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Kinstryfe
02-06-2005, 00:30
Greetings all,

Some of you may have read a post buried somewhere in these forums by a friend of mine about how the Heresy would have ended up if the legions had fallen in reverse (i.e. all the loyal legions went traitor, led by the Ultras, and all the traitor legions stayed loyal). Nut that I am, I've been modeling up an Emperor's Children army based around this Alternate Heresy, and given the rules in this past White Dwarf I've decided to model up a squad of Alt-Heresy Deathwatch to accompany them.

That of course brings us to the title. Obviously, if the traitor legions stayed loyal, they eventually led to successor chapters. (Let's say for argument's sake that Alpharius' Codex Astartes recommended it after the Heresy.) Not wanting to be too obvious with the Deathwatch, I've decided to have a Thousand Sons Librarian-Captian leading it, with a couple Alpha Legion members, with the bulk of the other 7 members being from various successor chapters. I'm wondering, what are some probable names, colour schemes, insignia, etc of the various Legions' successors.

I've came up with a few names that seem to be descriptive of each Legion. "Storm Hammers" for Iron Warrions, "Scythes of Barbarus" for Death Guard successors, and "Seeds of Perfection" for Emperor's Children (obsessed with geneseed purity, of course), but I could use a few ideas for good names and colour schemes for other successor chapters.

Especially because knowing me, I'll be modeling up a crusade army any time now to make use of half of these ideas.... :D

~Kinstryfe

Strikerkc
02-06-2005, 02:55
Sons of Propero (1ksons), Lords of Darkness (night lords), Silver Templars (Iron warriors).

Best part is you can go ahead and use the named DA successors, since the half that fell in the "true" universe would have stayed loyal in yours, and done almost the same thing (hunt the fallen) ;). I'm sure it would anoy any DA in your area ;).

Kinstryfe
02-06-2005, 03:56
Thanks!
I also added the Gladiators to my list and painted it up as a test Deathwatch in Mk.2 armour. Three guesses what legion they're from (and any guesses that aren't "world eaters" need to be directed to the nearest index astartes...)

And the best thing is, they'll pass as normal deathwatch, because all the myriad iconography could apply to normal loyalist chapters anyway.

Oh, and about the dark angels:
Elite cadre of marines dedicated to hunting down the forces of chaos?
That doesn't sound at all like a certain group of secretive grey shiny marines based on Titan at all... :D

Then again, a single Dark Angle in with a squad with Death Guard, Alpha Legion, and Thousand Sons iconography would provoke a lot of conversation... :)

~Kinstryfe

Randallw
02-06-2005, 04:23
I don't think Alpharius would write the codex. He thought much differently to Guilliman. Alpharius used guerilla like tactics rather than Guillimans company sized tactical warfare. Think of the battle where the Ultramarines had trouble fighting the Alpha Legion because they used Strike and dissapear tactics. More likely I think Fulgrim would write a book espousing the ideal way to form a chapter and fight. However the Primarch would have to be an expert at warfare, rather than an perfectionist, which means Horus.

Kinstryfe
02-06-2005, 04:41
Alpharius would definately have written a codex. He just wouldn't have written Guilliman's codex. From a fundamental standpoint though, many of Guilliman's decrees held a similar view to Alpharius had.

The breakdown of legions into chapters is fully congruent with Alpharius' beleif that any organization, regardless of size, should function flawlessly at all levels. Alpharius, in my opinion, would likely have embraced such a move or, perhaps more likely, been completely indifferent to it.

Keep in mind also that Alpharius was all about flexibility, while Guilliman was all about the "best" way to handle a situation. According to Insignium Astartes though, the Codex does not exist in any one form, nor do all chapters (even the primogenitor chapters) follow exact copies of the same "codex". In a twist of ultimate irony, there is no one "official" way to deal with each situation. In fact, Alpharius' most famous cunning ploy, that of painting the Alpha Legion's armour Ultramarine Blue, is indirectly advocated by the Codex under the clause that all squad and company markings should be periodically changed to keep the opponent unsure of one's organization.

Lastly, Guilliman's Marine Chapter is organized in a way to provide maximum flexibility, with 4 frontline companies, 2 of tactical squads, 1 of landspeeders, 1 of assault specialists/bikers, and 1 of heavy weaponry, all of which are assigned to combat based on need and availability.

In essence, the biggest difference between Guilliman's and Alpharius' character is that Guilliman favored experimentation until something worked, while Alpharius favored innovation and the evolution of warfare over time, something which even the Ultramarines have reluctantly embraced in the form of their Tyrannic War Veterans. So really, the only likely difference in the Codex, given the two potential authors, is that Guilliman's would stop at chapter 6,000 or so, while Alpharius' would keep on going into new revisions as time went by.

Though I'll concede, Horus could likely do a darned spiffy job of it as well.

~Kinstryfe

malika
02-06-2005, 12:23
Successors:

Word Bearers:
-Faith Bringers
-Sons of Lograr
-Bringers of the Word
-Carriers of Faith
-Red Templars

World Eaters
-Sons of Angron
-World Devourers
-Brothers of the Axe

Alpha Legion:
-Sons of Alpharius
-Hydra Legion
-Alpharians

Death Guard:
-Sons of Mortarion
-Sons of Barbarus
-Deathbringers

Randallw
02-06-2005, 12:35
You have a point. The result is that Chapters in the alternate timeline would behave much differently though. the Doctrines would be different also. Most likely the doctrine of "Take pride in your colours" wouldn't have a place as Alpharius would be against sticking with bright colours when obviously using camouflage is better. Also I don't think Chapters would stick with the same rules after 10,000 years as the Codex itself would likely press the point of not sticking to hard and fast rules. As an example In a Uriel Ventris comic Idaeus says to strafe the enemy near the Ultras and Ventris points out the Codex doesn't have any rules for strafing near your own troops.

Edit: yes, and if I might suggest, The Mortifactors would be a Death Guard descendant :D

Typheron
02-06-2005, 12:37
Oh, and about the dark angels:
Elite cadre of marines dedicated to hunting down the forces of chaos?
That doesn't sound at all like a certain group of secretive grey shiny marines based on Titan at all... :D

Then again, a single Dark Angle in with a squad with Death Guard, Alpha Legion, and Thousand Sons iconography would provoke a lot of conversation... :)

~Kinstryfe

well in the alt herasy the DA on there home world would have stayed loyal and the fleet based DA would have arrived home and fired upon there home world in an attempt to wipe out the loyalists. Not like the grey knights at all as the DA hunt the fallen and not chaos in general. The grey knights are deamon killers while the DA look to only atone for there chapters sins in whatever version fo the 2 realites there in.