanced than the Imperium in 6000 years.

Only in certain areas. The Imperium, as much as I hate to admit it, still has the lead in several fields of science.

Brusilov
05-07-2005, 20:54
I'm not denying the threat that the C'tan and Necrons represent mind you. Personally I place the battle against the C'tan after the confrontation between Law and Chaos, once the warp has been united under one master, either the Emperor/Star Child or the Great Unamable One of Chaos Undivided. All then do the living races stand a chance against the C'tan because of the amount of psychic power they could unleash at them.

But this order only gives either Chaos or the Imperium the best chance. It won't happen in this way. It'd probably be a three-way battle between the servants of Law/children of the Old Ones, the agents of Chaos and the C'tan.

Lord Lucifer
06-07-2005, 03:47
I don't see why not. I understand that the tau don't have massive numbers, but they created technology more advanced than the Imperium in 6000 years. It took the Imperium 40,000 years to get where they are now, and the Tau still have more advanced technology. What do you think they will have in another 6000 years? I could see every single firewarrior having the firepower of a Titan at their hands...

Rogue Sun
Out

Actually, it took significantly less than 40,000 years for the Imperium to get further than it currently is, then the Dark Age of Technology kicked in and humanity imploded and collapsed, and a lot of the wonders they once possessed were forgotten.
Now the Imperium functions on the precious few secrets they remember from that era, the limited catalogue of STC constructs they still possess.

The Imperium as at the stage it is now because it regressed

CommissarKlink
06-07-2005, 04:20
I could see every single firewarrior having the firepower of a Titan at their hands...

That might be a little excessive... we should probably take necron tech as the very limit of physical-science based military technology, though that still could potentially put the Tau in the position to be a serious threat.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the propaganda/assimilation side of the Tau expansionist effort. From the one WD article with the propaganda video being analyzed, there's the suggestion that all it takes is the absence of a commissar and a generally hopeless situation for the men of the Imperial Guard to join the Greater Good. The Imperium pretty much has military defenses down cold, but their crude and simplistic mental controls seem vulnerable to the Tau, given the right circumstances.

In essence, the Tau are the only force opposing the imperium to use both the stick and carrot. Well, maybe chaos too, but they're such an old enemy that the Imperium has been specifically adapting to counter them ceaselessly since the ascension of the Emperor.

Brusilov
06-07-2005, 06:32
On the matter of guardsmen turning to the Greater Good, I would say it is not much surprising. The examples given IIRC concern the Damocles Gulf Crusade and the fact whole regiments were abandoned because of the rush back to counter Hive Fleet Behemoth. Thus it is not surprising people would feel betrayed, nevertheless the propaganda movies argue that the Imperials are still allowed to worship the Emperor, which would be the most important, especially if they have no choice but to die or accept the rule of the Emperor.

On the matter of civilians turning to the Great Good (as in the novel For the Emperor), it is not mentioned whether the Tau have a propaganda machine or people naturally turn to them.

Gavmo
06-07-2005, 06:45
I believe that the greatest threat to the universe is the steadily climbing price of minatures...

Brusilov
06-07-2005, 06:57
Yes, true enough, but this argument has nothing to do with fluff you know... :rolleyes:

Warlord Gnashgrod
06-07-2005, 07:06
Is there really a 'greatest threat to the Imperium'? Each other race provides a considerable threat to the Imperium in it's own unique way. Lets face it, the Imperium is surrounded by enemies.

If I had to chose one, though, I would say either Chaos(since they are almost numberless thanks to undying daemons, arising cults, etc etc) or the Imperium itself. They xenophobia and banning against innovation will ultimately be the death of them, IMO.

El_Machinae
06-07-2005, 23:01
While the Tau seem to have a lot of potential, they seem to lack the ability to expand and still remain and Empire. My example would be Farsight. He's only a few light years from the Empire, and they've already lost control of him.

The Tau as a race might be a threat, but the Tau Empire will probably not be, because they're already experiencing strong growing pains. They cannot maintain authority-at-a-distance, which is not a surprise, but it is a weakness.

Jal'knock
07-07-2005, 01:25
The Tyranids are the most likely to be able to take out the Imperium. They've gained momentum and have been slowed but at the cost of hundreds of worlds and when the beat the Orks they will emerge stronger and more noumerous than ever. Even a Chaos Marine pointed out the danger in the new Nid Codex.

Falkus
07-07-2005, 02:28
While the Tau seem to have a lot of potential, they seem to lack the ability to expand and still remain and Empire. My example would be Farsight. He's only a few light years from the Empire, and they've already lost control of him.

Only because of a freak accident during one of his campaigns where all the Ethereals in the region were killed.


The Tau as a race might be a threat, but the Tau Empire will probably not be, because they're already experiencing strong growing pains. They cannot maintain authority-at-a-distance, which is not a surprise, but it is a weakness.

They did it just fine when they were setting up colonies across the Damocles gulf.

Shinzui
07-07-2005, 05:45
While the Tau seem to have a lot of potential, they seem to lack the ability to expand and still remain and Empire. My example would be Farsight. He's only a few light years from the Empire, and they've already lost control of him.

A few light years? The Damocles gulf takes 5 months to cross and thats with Imperial warp travel.

Wiseman
07-07-2005, 07:05
the imperium will destroy itself, its human nature to do so.

DantesInferno
07-07-2005, 07:11
the imperium will destroy itself, its human nature to do so.

It's managed to defy human nature for the last 10 000 years, then. That's quite a precedent.

Wiseman
07-07-2005, 07:39
thats true, but its slowly crumbling the whole time

GrogsnotPowwabomba
07-07-2005, 15:31
My vote is either the Tyranids for reasons already mentioned, or the Tau, because of superior technology and a "soft" campaign that gives humans an alternative to the Imperium (which doesn't seem like a fun place).

El_Machinae
07-07-2005, 16:31
Only because of a freak accident during one of his campaigns where all the Ethereals in the region were killed.


I'm under the impression that the freak accident was what was 'reported', and not what actually happened (a coup).

And the fact that he's only a year away from his government is the point. At a certain distance, they cannot maintain an Empire.

Falkus
07-07-2005, 17:08
I'm under the impression that the freak accident was what was 'reported', and not what actually happened (a coup).

What makes you think that?


And the fact that he's only a year away from his government is the point. At a certain distance, they cannot maintain an Empire

The situation is under investigation, IIRC, not to mention, it's the only incident of its kind ever.

Simon23
07-07-2005, 18:59
The only races actually capable of taking out the imperium are the Tyranids and the Necrons.
The Nids are the most likely because they`re relentless and plain damn scary. With every planet they take their numbers swell all over again so it doesn`t really matter how many you kill. Plus we don`t know how many are "out there"
The necrons have gods at their disposal which is always handy

The tau will NEVER defeat the imperium, they don`t have the stomach for a campaign of attrition.
However if it were reality, i`d join the tau. They seem decent enough!

EmperorsChamp01
07-07-2005, 20:01
I think that the Orks pose the most threat on the Imperium. You cant ever kill the buggers. You maybe able to kill the Waaagh but they just spread their spores around and in like 30 years you have a whole nother Waaaaagh on your hands. The Imperium is probally the second most threating thing to the Imperium. The Space Marines arnt fighting together like in the great crusade. They are just really looking out for thier chapter. They arnt serving their purpose in Defending the Imperium like they should be.

They have to be asked to help defend a plannet and if the chapter master is in a bad mood that day a whole plannet could fall under the and enemy force.

The eldar is probally the 3rd threat to the Imperium. They are a dieing race so they dont see any reason to live. They have devastating weapons and they welcome death.

Then is the Necrons. Those things are hard to fricken kill.

Then Nids just cuz they fight together as one.

Then Chaos. Thier basically out for themselves in the EoT so they really dont do anything.

Then the Tau. Yea they really pose a threat pssssssshhhh as if *rolls eyes*

warpoet
08-07-2005, 02:16
[QUOTE=EmperorsChamp01]I think that the Orks pose the most threat on the Imperium. You cant ever kill the buggers. You maybe able to kill the Waaagh but they just spread their spores around and in like 30 years you have a whole nother Waaaaagh on your hands. QUOTE]

Yep. It depends upon the word "threat."

Do you mean a threat to go in and take everything? Then no, not the orks.

But just to always be around no matter what, impossible to wipe out? Greenies all the way.

Lord Zsinj
21-08-2005, 19:53
Not so IMO. The Necron and the nids could both harvest the Orks, leaving no spores behind. Remember that Leviathon has sparked the largest mass migration of Orks in recorded history. They may like a good fight, but it sounds like even they want no part of the nids if possible. Tau are too small and it's dawning on them that taking the galaxy is not going to as easy as they thought. The Imperium does what it does to insure the survival of the human species. It is horrible by our standards, but totally necessary by the standards of the story. Chaos can't survive long outside the warp. Eldar are dying, and DE are a joke. That just leaves the crons and nids. The nids are constantly adapting and the number of hive fleets still kicking around out there is a mystery (aka as many as GW wants them to have). On the other hand, the crons are lead by undying gods and have tech that makes what even the tau and eldar stuff look like childrens toys. And their true numbers are unknown. I'd put my money on Necrons, but it would be an ugly matchup anyway you look at it.

Scythe
22-08-2005, 10:05
In terms of time, I think Nids are currently the biggest concern. Chaos is nasty, but their progress over the last 10.000 years is not really impressive. Orks could destroy the imperium, but they will never unite as one. Eldar are dieing, and simply lack the manpower, no mather how amazing their weapons might be, altough they could go out with a blow. Tau have great potential, and could be the new mayor race around given time, but I'm afraid they don't have that time. Necrons work on a whole other timescale as everything so far. They think in millions of years instead of hunderds or thousands of years. And this is were the main advantage of the Nids lies.

Nids have only seriously arrived a few hundred years ago. Since then, the hive fleets who followed were each time on a shorted time scale, and greater in number. And it is usually assumed that the Nids now released against the imperium are only the vanguard force. It is assumed that the main Nid forces will arrive in the imperium within the next 100 years. That's extremely fast, and I'm afraid it will be game over when that happens. The imperium can hardly keep Leviathan at bay as the current situation stands, and the arrival of the main and much larger nid force within such extremely short time period will probably be the end of the imperium.

Kage2020
22-08-2005, 18:00
I shall write a quick and 'standard' reply to this topic: The greatest threat to the Imperium is, of course, the Imperium itself. Or, rather, the people in it! :D

Everything else is just window-dressing and a bit of a red herring. ;)

Kage

Mr.terminatorbob
24-08-2005, 01:11
the greatset threat to the imperium and all his people is and mind you this the truth the REAL truth is are you ready for it ........................ my bad breath! :D It was me who killed Angron,Horus,and Alpharis with thats right my bsd breath and now I plan to take over imperium with my breath. :evilgrin: :chrome: ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa...................."Abbadon whats my motivation ,I mean why should I take the imperium over my hearts not in it'.Your motivation is your LIFE fool I will enjoy dismembering you if you fail. Muwahhahah.
but I dont have an army................fool you killed the death guard no one wants to be in your army.oh fine..............

Kage2020
24-08-2005, 01:12
Okaaaay... :rolleyes: ;)

Kage

Mr.terminatorbob
24-08-2005, 01:23
:D had to much sugar, and crap :wtf:
I get unstable at night

Kage2020
24-08-2005, 01:44
Increasingly OffT...

But one might suggest that sleep might be a good alternative! ;)

Kage

Mr.terminatorbob
24-08-2005, 02:51
never! I will never be silinced! :chrome: bow down to me the lord of bad breath!ha ha ha ha haa haa ha ha ah ah ah ah ab ha hah a h a a ha ha ah ha a a ah ah ha ha ha ha a a a a ha :D burn hertics burn. :evilgrin:

Jaq Draco
24-08-2005, 02:56
ok this is getting off topic so quickly.

back on topic

current fluff has me seeing as the Tyranids are the biggest threat because its an unstoppable hoard.
biggest secret threat is Chaos.
even though basically every man and his dog knows the secret.
hell even in the first space wolf novel young ragnar showed that he knew of something chaosy, i think it was Horus's name.
the whole entire Space Wolf chapter hates the Thousand sons, so yep big secret being kept there, whole chapter knows of chaos.

but back on topic
main threat being portrayed is the Tyranid hoard, big threat, but trying to be kept a secret is Chaos.
so either way, both are the biggest threat to the Imperium

Kage2020
24-08-2005, 03:31
Anything is OnT since everything is relevant... or not, depending on what your interpretation is. Which is why I shall henceforth bow of this discussions...

/Kage

d.i.greene
24-08-2005, 14:00
Definitely Tyranids, in the short term. If they get past the short term, Necrons.

Mr.terminatorbob
24-08-2005, 14:02
it was slaneesh he know of he said something about the all father improising him/her in some mountains.

Brusilov
24-08-2005, 14:27
To me Nids are the greatest threat to the Imperium because it's the most recent Codex to have been released, before that it was the C'tan and before that it was Chaos, and after that it will be some Xenos race getting a new Codex release.
In every Codex the army described is the biggest threat to the Imperium (who would play an army that the Imperium can crush at a moment's notice without even consciously thinking about it).

If you ask me, the Imperium's greatest threat is itself, its internal divisions, its wars of faith, its heresies (not provoked by Chaos or Xenos), its infighting. Nothing else can bring down the Imperium.

Xhalax
24-08-2005, 14:51
Yup.
Since its in humanity's nature for us to destroy ourselves, it makes a lot of sense for the Imperium to be it's very own downfall and cause of destruction.

Plus nothing lasts forever and by the 41st Millennium, humanity has had a fairily good innings, as has the Imperium...lasting for 10,000 years. But since there seems to be a general concensus that 'change is bad' in the Imperium....it may ultimately be stagnation that gets us all first.

Khaine's Messenger
24-08-2005, 15:33
In every Codex the army described is the biggest threat to the Imperium (who would play an army that the Imperium can crush at a moment's notice without even consciously thinking about it).

That really makes me wonder about any DE re-release, then. Official Imperial threat calculations (as per their IX article) note that losses to the Dark Eldar are, overall, considered to be utterly negligible...even in light of the 13th Black Crusade. That may just be Imperial arrogance, though. Can't wait to see what their 'dex will bring.... ;)

Brusilov
24-08-2005, 19:14
Well, at least the IX puts things back in perspective by acknowledging that DE do little damage, after all they're raiders, not conquerors, and as such they only attack badly defended outlying settlements, they do not conquer worlds like the other races do.
Considering the DE's nature it would be hard to make them in the next biggest threat in the galaxy, which is okay in my book, because the DE don't care about conquering Mon Keigh land, they only care about taking slaves to be sacrificed to allow them to survive a while longer, which makes for a much more interesting concept than another all-conquering species :rolleyes:

config
25-08-2005, 12:09
don't know if it was said already but in my opinion the biggest military threat to the imperium would be a united ork empire.

Scythe
25-08-2005, 15:13
don't know if it was said already but in my opinion the biggest military threat to the imperium would be a united ork empire.

Unfortunately (or not... depending on your view..;)) that is never going to happen.

Brusilov
25-08-2005, 16:35
Indeed, the Orks would probably not be able to maintain a fighting coherence for very long. Even a warlord as mighty and respected as Ghazghkull did not managed to keep his massive Waaagh! unified for long as soon as the Orks hit the ground. Each warboss went after his own objectives and in the end, this might have caused the greenskins victory.

Wiseman
25-08-2005, 16:58
A warboss would have trouble uniting his armies on one planet, galaxy wide he'd have no chance

El_Machinae
25-08-2005, 17:58
Sure, a warboss has trouble organizing. But don't underestimate the ability of a Waagh! to organise (despite the warbosses efforts).

Brusilov
25-08-2005, 19:26
Waaagh! come and go to be honest. IMHO they continue on their momentum until they hit a hard target and then they shatter, because they generally lack a strategy to deal with more heavily fortified worlds and inner squabbling starts as soon as the warlord victories come to an end as each boss thinks he can do better.

The same thing happens with Chaos. The different warlords have their own agenda, this is fine as long as the supreme leader is winning but as soon as he loses, the others abandoned him, concentrating on their own objectives.

Lack of unity will always be the downfall of the enemies of the Imperium, because no matter how much the different branches of the Adeptus Terra squabble among themselves, as soon as an external threat present itself, they form a united and mutually supporting front.

Vosk
25-08-2005, 20:09
Ctan can eventully be killed, tyranids cant, its a never ending swarm

What makes you think the C'tan can really be killed? The only confirmed C'tan "kills" are those inflicted by other C'tan, and even then it does not appear to be a complete kill per se - look at the Outsider, he fed upon his brethren and they still live on inside him (to what degree is questionable though). Even the Talismans of Vaul don't have a confirmed C'tan kill, and they are weapons engineered by a God.

Brusilov
25-08-2005, 22:34
Well on the matter of C'tan eating C'tan, I think the Outside just made a mistake when devouring his brethren because all other C'tan, especially Nightbringer (but Deceiver also and Void Dragon too surely), have eaten other C'tan they're not complete nutcases (if a being of the power of a C'tan can be called a whacko :rolleyes: ). So it was either the sheer number of C'tan or the manner in which they were devoured that drove Outside mad, not C'tan eating in itself.

But then you could argue that the other C'tan have stronger minds and simply managed to subdue the C'tan they devoured. That could be another explanation tbh.

Commander Dante
26-08-2005, 01:12
Humanity's only chance of survival would to give it self over to chaos. Unless the Primarch's return and the Chapters reform into legions and inspire the Imperium there is no other way.

The Eldar on the other hand will flee to the Webway where the Tyranids and Chaos can not reach them. The Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar will be locked in an eternal struggle in the Webway. A few enlightned humans would also be in the Webway same as the Eldar.

An Ork WAAAGH is hard to stop but if a big enough fight sprug up against the Nids the Orks and the Nids would most definitly be fighting for a long time.

The Necrons are still awakenig and when the do it would be a 3 (or 4 depending on whether or not what happens to humainty) struggle.. so matter how look at it there is no winner in the end. each super power will change so than the others will change... That is GW's plan....

o yeah and the Tau ummm....they join the Squats....

Nargrakhan
26-08-2005, 03:08
My vote goes to the Tyranids.

This is a species that hails from another galaxy, and although we know nothing about their origin, if taken to the "worst case" level: the Tyranids have crushed other of galaxies before.

The Imperium's galaxy (so to speak) is only another on a long list... one that has yet to feel "everything" the Tyranids have to muster (the combined absorbed biomass of other galaxies).

Not a pretty picture...

pnweerar
26-08-2005, 15:05
The Imperium's greatest threat is itself. It is so constricting on human freedom that to dissent is to commit heresy - in which you may as well go all the way and join Chaos -- what else could possibly protect you from the wrath of the God Emperor's warriors?

Navin

Gethalorre
27-08-2005, 16:13
This is a species that hails from another galaxy, and although we know nothing about their origin, if taken to the "worst case" level: the Tyranids have crushed other of galaxies before.

Or have they?

Could they be a race fleeing from another galaxy, where the force is strong(or something)? Just thought i'd introduce a nice conspiracy theory...

Imperium: possibly could destroy itself, but not before the other things destroy it.

Eldar/dark eldar: Nope.

Tyranids: See earlier message section.

Chaos: I think the Imperium has developed anti-chaos doctrine too much.

Orks: Hmm... if Ghazzy managed that much (Armageddon) what could a ork with a better grasp of tactics do.

Food for thought.

Drasanil
27-08-2005, 17:06
Eldar/dark eldar: Nope.

Why does every one think the eldar are not a threat? Sure they don't have the numbers to directly topple the imperium but they could probably bring about it's downfall through their manipulations of fate... They could probably be one of the biggest threats if they put their minds to it, simply by manipulating events in their favor which will bring about the ruin of the imperium, I get the impression they just don't do it as of yet because teeming hordes of humans make a great meat shield against chaos, orks, nids and so forth...

As for dark eldar... probably not since they only seem to be concerned with short term goals.

Iracundus
27-08-2005, 17:22
Tyranids still. They are the only ones out there that are looking to extinguish the human race totally.

Even Chaos and the C'tan are not out and out looking for extinction of the human race. They merely want to enslave and turn it to their own ends. In their own ways, they need humans alive in some form. The Chaos gods need souls and worship and champions. The C'tan want a steady stream of tasty chattel. No matter how debased, barbaric, or pitiful a state humanity is reduced to, these groups still need to keep the species going.

Other forces while perhaps capable of causing downfall of the Imperium, are not going to hunt down and extinguish every last human, all except for the Tyranids.

Gethalorre
27-08-2005, 18:38
To don't have to kill every single last human to destroy the Imperium. You just have to kill enough.

Eldar: why would they put their minds to it? Their goal is to keep the Eldar alive, surely that would be better served by killing the Nids?

warmasterbubba
27-08-2005, 19:42
C'Tan, Tau, Tyranids, Orks are nothing compared to Chaos. It is the BIGGEST threat to the Imperium, always has been, always will be.

config
27-08-2005, 20:13
the end of warp or ftl travel

Scythe
27-08-2005, 21:45
Orks: Hmm... if Ghazzy managed that much (Armageddon) what could a ork with a better grasp of tactics do.


Hmm, Ghazzy seems to have reached the peak of Orkdom so far... I don't know if there will ever appear an Ork with hugely better tactics...


C'Tan, Tau, Tyranids, Orks are nothing compared to Chaos. It is the BIGGEST threat to the Imperium, always has been, always will be.

Do you have anything to back that up? Looking at what they have achieved the last 10.000 years, I can't say I'm impressed, concidering the effort put into it by Chaos, unlike other races.

Gethalorre
28-08-2005, 10:36
Are the nids actually looking to extinguish human life? Or are they looking for better food and are just passing through? I'm sorry if this is a bit stupid I haven't read the nid codex.

Scythe
28-08-2005, 11:34
They're not really looking for better food, they just want normal food. Eventually they will move on, but the nid fleet is so vast there won't be much left in the galaxy when they do. Remember nids are drawn to planets with much life (eg food), so it's almost impossible that any planet with a serious population or wide diversity in natural life will be left alone by the nids. They will probably miss some planets, pure by chance, but not much will be left once they passed trough.

Brusilov
29-08-2005, 14:07
One could argue it depends on how the Nids find world teeming with life. If they rely on the Stealers pointing the way to them or stumbling by chance upon such worlds, then many worlds will probably escape their notice, otherwise, if they actually have an independent mean of detecting life (such as the amount of psychic activity emenating from a world) then it is probable most of the galaxy will be scoured of life, provided the Nids are not stopped (and I consider the whole issue is blown out of proportion because it's the race with the latest Codex).

malika
29-08-2005, 14:10
But if we look at the newer background on the Nids we see that the consume the whole planet basicly, not just the lifeforms, but also the atmosphere and other resources (so probably also the metals and other materials)

Scythe
29-08-2005, 14:30
One could argue it depends on how the Nids find world teeming with life. If they rely on the Stealers pointing the way to them or stumbling by chance upon such worlds, then many worlds will probably escape their notice, otherwise, if they actually have an independent mean of detecting life (such as the amount of psychic activity emenating from a world) then it is probable most of the galaxy will be scoured of life, provided the Nids are not stopped (and I consider the whole issue is blown out of proportion because it's the race with the latest Codex).

I highly doubt stealers are the only form of Tyranid victim probing. Even tough they might not be able to detect a valid target from great distance (which we simply don't know), I think most worlds will be visited by some form of Tyranid creature. Remember there are quite some leftovers from what might be earlier small fleets of recognisance missions.

Brusilov
29-08-2005, 14:31
True enough, but it also seems they don't methodically explore every star system in the galaxy, going for those that have a lush flora and fauna, or a high population. This begs the question of how they manage to detect those worlds because Stealers can only take you so far (especially if you're going for uninyhabited planets) and I seriously doubt the existence of an ability to detect life across interstellar distances, except through psychic energy

Scythe
29-08-2005, 14:37
I seem to remeber some fluff that Tyranids tend to make a rough selection based on the type of star in a given system. In other words, planets around a given type A star would be more vulnerable as planets around a type B star. Shall look this up when I get home.

Brusilov
29-08-2005, 14:46
That seems sensible enough, the Hive Mind would know which star is most likely to be bearing life and would thus stir its hive fleet in that direction. It would be based more on statistical insight rather than actual knowledge of whether the system has life-bearing worlds.
This is why the Stealers are such an important part of the Nids' invasion system, because they give a real indication of where life is.

Iracundus
29-08-2005, 16:49
It says the Hive Fleets move based on Genestealer and other vanguard organisms by preference. If there is no strong signal, then they take spectrographic analysis of the nearby stars and select based on the star class, with a preference for G class stars like Earth's Sun. Thus it's known the Hive Fleets prefer to eat "life as we know it". Even if the system were devoid of intelligent life or lifeless entirely, I assume the fleets would still strip it. It may not be as rich a meal but a meal is a meal.

typhus22
30-08-2005, 00:07
well if the stealers cant really infect the necrons theres no point in trying to take a tomb world. guess that makes sense why the nids dont bother with the necrons. on another topic, nids dont reall burn themselves out unless they are wiped out compeletly. if there is still a way to make a digestion pool they can recycle their dead into new troops. theres this part inthe codex that mentions cases of nids fighting nids and the losers corpses are tossed into the pool to make new troops.

Commander Dante
30-08-2005, 06:40
well if the stealers cant really infect the necrons theres no point in trying to take a tomb world. guess that makes sense why the nids dont bother with the necrons. on another topic, nids dont reall burn themselves out unless they are wiped out compeletly. if there is still a way to make a digestion pool they can recycle their dead into new troops. theres this part inthe codex that mentions cases of nids fighting nids and the losers corpses are tossed into the pool to make new troops.

but how would that replenish thier numbers? all it would do would do is bring in fresh troopers not more... unless they way the nids make new troops is so effective that they can make 2 troops out of a single dead one....
has theis been mentioed any where??? i would like to know how much bio matter it would it take make a single gaunt.

Nurglitch_PS
30-08-2005, 08:16
Ah, Tyranids and logic :) Don't go there.

This is a stub, seems realistic when you first look at it, but it will not bear close scrutiny so try to refrain from it: :)
The Tyranids strip the planet of every living thing, not only the bodies. They do the grass, trees, cute little bunnies, rats, cockroaches - all of it. They also recycle (fully) their own dead, so one dead gaunt aproximates one new gaunt.

Venkh
30-08-2005, 12:18
The imperiums greatest problem is its inability to reclaim conquered territory from Nids Orks or Chaos.

Once a world has fallen to one of these enemies it is permenantly contaminated with DNA/Spores etc.

The nids can only be stopped by fleet actions, They need to be found and attacked in deep space. Killing the Norn queen seems to work, you just need to find a way to block the "respawn" signal.

Perhaps talking to the colossus hive fleet would help, my theory is that these are the last inhabitants of the galaxy last consumed by the nids. They might be able to impart some knowlege of nid vunerabilities.

On the subject of the Eldar my theory is that Eldrad will return as part of the conciousness of a reclaimed blackstone fortress, this plus the return of craft world Althansar will give them a bit more bite. However, i dont think this is a threat to the Imperium. (more likely chaos)

Orks will be a constant nagging threat but not a critical one, the Universe will never be free of them but they will never get organised enough to become completely dominant.

The dark eldar may refuse to tidy their bedrooms or come home on time but that is the extent of their threat.

The Necrons are a threat for sure but not in the short/medium term. By the time they really get going the imperium may have found a way of dealing with them.

So on balance i would say that the nids form the greatest threat

Brusilov
30-08-2005, 12:30
I would disagree on several accounts Venkh.

There are several examples of worlds on which the Nids have landed and from which they've been thrown back and exterminated. Ichar IV and Tarsis Ultra spring to mind. Although you're right in saying you need to kill the Norn Queens, Nids landing on the surface of your world is hardly a death sentence if you're well prepared and have serious naval assets.

Another example, with Chaos this time, is Armageddon, half of the hives fell to Chaos during Angron's invasion, nevertheless they are still populated (or in fact repopulated) by servants of the Emperor (but the original population was deported, true enough).

And incidently the Colossus hive fleet was exterminated, please refer to the Codex, p. 25


The last known Colossus vessel was destroyed by orbital defences above Zorastra in 226.M39.

Scythe
30-08-2005, 12:41
Ah, Tyranids and logic :) Don't go there.

This is a stub, seems realistic when you first look at it, but it will not bear close scrutiny so try to refrain from it: :)
The Tyranids strip the planet of every living thing, not only the bodies. They do the grass, trees, cute little bunnies, rats, cockroaches - all of it. They also recycle (fully) their own dead, so one dead gaunt aproximates one new gaunt.

The idea is that scavenger creatures (think rippers) eat anything they come across, including native life and fallen tyranids, swell up to several times their original size by doing so, and then being 'recycled' into a digestion pool, to add the biomass they collected to the fleet, and ready to create new creatures.

Gethalorre
30-08-2005, 18:33
The last known Colossus vessel was destroyed by orbital defences above Zorastra in 226.M39.

And why does everyone think that the Leviathan, Behemoth and Kraken are just the vanguard. What if they're the survivors come to feed on easier prey?

And in UKWD309 there's an article about digestion pools and how if you manage to get in you can blow them up. Who do we know that likes to blow things up? Orks!

Anyway I think that could be a tad discombobulated, i'll reply later when i'm more coherent...

Commander Dante
30-08-2005, 19:24
I would disagree on several accounts Venkh.

There are several examples of worlds on which the Nids have landed and from which they've been thrown back and exterminated. Ichar IV and Tarsis Ultra spring to mind. Although you're right in saying you need to kill the Norn Queens, Nids landing on the surface of your world is hardly a death sentence if you're well prepared and have serious naval assets.

Another example, with Chaos this time, is Armageddon, half of the hives fell to Chaos during Angron's invasion, nevertheless they are still populated (or in fact repopulated) by servants of the Emperor (but the original population was deported, true enough).

And incidently the Colossus hive fleet was exterminated, please refer to the Codex, p. 25

Dont Forget Macragge and more recently Cadia. There also tons of examples of the Imperium liberated worlds from Orks and Chaos the biggest would be the Great Crusade where the Imperium destroyed ancient Chaos Cults and brought the citizens of that the world back into the Humanity's arm's... and During the Great Crusade the Emperor and his armies crushed hundreds of Ork and other Alien Empires...

Scythe
31-08-2005, 11:12
And why does everyone think that the Leviathan, Behemoth and Kraken are just the vanguard. What if they're the survivors come to feed on easier prey?

And in UKWD309 there's an article about digestion pools and how if you manage to get in you can blow them up. Who do we know that likes to blow things up? Orks!

Anyway I think that could be a tad discombobulated, i'll reply later when i'm more coherent...

I don't know how they figure it out, but according to Kryptmans helpers there are a lot singals that these fleets are only vanguards... again I don't know these signals, but it's there somehow.

And if they really are the survivors who come to feed on an easy prey, it would mean there will be even more hell to pay when the race they lost against arrives....

Wiseman
31-08-2005, 11:35
yeh id say when that bigger meaner race comes knocking on the imperiums door, they dont answer

warmasterbubba
01-09-2005, 07:33
...Do you have anything to back that up? Looking at what they have achieved the last 10.000 years, I can't say I'm impressed, concidering the effort put into it by Chaos, unlike other races.

Sure do, just about every book published in the RT or 2nd edition era, before all this C'Tan nonsense.

Gethalorre
01-09-2005, 10:17
Mmm...Big, mean AND GREEN! Because didn't that satellite/probe/thing that got sent out, send back info of Orkoid life? Mega-orks!

Scythe
01-09-2005, 11:30
Sure do, just about every book published in the RT or 2nd edition era, before all this C'Tan nonsense.

I mean territorial wise. Sure they killed (and were killed) a lot. But they haven't really achieved much expansion since they were driven into the eye.

asmodai_dark86
01-09-2005, 15:12
Biggest threat isn't nids. Its the same threat its always been - the enemy within.

Think about it what nearly screwed over the imperium the first time? The heresy. Sure its not as easy to do anymore due to the way the imperiums scrutured but give it enough time and another heresy wouldn't be impossible. Then the remenants would get absorbed into the legions. The maelstorm would then get much larger as it seems to wax and wane with the power of chaos forces and the maelstrom would also likely increase in size - although why chaos forces would then choose to remain in the warp rather then bring the warp to the ruins of the imperium.

Orks would probably linger like roaches. They wont ever be a dominat species but they'll always be there, waiting to puinch something.

That leaves Tau to be eaten by whoever (to small an empire to put up much of a fight against necrons/chaos/nids).

Its mutual destruction. The necrons could probably neutralise chaos but the sheer bulk of chaos followers would likely cripple the hive fleets, which in turn would be eaten up by necrons who would then be too depleted to stave off an eldar attack - after all there not isolated to a single world or system, and having seen all this coming would have scarpered sharpish.

Then it comes down to Orks (who are still around despite several intergalatic holocausts) and Eldar...

Gethalorre
01-09-2005, 20:08
Well, considering there aren't really any primarchs left and the marines are split into chapters, a new heresy would be a whole lot more ineffective...

Inquisitor Engel
01-09-2005, 21:04
That leaves Tau to be eaten by whoever (to small an empire to put up much of a fight against necrons/chaos/nids).

Well, the Tau are in a rather nice place at the moment.

The area where the Tau inhabit is relatively clear of Tomb Worlds (given the map at the back of the Necron Codex) and Tau weapons tend to put Necrons down for good (In game terms, even a basic squad of Fire Warriors can route a Necron Warrior squad with relative ease if it's whole) not to mention all those lovely Rail Guns. ;)

They don't pose a threat to Chaos (yet) and are relatively unknown to the Chaos Gods due to their very small (yet very bright!) warp signature. They're not worth the investment of time the Chaos Gods need and enjoy. That and they're on the other side of the Galaxy to Chaos' main entry...

As for the Nids? The Tau have the ability to mount smaller scale strategic defenses of their worlds, as well as, more than likely, better understanding of the biological aspects of the Tyranid force. The Imperium Faces the tyranid threat from Leviathan at a much LARGER and WIDER scale. Occupying the amount of space the Imperium does means that Leviathan (attacking UP onto the galactic plane) hits far more Imperial worlds than Tau worlds, and the Imperium is largely stretched to combat the foe.

The Tau on the other hand have anonther luxury - Being able to mass forces much faster than the Imperium's slow and ponderous ministorium. ;)

Vosk
02-09-2005, 00:06
Tau weapons tend to put Necrons down for good (In game terms, even a basic squad of Fire Warriors can route a Necron Warrior squad with relative ease if it's whole) not to mention all those lovely Rail Guns. ;)

Are we talking about the same race of Tau? It takes 18 Pulse Rifle shots to down a Necron Warrior permanently. That's 180 shots to permanently destroy even the smallest squad of Necron Warriors...

Those Rail Guns might as well just be Pulse Rifles - the Orb sees to that. Of all the races, Necrons are probably the one that gives Tau the most headaches.

Now I'm a Necron player who at least tries to break the mould (20 bases of Scarabs in every list for starters), but if I come up against a Tau army I cannot help but set up a simple, time tested phalanx and simply advance into their guns for an easy win.



Besides, we have no idea what Tau "essence" tastes like - the C'tan could try it and become hooked! That would be "bad" for the Tau Empire. On the plus side, it would lead to the amusing concept of "junkie" C'tan hooked on Tau essence (I'm sure they could "quit at any time" though, :p).

Scythe
02-09-2005, 10:06
Think about it what nearly screwed over the imperium the first time? The heresy. Sure its not as easy to do anymore due to the way the imperiums scrutured but give it enough time and another heresy wouldn't be impossible. Then the remenants would get absorbed into the legions. The maelstorm would then get much larger as it seems to wax and wane with the power of chaos forces and the maelstrom would also likely increase in size - although why chaos forces would then choose to remain in the warp rather then bring the warp to the ruins of the imperium.


Give it enough time. Unfortunately, it doesn't look that chaos has a lot of time left. The new races (and some ancient ones) will be a huge problem within a few hundred years. It's just all on a way smaller timescale.

Ambull Tau
10-11-2005, 16:23
The squats. Because they're so awful they can add an extra layer of suck to the Imperium.

In seriousness though, the greatest threat to the Imperium? The eldar god of death waking up and laying to rest or bring back the Emperor from the brink. At which point, th Imperium goes utterly bozwonk.

Wraithbored
11-11-2005, 03:45
IMHO the greatest threat to the Imperium is the Ecclesiarchy. Why? They control faith! And faith is the driving force behind the Imperium. The Ecclesiarchy could even have space marines excomunicated should they rise against them. Declaring them heretical traitors. And not even space marines could last long with 0 logistical support and forgeworlds. The guard number in untold bilions. Yes a space marine is a powerful opponent but prevent his bolter a bolt round and his armour a powercell and suddenly the threat is MUCH MUCH smaller. Also without the help of naval yards to repair their fleets, the ships would be worn down and destroyed not to mention be outnumbered by the Imperial Navy.And they have tried a bloud coup before, so they aren't squeaky clean(this is why the use women warriors instead of men nowdays). So I am affraid I have to give the biggest threat rating to our frufru haired Sisters of Battle.

As for nids finding worlds i think they can detect the volume of psychic emanations generated by life on a planet through the warp. Sort of like a shark's incredible sense of smell.

Wraithbored
11-11-2005, 04:00
Because the last time the Ecclesiarchy was used to make a power grab, it worked out so well! They're sure not to expect that sort of thing again, right? Am I right? Eh? :D
Oh just admit I thought of something good! :p :D

Khaine's Messenger
11-11-2005, 04:02
How dare you reply before I had second thoughts and deleted my post. You, sir, are a cad! ;) *takes off bionic hand and slaps wraithbored* Graviton Guns, five paces at triple-dawn! :D

But I stand by my comment. :chrome:

Wraithbored
11-11-2005, 04:06
How dare you reply before I had second thoughts and deleted my post. You, sir, are a cad! ;) *takes off bionic hand and slaps wraithbored* Graviton Guns, five paces at triple-dawn! :D

But I stand by my comment. :chrome:
Quite simply I am a bastard beyond any measure. Also in real life I don't trust the clergy at all. But that's my life out of the 40k fluff(yes it does exists to some degree). Also it seems like people in the Imperium would rather side with their Emperor a.k.a. the faith because they've been terrorised all their lives with what happens should you turn from the emperor's light. And yes they failed at teh coup, but they are still there and they have powerful armies under their command AGAIN.

Oh and btw it's dawn here. Where the Eye are you!?:D