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Jarakin
16-08-2011, 11:33
Hi guys,

Some mates are starting up WHFB, one already has a Skaven army, the other is looking into WoC and TK, I think he's leaning to WoC though. The army I like the look of the most are O&G, purely on a style basis. I understand that they're regarded as a lower tier army than the two I'd be facing, so I'm a little concerned that they'll be completely uncompetitive? We'll be playing for fun, but there's obviously always a competitive element to the game, so I'd really prefer not to be blown away easily every game! I'm just a little concerned that this and the fact that both my friends are more experienced in WH could possibly mean a number of one-sided games?

With the above in mind, what should I do? Are there any builds I could try which could be relatively competitive vs. WoC and Skaven (and still fun and not cheesy, if that'd even be possible)? So, what's the best place to start, and what'd be the best models to pick up initially, a bunch of night gobbo's and throw in some blorcs? The current battalion's etc. don't seem great, so I may just try and pick some second hand stuff on ebay/market places. I've also just ordered myself the army book, so hopefully that'll arrive this week.

Any advice would be muchly appreciated guys!

Cheers!

Deon
16-08-2011, 11:43
the night goblin theme, is always good fun,
they may not be that competitve, because of poor leadership stats,
but they have a few good thing go'ing for them,
like fanatics, they are a must have imo, they are very fun to use,
they scare the ... out of your opponents, and they can wreck units,
both his and yours :p
Trow in a shaman or two, some squigs, a mageler squig and some trolls
and you have a very fun army, maby not that competitive,
but you will almost always laugh :D

Chaos Undecided
16-08-2011, 12:03
I think alot of the reason people say they are uncompetitive is down to animosity people dont like the way it can throw a spanner in their battleplan but its always been a part of their background and I think most veteran players just take it in their stride. Personally I prefer the Orcs over the goblins but its really up to you as to what appeals from the list I'd only say that you really need to be using large unit sizes and a battle standard bearer will come in very useful, wouldnt bother with Snots though really and just be prepared for things to go a bit crazy at times and you'll be fine.

Jarakin
16-08-2011, 12:15
Thanks for all the replies guys, I met up with my friends last night to discuss what we're all going to do with the hobby, I think I'm pretty much set on O&G for definite now (I had started to swither toward Vampire Counts - I love the Terrorgheist), I really like the Arachnarok Spider, it just looks amazing. We're going to be working toward 2000 pt lists as my friend that plays skaven has already got his 2000pt army ready, purely so he can fit in his beloved Greyseer/Doom Bell. I'm currently looking around for skull pass auctions and stuff, my brother will quite possibly take up dwarves if I manage to snag myself a box, so it could work as a nice little starting place for models? I'm not sure if the Night goblins are current models though...?

Anyway on to what I like - I love fanatics & Night Goblins, I really like the look of the Nasty Skulkers, but I read that point for point, Night Goblins are a far better choice than normal Goblins, so not sure if there'll ever be a good use for them? I'm a little concerned about animosity, so possibly some Black Ork bosses to control it for my more killy units? I do like the black orcs, but I'm not sure of the finer details seperating them from the savage orcs and/or other units. Cavalry wise, I like the look of the spider riders, I think it'd complement an arachnarok well aesthetically, but again I have no idea of the difference between them and other cavalry choices... Squigs as models in general look fun, but I don't know much about them. I'm also pretty clueless about what's good for magic, and also what's good for shooting in the army, but I do like the idea of killing people from afar! Sorry for being so vague, but my army book's in the post and I don't have a whole heap of stuff to go on yet! :)

Cheers guys!

Chaos Undecided
16-08-2011, 12:41
Problem with using black orc bosses in your elite units to control animosity is that they can tend to make a small hole in said unit whilst literally breaking skulls to restore order in big enough units this may not be a concern but you might regret it in something like a unit of boarboyz that tend to be relatively small.

If you're set on goblin heavy I would say that normal goblins do have an advantage as leaders for your army due to their higher leadership though if you're also looking at a unit of Black Orcs taking a warboss backed up by a bsb somewhere nearby is about as good as you're going to get for O&G leadership wise. Spider riders are decent fast cavalry slower than wolf riders but with poison attacks and able to bypass some terrain features without getting into problems. Squigherds are a bit of a glass cannon unit able to dish out a lot of damage but very vulnerable to it in return not sure about hoppers in the current edition tbh.

Both schools of magic available to O&G have their good points Big Waaagh being a bit more direct in its application than little Waaagh as you'd expect from Orcs I suppose.

Shooting isnt really a strength for O&G in my opinion they arent bad at it as such just nothing special compared to other races dont expect your archers to achieve much but their warmachines work well enough stonethrowers vs large units and doomdivers can do well versus smaller elite units and monsters.

Horace35
16-08-2011, 13:18
I think O&G can compete fine, they just have a tendancy to implode occaisonally (usually when it looks like a nailed on win)
I find them quite fun and interesting to play, they have a lot of variety throughout the army.
A nice unit of Black Orcs is a must, animosity in your other units is just something you have to learn to live with. No doubt it will annoy you at some point as your best laid plans end up standing around doing nothing.

Aluinn
16-08-2011, 14:12
Problem with using black orc bosses in your elite units to control animosity is that they can tend to make a small hole in said unit ...

Note that in 8th Ed. (I can't recall how this worked exactly before), if a character model has a different base size than the unit they join, they're just attached to the side of the front rank rather than replacing any models (unless somehow they can fit perfectly, i.e. 40mm base replacing 4 20mm-based models, or a cavalry base within a unit of 25mm-based models). So, it doesn't really cause issues except for making the unit 25mm wider in this case, although that can be a problem if they're in Horde formation, depending.

Chaos Undecided
16-08-2011, 15:02
By a small hole I was meaning the casaulties he can potentially cause to the unit quelling their animosity :p

Cragum
16-08-2011, 15:47
ive been an orc n gobbo player for years now and i have to say out of all of them i use and play against. they are the funnest army. You can take so many different units that play so well (and random) so no turn is boring for an orc n gobbo player.

Plus the minis are a great collection. With having such a wide range of basic troops you can do converting to high heaven and also have a ton of mainstay units on the battlefield.

oooh and we get mangler squigs and fanatics... thats all i needed to say to be honest!

Jarakin
17-08-2011, 14:46
Thanks for the replies guys, you've all been really helpful!

I've managed to get myself started with a purchase of a bunch of stuff on ebay here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220827648292&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I've made a beginner's list real quick, first one I've done, so it'll be full of holes, I can name one right now - no magic items/talismans/weapons etc., I did it in a hurry earlier as I'm in work, but would appreciate some feedback on the units I've picked as I'll have alot to purchase to bulk out the army after the above ebay purchase!

2000 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army

39 Night Goblins @ 260.0 Pts
Netters; Shield; Spear; Musician

1 Night Goblin Boss @ [10.0] Pts

3 Fanatic @ [75.0] Pts

30 Night Goblins @ 90.0 Pts
Shortbow

10 Forest Goblin Spider Riders @ 130.0 Pts
Spear; Shield

10 Giant Spider @ [0.0] Pts

1 Night Goblin Shaman @ 85.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Little Waagh

1 Savage Orc Great Shaman @ 205.0 Pts
General; Frenzy; Magic Level 4; Big Waagh; Choppa

20 Black Orcs @ 250.0 Pts
Heavy Armour; Standard

29 Savage Big 'Uns @ 375.0 Pts
Frenzy; Choppa; Spear; Warpaint; Shield

1 Savage Orc Boss @ [15.0] Pts

1 Spear Chukka @ 35.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

2 Trolls @ 70.0 Pts

1 Arachnarok Spider @ 290.0 Pts

8 Forest Goblin Crew @ [0.0] Pts
Spear; Shortbow

1 Pump Wagon @ 45.0 Pts

1 Snotling Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Doom Diver @ 80.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

1 Rock Lobber @ 85.0 Pts

3 Crew @ [0.0] Pts

Additional Casting Dice: 0

Additional Dispel Dice: 0

Models in Army: 159

Total Army Cost: 2000.0

Thanks a heap guys. :)