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dwarfhold13
15-08-2011, 04:05
Hey guys, I'm going to start getting together a 2500 point list for next year's tournament circle, and I was thinking about running the Hellebron army.
It's tough to stay in the boundary of at least 'mostly' khaine stuff, but there isn't much room to move around here.
Have any of you tried it before? Here's a brief overview of what I have going as of now:

Hellebron
Cauldron/BSB w/ rune of khaine
3 units of 5 harpies (mainly for meat shields and warmachines)
2 units of 40 WE w/ full command, and one with witchbrew
1 unit of executioners x40 w/ full command
2 hydras

at least the idea is to flank the whole army with the two hydra's and try and make it across the table before getting shot to hell.. the harpies work for a turn or so and the hydra's give something scary to shoot at... a little worried about magic though. but it is an all or nothing list.. and it comes to 2500 even.
thoughts?

sulla
15-08-2011, 04:31
(IMHO)
Not enough cauldrons; you need them for the 5+ ward while advancing.
No shadow lvl4; You are vulnerable to magic and have no mindrazor or enfeebling foe (neccessary to make witches go from 'ok' to 'awesome')
No combat characters; Hellebron won't last more than 2 phases vs r'n'f from my experience.
Only the harpies to deal with war machines, diverters and as 'meat shields'.
Also, you have have 3 huge units. This is problematic on most 8th edition fields where you will be unlikely to advance very easily with more than one horde, usually.

But as you say, it comes in at exactly 2500pts, so give it a go. 3 or 4 games under your belt should give you a feel for them and whether they are too unbalanced or not.

Is the tourney comped?

dwarfhold13
15-08-2011, 05:52
yes there is a comp score.
thanks for the input.. me tired, so i'll read and comprehend in the morning

sulla
15-08-2011, 06:27
Let us know about the tourney comp. Also, head over to druchii.net for more advice about DE.

Haravikk
15-08-2011, 15:55
I came up with a list that I'm working towards, for 2,300 points you can get:
Crone Hellebron
Supreme Sorceress (naked, Shadow)
2 x Cauldrons of Blood (1 Battle Standard Bearer)
Sorceress (Tome of Furion, Shadow)

Everything else as units of Witch Elves; currently favouring one big unit of 30, two of 20, and the rest in smaller, 15 or-so units.

It's not the easiest list to use, but with good magic those units of Witch Elves can be made to destroy everything in their path… sometimes. Good fun though!

Jack of Blades
15-08-2011, 17:18
The more Witch Elves you put into a unit the more inefficient it will be due to having many weak attacks rather than like say Dwarf Hammerers, single strong attacks. I would recommend dropping some WE to make room for a level 4 carrying a Dispel Scroll or something and the Pendant of Khaeleth. Something like:

Hellebron
Level 4
2x Cauldron; BSB

30/20 WE
20 WE
20 WE

30 Executioners

2 Hydras


With what points you have left if any I would add in RCBs and Chariots, both to help soften up enemy hordes enough for your units to destroy them - something which merely adding more Witch Elves to accomplish I don't think is as good. Lowering the enemy's toughness through Shadows should help a lot with getting kills for your RCBs where it's needed.

Tomalock
15-08-2011, 17:18
Right before 8th came out (officially that is, we were using the black box copy), I ran a Hellebrone list and I had a lot of fun with it. There was nothing subtle about it and it either beat peoples faces in or lost horribly. I went the more fluffy route and took all of the related special characters (Hellebrone, Shadowblade, and the executioner's champ) as well as several assassins. I wouldn't take it to a tourny, but man was it fun to play! Hellebrone is a beast, one-shoting stegadons and such. I also enjoyed using Shadowblade to hold a unit in place to negate charge reactions that would otherwise flee from my charges. It proved to be game-winning on several occasions.

My list was basically:

Hellebrone
Shadowblade
Cauldron/BSB
Witches x30 w/ FC
Witches x30 w/ FC
Executioners x40 w/ FC and special champ
Assassin
Assassin

sulla
15-08-2011, 18:56
Something like:

Hellebron
Level 4
2x Cauldron; BSB

30/20 WE
20 WE
20 WE

30 Executioners

2 Hydras


With what points you have left if any I would add in RCBs and Chariots, both to help soften up enemy hordes enough for your units to destroy them - something which merely adding more Witch Elves to accomplish I don't think is as good. Lowering the enemy's toughness through Shadows should help a lot with getting kills for your RCBs where it's needed.1st priority would be a bodyguard unit for the sorceress, then units to protect the witches from diverters.

dwarfhold13
15-08-2011, 19:03
interesting.. how are you guys running the units of 20/30? having used a hammerer unit with dwarfs, i'm not afraid of running the executioners in horde as long as i have about 30/35 of them and a cauldron close for stubborn..
i can see the argument of how anything over 30 WE wouldn't be as effective, but having that many attacks on first round really tends to hurt a lot of stuff.. especially with the buffs from the other cauldron. I'd really like to stick with the theme and not do a chariot and stick with the two hydra's as rare. i don't think assassins would be worth the points, so i almost don't want to bother with them.

Jack of Blades
15-08-2011, 19:38
1st priority would be a bodyguard unit for the sorceress, then units to protect the witches from diverters.

Well at least RCBs on a hill sounds like a fine bodyguard unit to me.

dwarfhold13
16-08-2011, 05:03
alright, i spent a little time today doing the math on this list, and there just isn't enough room to cram everything in there like people say to.
it's hard to fit two cauldrons, crone, and a level 4 in the list and have enough units to do anything.. lord, it's like almost 1000 points of characters!
I can see how lore of shadows is a must as is the cauldron. This is a very tough list to even make and bring everything to be effective.. it has to be an all or none type list unfortunately imo.
you guys don't think that a list made with two big units would be good? like one big unit of witches and one big unit of executioners along with two hydra's and some harpies.. you would be able to fit two cauldrons, one for each unit, and everything would be stubborn 8, but you wouldn't have anywhere to put a level 2 mage.
i just can't imagine how you can fit an effective hand to hand list together with enough shooting to really matter?

sulla
16-08-2011, 08:16
alright, i spent a little time today doing the math on this list, and there just isn't enough room to cram everything in there like people say to.

:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin: And you never wondered why you haven't seen more witch cult lists? It's not because players don't like them; it's because no matter how you build them, there will be a number of glaring weaknesses in the list for a canny foe to exploit.

Haravikk
16-08-2011, 11:22
All these Witch Elf lists seem to have an awful lot of Executioners and Hydras, sound more like Khainite lists to me :p

Pure Witch Elves might be an insane list to use, but when Occam's Mindrazor makes it through there isn't much that can stand in the way, and poison is just great fun :)

dwarfhold13
16-08-2011, 18:22
witch elf/khainite... hand in hand.. it's what i meant anyway... i got really frustrated with this list and decided on a savage orc army for my next theme list... at least i already know it won't work 50% of the time!!!
good ole orks.. i'll still have a spot somewhere that i can finish this cult of khaine army, but it's just not now..
for those of you in the tale of fantasy painters, see you there!
Jon

popisdead
16-08-2011, 20:04
It works if Witch Elves are never in a second round of combat loosing thier hatred.