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View Full Version : The new Maneaters - hot or not?



Skarsnik, the Lord
16-08-2011, 19:19
Hi all, I wanted to create a topic about Maneaters as they've been improved in the new book very much. I'd like to discuss about all the different things they can do, and hear your opinions about them.

For those who don't know about the new Maneaters, here's a short sum how they look in this book. They cost 25 Gnoblars, and they can be equipped with brace of handguns, great weapons and maybe some other options (I don't know/remember all of these, but the Cathayan Longswords no longer exist). Also, they can choose to have to special rules for free. There are 8 special rules all in all, and no special rule can be duplicated. The special rules are the "lesser" ones, so no regeneration or such if I recall. Poison, strider, stubborn, sniper and such. The stat line of a Maneater remained same. Also, the Maneaters are special choices now, and they can take command options and even a magical banner.

As the Maneaters are kinda pricey to be a fighting unit, I'd try to take the best out of the special rules. This combination was the one which captured my interest. Maybe 5-6 Maneaters with a standard, Banner of the Eternal Flame and many handguns? They'd take the poison and sniper special rules, too.

Yep, they'd cost many points, but what could they do? They have BS4 and two handguns per dude. Because they are snipers, they can shoot characters from their units. The poison will help the hitting. As the unit can move and fire without worries, they can still try to poison enemy characters even if they're on a long range (multiple shots, long range and the snipe are -3, so BS4 models need 6s' to hit = able to poison things). Also, the flaming banner can burn through regeneration.

Think about all the possibilities!

* You face a Wight King with the regeneration banner in a unit of Grave Guards or Ghouls. Then your six Maneaters shoot the guy holding the banner and cause roughly two poisons. The Wight King can have max 4+ save, so he can take two 6+ saves unless having a great weapon. The fire burn through his regeneration, so it's two wounds in! Quite easy to kill with shooting or close combat (if the bearer is a Vampire, he's dead then). And as the unit doesn't have regeneration, you can freely shoot in with your Scraplaunchers and such.

* You face a Treeman. You need 5+s' to hit and 6+s' to poison. The hits don't really matter, mainly the poisons. When you poison, the Treeman gets a 5+ ward save or lose two wounds per shot (because of the Flammable)!

* You face a Hell Pit, a Varghulf or a Hydra or such monster. Again, you need 5+s' to hit and 6+s' to poison, but mainly the poisons matter (the hits can wound on 5+ though). You get roughly two poisons, no regeneration because of flames (and only a weak armour save). Then you can finish the creature with an Ironblaster.

* You face Trolls or regenerating Ogres (oh dear, please don't bash me because of this... ). Shoot a couple of wounds in, BOOM, no regeneration. Your Ironblaster is free to shoot them and kill one or two creatures.

* You face a hero-level character in a unit of rank & file. Shoot it and cause roughly a couple of poisons - a dead character if he doesn't have a ward save or a very good armour save (or a Dragonbane Gem or a Dragonhelm ). Hero-level casters and BSBs with magical banners are ideal for this.

And so on...

So, what do you think about it? I know, the unit is expensive and a Pit of Shades kill about three Maneater when it hits, but think about it... Removing annoying characters, like Warlock Engineer with a Brass Orb or a regenerating BSB is awesome, and removing regeneration from monsters and units is great, as your war machines like to shoot them anyway.

However, the unit is very expensive. I could afford many Bulls for the price, and some things are easy to negate anyway (regeneration from units is quite easy to take away with our Firebellies).

What do you think about it? Is it just "the cool choice" for bigger battles and fun games or can it be used in a bit more competitive games too? What else Maneater tactics you would use?

I found an another one from the Ogre rumor thread... A horde of scouting Maneaters with poison. :D They can charge on turn 1 if your opponent wants to start (or you make him to start) and cause some horrible damage. But this one is just a cool choice in my opinion, you could afford so many more Bulls at the price and charge on turn 2 or 3.

But anyway, what do you think about the Maneaters? Are you going to use them? If yes, how many, what special rules? What are you going to do with them?

Thanks for reading, remember to leave a comment! ;)

- Cheers, Skarsnik. :yes:

Malorian
16-08-2011, 19:25
They still have the problem of making an elite army even more eltie.

I'm going to have to wait until I see the entire book to really saw, but at this point it's really just a matter of more bodies (and attacks) being more important than flashy abilities and toys.

popisdead
16-08-2011, 20:02
What new Maneaters?

Book isn't out yet.

Confessor_Atol
16-08-2011, 20:43
Fun idea, but maybe too pts. expensive to be viable. Speaking from dwarven experience a scouting fighty unit is great to have. My rangers regularly win me games. I'm thinking 3+ scout and stubborn. Maybe 3+ scout and hate if its available. That way they're not too expensive, and they will attract a lot of Attention.

sulla
16-08-2011, 21:28
All you'd ever shoot at, surely, with sniper and poison, would be enemy lvl4's. You should finish one off in a turn, or 2 at the most. Job done. Paid for. Now they can die gloriously. Or kill the BSB next. ;)

Jack of Blades
16-08-2011, 21:40
All you'd ever shoot at, surely, with sniper and poison, would be enemy lvl4's. You should finish one off in a turn, or 2 at the most. Job done. Paid for. Now they can die gloriously. Or kill the BSB next. ;)

And if you're going to do that you might as well just charge forth and cave its face in, it's not like you want to be hanging back unleashing the harsh language as Ogres anyway :p

Lord Dan
17-08-2011, 03:49
And if you're going to do that you might as well just charge forth and cave its face in, it's not like you want to be hanging back unleashing the harsh language as Ogres anyway :p

Seriously, give them stubborn, some armor, great weapons and send them in.

ihavetoomuchminis
17-08-2011, 07:43
My builds probably would be:

Snipers + Socut + brace: I think that killing the opponent's wizards as soon as possible is important. Death and shadow magic will be a recurred lore to fight ogres. For other armies (like skaven), kill the BSB or the general can be useful too. Scout allows them to be at shorter range and pick the target.

Stubborn + Swiftstride + Great Weapon: Combat beasts with high odds of inflicting 1d3 impact hits each and 4 S7 attacks. Stubborn is useful for combat units.

I don't know about other options. Are you people sure that poisoned attacks will work with shooting?

Vsurma
17-08-2011, 08:21
Very cool idea but I am not sure its a competetive choice.

You need a unit of 6 to get those 2 sniping poisons a turn, so your talking about a unit that costs 320pts once you add the banner and magic banner.
The effect of the unit is indeed 2 poison hits per turn on anything you want.

So in games where there is a good target, yep worth it, in others not so much.
That said they don't exactly suck in CC either and it does sound like a damn fun unit.

Actually I change my mind, most armies will likely have a target for them to shoot at and with move and fire they should be able to choose when they get into combat or at least delay the enemy getting to them so yea, why not.

Most armies will have mages you want to kill, or even unit champs you suspect have magic items etc.

Also enemy heroes on foot are likely to not have great armour saves. Sounds like a fun unit to me.

Vsurma
17-08-2011, 08:29
Seriously, give them stubborn, some armor, great weapons and send them in.

Well, in that case you might as well just use ironguts which are cheaper.

One thing to remember is maneaters have ws4 unless my memory fails me, so against certain targets maneaters will be better than guts.

That said you really want to get some use out of the skills available to them.
With swiftstride they should be able to get to the enemy mages fairly fast.

ihavetoomuchminis
17-08-2011, 08:41
Do Brace of handguns count as 2 hand weapons? That makes 5 attacks for every maneater in CC.

A mix unit with swiftstride and sniper and brace of handguns...could be great, even more if you factor in some magic banner (eternal flame against HPA, trolls, hydras).

I'm liking maneaters more and more....

Von Wibble
17-08-2011, 12:02
Do we know for a fact that their poison will affect shooting and not just combat? Seems more balanced for it to be combat attacks only.

Personally I'd consider scout and stubborn, giving you a unit that will cause the enemy a headache from turn 1.

Entreri Bloodletter
17-08-2011, 17:31
Well the main rule book describes poison attacks as being both ranged and close combat so I don't see why they wouldn't unless it was directly specified. Like for skinks, they only get ranged poison because of the jungle poison rule.

Skarsnik, the Lord
17-08-2011, 20:25
Thank you for replying, everyone!


What new Maneaters?

Book isn't out yet.

Nope, but it's a good thing to start thinking about the new tactics early, isn't it? ;)


All you'd ever shoot at, surely, with sniper and poison, would be enemy lvl4's. You should finish one off in a turn, or 2 at the most. Job done. Paid for. Now they can die gloriously. Or kill the BSB next. ;)

True, this works sometimes, unless the enemy wizard lord carries a huge ward save. Lvl 4 wizards normally carry a ward save, but fortunately not always. If the wizard has a ward save, he/she/it's very 'ard to take out, but BSB:s, support wizards and such are much easier prey for our snipers.


And if you're going to do that you might as well just charge forth and cave its face in, it's not like you want to be hanging back unleashing the harsh language as Ogres anyway :p

Normally this is the best choice, but sometimes the enemy characters are just out of reach. Some of them might fly (Heralds of Tzeentch...), have something which makes them almost invisible in close combat (Van Horstmann's, Potions of Toughness...) or might be just behind some tough blocks (Goblin and Skaven characters). Also, there are some rare characters you don't want to close at all (a Warlock Engineer with the Brass Orb of OP). And, like I said before, the guy holding a regeneration banner is best to shoot away before going into a close combat, unless you have a Firebelly with a Potion of Speed.


Seriously, give them stubborn, some armor, great weapons and send them in.

That's a quite expensive close combat unit, I'd go with Ironguts who are sooo much cheaper. Yep, they have one A and Str less, but it's just three extra attacks and in many cases it doesn't matter do you have a Str 6 or 7.



Are you people sure that poisoned attacks will work with shooting?

Yes they do, the book doesn't say it would only effect the close combat effects, so all of the models' attacks are poisonous.


Very cool idea but I am not sure its a competetive choice.

You need a unit of 6 to get those 2 sniping poisons a turn, so your talking about a unit that costs 320pts once you add the banner and magic banner.
The effect of the unit is indeed 2 poison hits per turn on anything you want.

So in games where there is a good target, yep worth it, in others not so much.
That said they don't exactly suck in CC either and it does sound like a damn fun unit.

Actually I change my mind, most armies will likely have a target for them to shoot at and with move and fire they should be able to choose when they get into combat or at least delay the enemy getting to them so yea, why not.

Most armies will have mages you want to kill, or even unit champs you suspect have magic items etc.

Also enemy heroes on foot are likely to not have great armour saves. Sounds like a fun unit to me.

That's the spirit! :cool:



With swiftstride they should be able to get to the enemy mages fairly fast.

I'd still go with the sniper. The opponent know the Ogres are coming towards him, so naturally he tries to keep the wizards in a safe place where you can't fit with your Ogres - but the poisonous handguns can see almost everywhere.


Do Brace of handguns count as 2 hand weapons? That makes 5 attacks for every maneater in CC.


I'm still not sure do the Maneaters get an extra attack, but it definitely would be great if they did.


Do we know for a fact that their poison will affect shooting and not just combat? Seems more balanced for it to be combat attacks only.



Well the main rule book describes poison attacks as being both ranged and close combat so I don't see why they wouldn't unless it was directly specified. Like for skinks, they only get ranged poison because of the jungle poison rule.

It's poisoned attacks for all attacks, both close combat and shooting. That's why it's so good special rule for models who can both fight in close combat and shoot things.

- Cheers, Skarsnik. :yes:

Lord Dan
17-08-2011, 20:34
That's a quite expensive close combat unit, I'd go with Ironguts who are sooo much cheaper. Yep, they have one A and Str less, but it's just three extra attacks and in many cases it doesn't matter do you have a Str 6 or 7.

I could say the same about it being an expensive shooting unit, and I can promise you they'll do better in combat than they will taking pot shots at characters. I'm pretty sure they have a higher ld and ws over ironguts as well, and stubborn ogres is nothing to laugh at (especially considering the fact that your enemy is pretty much always pulling steadfast on you).

So for ~100 points more you're getting stubborn, 6 extra attacks at +1 S and WS, an extra point of Ld and another special rule of your choice.

Sold.

ihavetoomuchminis
17-08-2011, 21:29
Swiftstride....SWIFTSTRIDE!!!!

Da Black Gobbo
17-08-2011, 23:59
Swiftstride and 3d6 for charge with the new ogre charge rules will make very likely to get 10+ and 1d3 impat hits on the charge, wich will win combats with ease.

Entreri Bloodletter
18-08-2011, 10:30
Yeah i'm very excited about trying several different configurations. The first one will definitely be poison + sniper, and the second one I'm thinking about is a small unit of four maneaters with scout and swiftstride, probably with IF. If my guess is correct then they will have a nice 4+/6+ save in combat(with IF and heavy armor) and be in combat turn 2 at the latest. While not terribly expensive they simply cannot be ignored with the potential for all those impact hits along with those tasty S5 attacks.

While they can be magicked or shot to pieces, it would take a fairly significant amount of shooting ( into the flanks no less, so harder for everyone to hit them ) to eliminate the threat. It also creates a distraction for the main combat blocks and cav to arrive.

Edit: Apparently ME can't have ironfists, so it would probably just be AHW and HA then to keep them cheap

Vsurma
18-08-2011, 11:08
The price of maneaters seems fairly cheap in the new book, well, not surprising seeing as they are 30pts cheaper AND get special rules.

Even comparing with the cost of ironguts in the new book, maneaters are only slightly more expensive, come with an extra ws (big deal), attack, Str AND 2 special rules. Seems a really great deal.

Against most everything an IG will be getting 1.5 hits, a maneater vs ws3 enemies will be getting 2.66 hits, that is a huge improvement in killing power even before you factor in the extra strength and special skills.

Granted your cost per wound is slightly higher of course but it seems a decent tradeoff, I imagine seeing a lot of maneaters in ogre lists.

Jack of Blades
18-08-2011, 13:01
Four with AHW, Scout and Swiftstride. If they actually got another attack on their profile then that's an average of 24 WS5 S5 attacks, 8 impact hits (if they charge 10'' or more, which they on average will on 3D6) and 4 stomps. That unit will pack more hitting power than 8 Trolls, hitting power with a very useful 2 more WS at that. Get these guys to rip through more vulnerable stuff while your main army takes on the toughest units, like hordes of Black Orcs and such.

Vsurma
18-08-2011, 14:25
Four with AHW, Scout and Swiftstride. If they actually got another attack on their profile then that's an average of 24 WS5 S5 attacks, 8 impact hits (if they charge 10'' or more, which they on average will on 3D6) and 4 stomps. That unit will pack more hitting power than 8 Trolls, hitting power with a very useful 2 more WS at that. Get these guys to rip through more vulnerable stuff while your main army takes on the toughest units, like hordes of Black Orcs and such.

They currently have ws4 (which is high for an ogre) not 5.
They have 4 attacks so 5 with AHW, 20 attacks total.
Average roll on 3d6 and pick two highest is 9 iirc, so you will not get d3 impact hits on average but it will occur quite often (maybe a third of the time, anyone want to explain how I could calculate the odds)

Still a great unit but I think you may have overstated their power a tad :)
You can ofcourse make the unit larger to increase their power.

I can see myself running probably 3 units of these guys.

Sniper poison unit of 6 maneaters with pistols to snipe characters and mages

Scout swiftstride unit of 4-8 with AHW or GW to roll up flanks

vanguard stubborn, small unit 1-3, a single unit of 1 with stubborn might save your ass from time to time as it holds up a combat, it just has to survive 1 round of combat.
Vanguard lets it hunt warmachines as well.

A single maneater can also kill an unarmoured mage most of the time with its 4 attacks and stomp.

Jack of Blades
18-08-2011, 14:42
Yes but a poster before that said they would get stat boosts, that's what I based my post on. If those stat boosts aren't true (which wouldn't surprise me, as it would make them almost as good as a Bruiser for less than half the cost) then yeah. Good correction on Swiftstride though, in my haste to come to a positive conclusion I missed that :p

Barry "the blade"
18-08-2011, 22:07
From everything we are hearing so far it does sound like Maneaters will be one of the best units in the book. The one bummer is the new unit size of 3+. It would have been fun to send a single "ninja" maneater scouting:)

Vsurma
19-08-2011, 07:07
I seemed to have missed that unit size increase but I think its cool.

We will have those ogre cavalry guys to rush ahead and their unit size was 1-10.

Man I want this book to come out already. I will need a lot more maneater models...

ihavetoomuchminis
19-08-2011, 11:36
I'm going to spend hours sculpting details in my bulls to convert them in maneaters. GREAT!!

Odin
19-08-2011, 11:51
I think we will be houseruling the Dogs of War rule back in, so probably getting a unit for my Ostermark army.

Can you still mix weapon styles within a unit? I know it's not usually optimum, but I'm not too fussed about that - just want them to look cool.

drear
19-08-2011, 14:00
when i saw the new rules rumours i had jack of blades idea, of them being scouts.
we were already taking a gorger to try hitting their rear units . so for the price of a gorger we can have 2 maneaters.

although the suggestion of just giving them stubborn and making them a biggish unit might be fun.

12 maneaters - stubborn, swiftstride , great weapons and banner of dicipline? stubborn ld 9-10 ogres . at - 600ish points

expensive but terrifying!

ninjaska
21-08-2011, 19:12
Oi,
Ogres can use now Lore of Heavens. So Harmonic Convergence on Maneaters with 'Sniper', could be deadly.

saitani
21-08-2011, 19:49
Thinking of making a unit of 6 with poison, sniper and brace of pistols. Modeled as old british big game hunters with red coats and the hats that they used and at there feet gnoblars painted black with big red lips:P

stashman
24-08-2011, 00:33
6 Maneaters with Scout and Poison and Big Pistols.

Good for every game, and Watchtower scenario - just enter in turn 1 and then shhot from tower 12 shoots, and if lucky pistols will have quick to fire.

antihelten
25-08-2011, 14:17
Average roll on 3d6 and pick two highest is 9 iirc, so you will not get d3 impact hits on average but it will occur quite often (maybe a third of the time, anyone want to explain how I could calculate the odds)

Average roll on 3d6 pick two highest is 8.46, and the chance of rolling 10 or higher is 35.65%.

Average roll on 2d6 is 7, and the chance of rolling 10 or higher is 16.67% (or 1/6 exactly).

So swiftstride gives an average of 1.46 inches extra and approximately twice as big a chance of getting d3 impact hits.

The way to calculate this is by probability math, or a bit easier, using a dice probability calculator like this one: http://anydice.com/

Vsurma
25-08-2011, 17:14
I was just wondering if there is a way to calculate them in my head, a trick or a visualisation method? For example the 2d6 dice is easy to calculate as I can make the following chart:

Top line is for 1 dice, left side line for other dice and numbers in the middle represent the total value of 2d6...e.g rolling a 1+1=2 as seen on the chart

-1--2--3--4--5--6
--------
1-2-3-4-5-6-7
2-3-4-5-6-7-8
3-4-5-6-7-8-9
4-5-6-7-8-9-10
5-6-7-8-9-10-11
6-7-8-9-10-11-12

So I can easily see on the chart that the chance of rolling a 12, or 6+6 only occurs once out of a total of 36 possible outcomes.

This I can see in my head or calculate easily enough but with 3d6? Any trick?

Vsurma
25-08-2011, 17:18
6 Maneaters with Scout and Poison and Big Pistols.

Good for every game, and Watchtower scenario - just enter in turn 1 and then shhot from tower 12 shoots, and if lucky pistols will have quick to fire.

I am not convinced 330pts is worth paying without the sniper, getting 2 poison wounds a turn on a character is nice, for 330pts this seems fine..

Getting 3 wounds on average on RNF models for 330pts...that kinda sucks tbh! Sure they are still maneaters and are great in CC but your taking pistols and poison over say GW and swiftstride, so you are giving away a lot to get those shots...

What are you going to be killing without sniper.

Now firing at enemy mages with little or no armour is what makes these guys shine, or firing at the enemy BSB, with S4 and ap iirc, that won't leave too much of a save for many a BSB.

Granted they are sort of good in the watchtower...sort of, those 3 wounds they put out a turn really isn't all that even if you do get to fire often.

Lord Inquisitor
25-08-2011, 17:35
I'm definitely going to try the new maneaters out. My first army build, which I'm still giggling over, is going to be something like:

25% core
Horde of leadbelchers
6x poison/sniper maneater execution squad
cannon/scraplaunchers

It doesn't leave me a lot of points for characters but it should be fun as anything. Cannons against enemy artillery or beasties, snipers against characters and leaddies ... against whatever! Against combat armies it should be able to put out enough hurt each turn to force their hand and yet have plenty of crumping power when push comes to shove.

isotope99
25-08-2011, 18:04
I was just wondering if there is a way to calculate them in my head, a trick or a visualisation method? For example the 2d6 dice is easy to calculate as I can make the following chart:

Top line is for 1 dice, left side line for other dice and numbers in the middle represent the total value of 2d6...e.g rolling a 1+1=2 as seen on the chart

-1--2--3--4--5--6
--------
1-2-3-4-5-6-7
2-3-4-5-6-7-8
3-4-5-6-7-8-9
4-5-6-7-8-9-10
5-6-7-8-9-10-11
6-7-8-9-10-11-12

So I can easily see on the chart that the chance of rolling a 12, or 6+6 only occurs once out of a total of 36 possible outcomes.

This I can see in my head or calculate easily enough but with 3d6? Any trick?

Should be this for likelihood to roll 10+ on 3D6 (assume that's what you want):

A = 2D6 roll, B=probability of 2D6 roll, C= 3rd die score needed, D= probability of third die score, E= B * D

A B C D E
2 ! 0.028 ! 8+ ! 0.00 ! 0.000

3 ! 0.056 ! 7+ ! 0.00 ! 0.000

4 ! 0.083 ! 6+ ! 0.17 ! 0.014

5 ! 0.111 ! 5+ ! 0.33 ! 0.037

6 ! 0.139 ! 4+ ! 0.50 ! 0.069

7 ! 0.167 ! 3+ ! 0.67 ! 0.111

8 ! 0.139 ! 2+ ! 0.83 ! 0.116

9 0.111 ! 1+ ! 1.00 ! 0.111

10 0.083 ! 0+ ! 1.00 ! 0.083

11 0.056 ! 0+ ! 1.00 ! 0.056

12 0.028 ! 0+ ! 1.00 ! 0.028

TOTAL 62.5%

Mercules
25-08-2011, 18:55
I could say the same about it being an expensive shooting unit, and I can promise you they'll do better in combat than they will taking pot shots at characters. I'm pretty sure they have a higher ld and ws over ironguts as well, and stubborn ogres is nothing to laugh at (especially considering the fact that your enemy is pretty much always pulling steadfast on you).

So for ~100 points more you're getting stubborn, 6 extra attacks at +1 S and WS, an extra point of Ld and another special rule of your choice.

Sold.

Except with GWs you strike last, have To4 and AS of 5+ and a frontage of 120mm. So you do not want to charge many of the "mage bunker" that are out there like a Lvl 4 bunkered in a Swordmaster unit will kill Melee Maneaters before they can strike. WoC can kill Melee Maneaters before they strike.

Lord Dan
25-08-2011, 20:11
Except with GWs you strike last, have To4 and AS of 5+ and a frontage of 120mm. So you do not want to charge many of the "mage bunker" that are out there like a Lvl 4 bunkered in a Swordmaster unit will kill Melee Maneaters before they can strike. WoC can kill Melee Maneaters before they strike.

True.

Or, for a moment, we can assume I'm not an idiot and I'm not going to charge my expensive, lightly armored, low initiative Ogres into the front of a unit of Swordmasters or Chaos warriors totally unsupported.

EDIT: And where did all of this talk about assassinating Lv. 4's come from? It's a cute idea, and I'll jump at the opportunity if it arises, but it's certainly not going to be a tactic I revolve a 350-point unit choice around.

Mercules
25-08-2011, 20:26
True.

Or, for a moment, we can assume I'm not an idiot and I'm not going to charge my expensive, lightly armored, low initiative Ogres into the front of a unit of Swordmasters or Chaos warriors totally unsupported.

EDIT: And where did all of this talk about assassinating Lv. 4's come from? It's a cute idea, and I'll jump at the opportunity if it arises, but it's certainly not going to be a tactic I revolve a 350-point unit choice around.

We could also assume that you were arguing that instead of shooting the wizard you should charge them and I was just pointing out that having handguns means you don't have to charge them(but still can if you have the chance). You know, because you would think twice about charging a nasty unit, which is very typically a bunker for a Wiz.

Oh and for 3 ME with Brace of Handguns is less than 200 points. Probably won't kill a level 4 Wiz even if it doesn't have armor in the first volley, but if it puts a wound or 2 on him it will make him think twice about trying for IF and the accompanying Miscast. The Handguns just give you 2 options. Snipe from range, or charge in and smack him.

Lord Dan
25-08-2011, 20:38
We could also assume that you were arguing that instead of shooting the wizard you should charge them and I was just pointing out that having handguns means you don't have to charge them(but still can if you have the chance). You know, because you would think twice about charging a nasty unit, which is very typically a bunker for a Wiz.

Oh and for 3 ME with Brace of Handguns is less than 200 points. Probably won't kill a level 4 Wiz even if it doesn't have armor in the first volley, but if it puts a wound or 2 on him it will make him think twice about trying for IF and the accompanying Miscast. The Handguns just give you 2 options. Snipe from range, or charge in and smack him.

I just think giving handguns to something that already has a great CC statline is a total waste of points. Those 50 points are paying for all those extra attacks, S, WS, etc. It's like giving a handgun to a chosen chaos warrior, when you could spend the same number of points giving him something to make him even better in CC, rather than just kind of good in both. And remember too that while you have the option to choose between shooting and CC with your setup, you're bound to do way worse in CC than you would giving them great weapons and stubborn.

Truthfully I think there's just too much focus on assassinating Lv. 4 characters. Build your units for combat, outmaneuver your opponent (you're M6, after all!), set up the charges you want, and run them down!

ihavetoomuchminis
25-08-2011, 20:39
To assassinate lvl 4's there are the sabretusks. 2 of them, kamikaze, dead mage.

Mercules
25-08-2011, 20:49
I just think giving handguns to something that already has a great CC statline is a total waste of points. Those 50 points are paying for all those extra attacks, S, WS, etc. It's like giving a handgun to a chosen chaos warrior, when you could spend the same number of points giving him something to make him even better in CC, rather than just kind of good in both. And remember too that while you have the option to choose between shooting and CC with your setup, you're bound to do way worse in CC than you would giving them great weapons and stubborn.

Truthfully I think there's just too much focus on assassinating Lv. 4 characters. Build your units for combat, outmaneuver your opponent (you're M6, after all!), set up the charges you want, and run them down!

The Greatweapon costs 1 point less than Handguns which also add an extra attack in Close combat if all rumors are true. They have great CC stats and can add an attack AND have the ability to Stand and Shoot, Shoot the first turn when they can't charge, shoot things that they can't charge because they are more maneuverable than them(Stupid Eagles and other flying crap) and still be solid in combat with 5 S5 attacks... Or they can strike last with crappy saves and have 4 S7. The second is what cheaper Ironguts are for.

Then again, we DO have the option of mix and match so we could actually take 2 BoH, and 2 GWs and have the GWs sit in the back row of a 2x2 formation.

Lord Dan
25-08-2011, 20:56
Against anything capable of hurting them (like the swordmasters and chaos warriors you mentioned on the last page) they're going to be striking last anyway. I'd rather strike back with S7 hits and have stubborn than to stand&shoot with some poisoned handgun shots. I also don't believe they'd grant +1 attack AND act as a brace of handguns for a mere point more than a great weapon.

Mercules
25-08-2011, 21:07
Against anything capable of hurting them (like the swordmasters and chaos warriors you mentioned on the last page) they're going to be striking last anyway. I'd rather strike back with S7 hits and have stubborn than to stand&shoot with some poisoned handgun shots. I also don't believe they'd grant +1 attack AND act as a brace of handguns for a mere point more than a great weapon.

I never said anything about Poison but that is besides the point. Right now they cost the SAME as a GW option for a ME and do grant +1 Attack and act as 2 ranged shots that are quick to fire. They will in the new book too from everything I've seen.

BTW, Against anything capable of hurting them.... You don't charge. I have the option to shoot them, what options do the GW ME have?

While I agree many people try to force a function out of a unit it is not good for, that is NOT what I am doing here. What I am saying is that Handguns give me an option the GWs lack and what GWs give me is minimally better in close combat.

You don't buy Handguns on ME and then sit back all game and try and use them like a block of HE archers or Empire Handgunners. You buy Handguns on ME, shoot when you can't charge or it is unwise to do so, and beat people over the heads with them when able and prudent.

Vsurma
25-08-2011, 22:21
As far as we know the cost to me seems perfectly fine to be sitting back and shooting...

300pts to effectively put 2 poison wounds with -2 to AS? (that works with poison right?) out on average per turn on a target of my choosing seems ace.

Targets will include
lv4 mage
lv2 mage
BSB
possibly enemy general

Heck given 5-6 turns they would kill a slann mage priest even with his 5 wounds and 4++ ward.

Their CC stats are nice but that doesn't mean you can't use them as shooting, especially when they have such a unique ability as sniper.

How much would it cost to equip empire with enough hochlands to get 2 wounds on the enemy a turn.

Lizardmen have a skink special character that costs over 200pts so it can fire sniper poison blowpipes!

I think these guys can pay themselves off if there are any characters in the enemy army with a 2+ save or lower tbh.

What the sniper poison guys provide the army is a means to snipe who you want, nothing else in the army does so, nothing in most armies do so.

My magic phase will be so much more reliably after I snipe the enemy scroll caddy etc.

Doommasters
26-08-2011, 00:27
Goodnight Teclis! Finally i have an option against that little Op rat haha

Malorian
26-08-2011, 00:42
As far as we know the cost to me seems perfectly fine to be sitting back and shooting...

300pts to effectively put 2 poison wounds with -2 to AS? (that works with poison right?) out on average per turn on a target of my choosing seems ace.

Targets will include
lv4 mage
lv2 mage
BSB
possibly enemy general

Heck given 5-6 turns they would kill a slann mage priest even with his 5 wounds and 4++ ward.

Their CC stats are nice but that doesn't mean you can't use them as shooting, especially when they have such a unique ability as sniper.

How much would it cost to equip empire with enough hochlands to get 2 wounds on the enemy a turn.

Lizardmen have a skink special character that costs over 200pts so it can fire sniper poison blowpipes!

I think these guys can pay themselves off if there are any characters in the enemy army with a 2+ save or lower tbh.

What the sniper poison guys provide the army is a means to snipe who you want, nothing else in the army does so, nothing in most armies do so.

My magic phase will be so much more reliably after I snipe the enemy scroll caddy etc.

I think they will do ok against anyone who doesn't know what they are doing, much like how cannons work great against players how leave their casters out of units.

Once you do this once to a person they will run a bunker behind their lines (if they aren't already) and/or send a non-character holding unit over to deal with those expensive maneaters right away.

undeadcatd
26-08-2011, 03:22
I think if people hide their character ,they also lose LOS and some character's effect (A fighting character hiding behide the line?)

it's a tactic , so the point is "do they worth it ? "
300 -350 points sniper maneater , Expensive? yes. Effective ?I think so

Lord Inquisitor
26-08-2011, 05:43
A maneater squad with sniper and poison would still be useful, even if only forcing the opponent to hide important characters. Others, like Grey Seers on Bells or similar, simply can't hide. And even then you can snipe champions or secondary targets of opportunity - or just use the unit as a unit of WS4, 5 attacks, S5, poisoned attack shock troops?

I think they're certainly something to try out. I'm even thinking about conversion opportunities, Maneaters with sniper rifles or something. :evilgrin:

sulla
26-08-2011, 05:50
I think they will do ok against anyone who doesn't know what they are doing, much like how cannons work great against players how leave their casters out of units.

Once you do this once to a person they will run a bunker behind their lines (if they aren't already) and/or send a non-character holding unit over to deal with those expensive maneaters right away.Unlike a cannon, the unit is resistant to most war machine hunters. Being able to hurt characters out of combat, it will need to be dealt with in some fashion though. Sounds like a good unit to me.

muse1c
26-08-2011, 09:23
I'm attending a Lustria weekend with Empire soon (Maneaters as DoW :D ), so I'm definitely taking some, if all the rumours are correct. A special character already gives all hand weapons in the army Poison :) so I'm thinking of running a small unit of 3 with Brace. with maybe Swiftstride and Stubborn to either tie up units or hit hard on flank charges.

The nature of the campaign also means that there aren't too many heavy infantry ie. WoC have fewer Warriors & Chosen so 15 attacks at Str 5 & 3 Stomps, plus Swiftstride increasing the chances of a big charge working (I gather that 'Bull Charge' does more hits the further you charge?)
All in all I can see Maneaters appearing a lot more in lists, now to just get hold of some of those Mournfang handgun arms...

Vsurma
26-08-2011, 11:25
Yea I am definitely running a unit to see how it fairs, I think if the enemy is running all his characters in a hidden bunker then great, they did their job before the game even started.

Also they are ogres, so they are tall, won't they have LOS to the secondary bunker anyway!

The way I see it if I can snipe a character in the first 2 turns then throw them into CC they will have been worth it.

I still plan to run a unit with swiftstride and scout as well.
The units cost though really makes them need some magic support in CC, especially if they run GWs.

Main problem will be fitting them all in.

In 2400 with 800 or so points in characters I am not sure how much I can fit in.

12 ME would cost me half my available points for the army.... Might have to just run 1 unit to start, in which case I am going with the pistols.

Slayerthane
26-08-2011, 16:22
If maneaters can take full command, I may end up taking them instead of ironguts....stubborn, access to a magic standard, WS4, are already enough of a draw for me. I imagine they will also be toughness 5, and have that additional attack.

Mercules
26-08-2011, 16:54
If maneaters can take full command, I may end up taking them instead of ironguts....stubborn, access to a magic standard, WS4, are already enough of a draw for me. I imagine they will also be toughness 5, and have that additional attack.

Toughness 4, 3 wounds, and can have HvArmour. So basically as hard to kill as an IG. Their WS isn't even defensive not being high enough.

Lord Inquisitor
26-08-2011, 21:31
Toughness 4, 3 wounds, and can have HvArmour. So basically as hard to kill as an IG. Their WS isn't even defensive not being high enough.
Well, it's useful against other WS4 troops. Hitting on 4's rather than 3's.

But yeah, they're expensive, upgraded ironguts for most intents and purposes.

Vsurma
26-08-2011, 22:59
They actually kill ws3 enemies very well. Hitting on 3s instead of 4s with their added attacks.

The way I see it for their cost maneaters will do more damage than bulls/guts vs ws3 enemies so this can be important. They do lack the survivability that the extra wounds gives from cheaper troops.

Against ws4 enemies they die less, but with their extra cost I am not sure you are really likely to lose any less.

As with any expensive unit, they do much better with some magic to keep them alive. With just HA and T4 and with a price of 18pts per wound they are an expensive unit. So casting some buffs on this unit will go a long way.

The nice thing about S5 is that against most things they are already wounding on 2+ or 3+ with just their HWs, if you need a buff then you can cast +1S from the ogre/death/beast lores and your all set.

Mercules
27-08-2011, 02:39
As I have stated I will probably run them with the Handgun(s). Either single shot or double it looks like they will get an extra attack from them. Probably 3 or 4 in a single rank so that I get all 15-20 swings. With Scout and Stubborn I can always hope some fool tries a denied flank on me so I can place them in a manner that lets me threaten my opponent's flank. If things don't look good for a Charge then they shoot, if they get a solid charge target they rush in and smack it. With Init 3 they won't be striking before very many things, but against GW troops they might just gain an advantage as long as I don't do something stupid like charge GW Marauder's of Khorne in the front.

If I have to place them in a more frontal position I can use them to threaten things that would normally threaten my flanks or enemy Characters. Even without Sniper I can charge them in and even 1 might kill off a character, with no Champ they can't challenge me to avoid it.

I think they are very viable and I can't wait to see what creative uses myself and others find for them.

Barry "the blade"
27-08-2011, 05:26
I think I'll try them in units of four to start with. If ironfist had been an option maybe I would have given bigger units a try, but with out it I just think they are to costly and fragile to run as a stand alone unit.

So a unit of 4 with brace of handguns. I'll bounce back and fourth on sniper+poison, or swiftstride+scout. Either way it will be run as a support unit, and rarely placed in one on one fights.

Kay
30-08-2011, 21:33
The only plausible use, regarding the points cost of this unir would be sniping teclis, mannfred, and a couple of other characters, besides , make
them cc

Tzeentch Lover
30-08-2011, 22:09
Swiftstride is definably going to be the goto ability for combat Maneaters. Rolling 3 dice and using the two highest is almost a sure shot at getting the magical 10+ on the dice to turn the bull charge from 1 impact hit to "chugga-chugga-chugga-POW!" D3 impact hits.

Vsurma
30-08-2011, 22:33
Swiftstride is definably going to be the goto ability for combat Maneaters. Rolling 3 dice and using the two highest is almost a sure shot at getting the magical 10+ on the dice to turn the bull charge from 1 impact hit to "chugga-chugga-chugga-POW!" D3 impact hits.

Math says it will happen 1/3 times but its still nice. That said it only adds 3 impact hits on average to the typical unit, nice but I think the main advantage is in actually making sure you get the charge in the first place.

Atm it very much seems like the two popular builds will be dual brace and poison and swift+scout.

I don't think you need to be targetting teclis to get the most out of your unit.

the 6 man 300 odd point units with dual poison guns puts out an average of 2 hits per turn at long range, using multiple shot and snipe.

2 S4 ap hits will do plenty against many a mage/bsb/low armour lord.
The range is fairly good too with the ogre speed and the range of the gun.

How often are all the enemy characters going to be either over 30" away or with good armour/ward saves?!? They still come with plenty of S5 attacks so there is nothing stopping you from using them in CC, they even have poison there.

Your just trading your deployment advantage for the snipe ability.

You can even run both if your really into maneaters.

isanti13
31-08-2011, 01:00
I used the new book in a test game last weekend and ran a horde of maneaters in my army. Expensive as all hell but they bring a new meaning to the term "deathstar". I was able to charge, and destroy full daemon units in 1 turn and basically nothing could stop them. However, the rest of the army was to slow to keep up and got picked off which kept the game a tie. Also the fact that they are initiative 3 gives you a HUGE boost against stuff like savage orc big uns and a few other units which might ahve a chance of putting a dent in your bus.

jtrowell
31-08-2011, 11:35
Note that if you go the 6 poisoned ME sniper route, it will cost more than 300 points, as the brace of handguns is not cheap to add.

Vsurma
31-08-2011, 14:02
Good point, the other weapons do cost some also but yea it does increase their cost significantly.

Gaargod
31-08-2011, 14:42
Someone pointed out the rather amusing idea of taking standard + Banner of the Eternal Flame on the 6 sniper/poison handgun MEs. All told, that's probably around the 350pts mark.

However... what a useful unit! You can remove those pesky regen saves on hydras/aboms/etc and really put a dent in the regen deathsars.

Saying that, they do become a little bit fail versus dragonhelm/dragonbane gem carrying characters.

GodlessM
31-08-2011, 14:52
Oi,
Ogres can use now Lore of Heavens. So Harmonic Convergence on Maneaters with 'Sniper', could be deadly.

How could it be deadly? Sniper allows them to pick out a specific model in a unit to shoot at and suffer a -1 to hit penalty. Harmonic Convergence gives the enemy a -1 to hit penalty against the Maneaters if you cast it on them. They don't combo up at all.


Note that if you go the 6 poisoned ME sniper route, it will cost more than 300 points, as the brace of handguns is not cheap to add.

And it wouldn't be particularly great. They would have to be within charge range to be in range with the guns to start. Second it will be 5's to hit. So they hit 4 on average, 2 of which are auto-wound, they do one more from the two hits, and most characters can easily save those.

herohammer
31-08-2011, 14:59
How could it be deadly? Sniper allows them to pick out a specific model in a unit to shoot at and suffer a -1 to hit penalty. Harmonic Convergence gives the enemy a -1 to hit penalty against the Maneaters if you cast it on them. They don't combo up at all.
.harmonic convergence is the one where you reroll 1s to hit and wound. the -1 to hit is called like iceshard blizzard or something.

Mercules
31-08-2011, 15:55
And it wouldn't be particularly great. They would have to be within charge range to be in range with the guns to start. 24" range?



Second it will be 5's to hit. So they hit 4 on average, 2 of which are auto-wound, they do one more from the two hits, and most characters can easily save those. Book of Hoeth Archmage?

Stymie Jackson
31-08-2011, 18:04
Running them like upgraded Ironguts seems to be a waste.

Scouting with swiftstride or stubborn, in smaller units. Gives Ogres something now to threaten war machines with. Gives the enemy more to worry about. Throws off planning. Do I shoot the big blocks charging across the map, or the unit that is going to T1/2 charge me, depending on who goes first. Do I turn to face them, or do I turn to face the larger bull/mournfang/irongut unit coming at me?

Big price drop makes them finally feasible. Awesome looking models, always some of my favorite (I put maneater models in my dwarf units as filler I love 'em so much).

I wouldn't use em to snipe. 3-4 of them, with pistols anyway. They can shoot at least if they go first (since they cannot charge in that case) and stand and shoot. Can replace gorgers role more reliably I think in simply threatening gunlines, artillery, flanks, etc. But they aren't snipers mainly (still can try to take out Hoeth mages of course) but rather fill the 'in your face early' roll Ogres need against many armies.

Scout baby. Scout. Don't care whatever skill you take otherwise but scouting hard hitting units rock.

Vsurma
31-08-2011, 20:09
There seems to be a fair bit of disagreement on how great paying 370-400pts (latter with fire banner) in order to get 2-3 S4 ap hits on a character.

Few things though, with 24" range they aren't in charge range too easily, they can be at 22" and still have the rear rank fire so few things can charge you right away. They can charge you later but if they come too close you might just charge them with your super ogre stats, impact hits and stomps etc.

Or you might have a single sabretusk redirect to buy them time etc.

People have different play styles. I think they will do great at reducing enemy mages so to give you some magic dominance (with ogres!) and for this reason they will be worth it.

I find more often than not my opponent has (or at least had in the past book and I don't see this changing) the edge when it came to magic and shooting.

As such they were rarely in a hurry to get into CC so even with M6 there was a good chance combat would not happen until turn 3.

Unless something is changing here and for most of the army it likely won't then I can take my 400pt maneater unit and get 2 good rounds of shooting in before they charge in on turn 3, the same turn as everything else.

I think this will be the typical scenario. 2 turns of shooting will likely let me take out 1 lord level or maybe 2 hero level mages if things go well.

Remember they are move and fire so their effective range is 30" (though iirc they do suffer from long range along with their snipe and multiple shots so will be hitting on 6s most of the time)

They do pay a very high price per shot/hit compared to most other things. You end up paying 60pts for 2 S4 ap shots, dwarves get this for what 30pts? half price. But if your shooting the same targets your doing it wrong, you have snipe.....snipe something good.

Imo the basic pistol versions are pointless, whyy??? are you paying 60pts for a dude that can fire once or twice when belchers cost half the price and fire d6 shots. If your going to carry pistols then you want to make sure they know how to snipe imo.

Lord Inquisitor
31-08-2011, 20:15
The Flaming banner seems a waste on these guys at best and counterproductive at worst - the 2+ wards vs fire are very common on characters these days.

herohammer
31-08-2011, 22:16
The Flaming banner seems a waste on these guys at best and counterproductive at worst - the 2+ wards vs fire are very common on characters these days.

indeed i think that most of the time it would be better to run swiftness or ranger's standard if you are going the shooty route.

Unless you have loads of LBs and want to use the maneaters to strip regen from hydras and HPAs before lighting them up with the cannons I have decided the fire isnt that great either.

It would be funny against TK though.

If you are running the poisonous sniper guys you want them mobile so that they can get around the field shooting stuff and charging smaller units that they can eliminate on their own like fast cav, warmachines, flyers, etc. The last thing you want is for a 400pt unit of character/warmachine hunters to get charged by chaos knights and slaughtered.

They are like fat and tall thunderers; really good at shooting things dead and pretty nice in cc, but really expensive in pts.

Flaming banner i think would combo better with scout/poison to eliminate enemy monsters turn one with combined shooting.

GodlessM
02-09-2011, 15:19
harmonic convergence is the one where you reroll 1s to hit and wound. the -1 to hit is called like iceshard blizzard or something.

Still not particularly deadly. I'd take 3 at most with the Guns, Poison and the Flaming Banner just to try take Regen. off Hydras and Aboms so the Ironblasters can have their way with them.

As for people saying 6 with Poison and Sniper can easily take out enemy Mages, it takes 27 shots to take out the typical Level 4 (4+ ward), which means you need 14 Maneaters, or else 3 rounds of shooting. If this is a Life Mage then good luck as they will just heal it back. Same with Vampires.

This set-up is a gimmick, nothing more. It's like when TK came out and everyone went on about how 18 Ushabti with bows would be insanely good, but yet months on how many tournament armies are using them? To my knowledge, 0%.

Lord Inquisitor
02-09-2011, 17:11
But 6 maneaters with poison snipers can take out a BSB with a magic banner in one round of shooting. It can take out a Grey Seer on a bell - it might take 3 rounds of shooting but it'll be a massive MASSIVE effect on the game if you can snipe the skaven general. Plenty of low-level heroes that have a force amplifier effect like Empire priests or Khorne heralds can be sniped out and often aren't insanely well protected. Even unit champions can sometimes be worth sniping at, there are a few that carry things like the chosen favour of the gods or whatnot - kill them and that can be a big effect.

I don't think it'll be a gimmick. I think it'll be reserved for more gunline ogre armies, but I don't think it's too many points ... considering you still get a unit of 6ME with 5 poisoned attacks each out of the deal too.

Mercules
02-09-2011, 17:24
I often see Lvl 2 wizards running around with no more protection than the unit they are bunkered in. Instead people give them an Arcane item to help with casting. The "Book of Hoeth" HE Archmage also has no protection available and I've run into him more than a few times. The thought is, "Death magic can hurt me... but I can dispel that."

Lord Inquisitor
02-09-2011, 17:42
And there are plenty of other uses at least for the handguns and poison... Eagles, chariots, monsters, etc.

Jericho
02-09-2011, 21:42
I used to run Maneaters w/ Handguns in my Dogs of War all the time. Even as solos they were fantastic little buggers that could fulfill any number of roles. Now that they cost (significantly) less and have some very interesting tricks up their sleeves, I think they will be a staple in a lot of lists. Realistically they can do anything you need them to do, especially if you convert them to have swappable gutplates with holstered "pistols". Hard to go wrong with any sensible combination of abilities, including Sniper/Poison/Flaming.

WarmbloodedLizard
02-09-2011, 21:58
most likely I will run mine with dual handguns, poison and either swift stride or scout.
they will be very potent in both close combat and shooting, though i still feel they are not very survivable for their cost.

and I agree with GodlessM that the poison snipers are just a gimmick. without multi shot, they just don't do enough for their high cost.

Lord Dan
03-09-2011, 05:54
But 6 maneaters with poison snipers can take out a BSB with a magic banner in one round of shooting. It can take out a Grey Seer on a bell - it might take 3 rounds of shooting but it'll be a massive MASSIVE effect on the game if you can snipe the skaven general. Plenty of low-level heroes that have a force amplifier effect like Empire priests or Khorne heralds can be sniped out and often aren't insanely well protected. Even unit champions can sometimes be worth sniping at, there are a few that carry things like the chosen favour of the gods or whatnot - kill them and that can be a big effect.

I don't think it'll be a gimmick. I think it'll be reserved for more gunline ogre armies, but I don't think it's too many points ... considering you still get a unit of 6ME with 5 poisoned attacks each out of the deal too.
I have to agree with GodlessM. The idea that your opponent is going to sit there letting you blast away at him for 3 turns seems silly.

Lord Inquisitor
03-09-2011, 06:09
Perhaps. They're pretty good at it and can hang back and shoot or scout around the flanks. Difficult to deal with quickly I feel - at least, without ignoring the real threats in the ogre army...

I tried them out today for the first time and was impressed. Handguns are totally worth the points - 5S5 attacks each is brutal. I tried out poison/sniper and poison was amazing although I didn't have any targets to snipe. The fact that poison works for shooting and combat is crazy for a unit that in 3x2 formation can put out 12 shots or 25 combat attacks. Scout/stubborn is also pretty good although I think the +1 Ld banner is a must.

decker_cky
03-09-2011, 07:03
A thought on the new maneaters with a non-shooting build - take additional handweapons on all of them aside from one model which gets a great weapon. A block of 6 would still be quite affordable, and the GW would be the last to get removed, so you'd have 4 S7 attacks to make the unit really dangerous, on top of all the S5 attacks from rank and file. Add on scout/vanguard and stubborn/poison/swiftstride and that's a terrifying unit for about 60 pts more than the equivalent irongut unit.

goinggreen
03-09-2011, 07:47
Enter the Thundertusk.... moving this guy into range of a mage bunker unit then charging with maneaters with GW could be the soloution to this issue. Or with all the big guns now in the list some softening with a scraplauncher will help too. I have to agree that a 350 pt unit designed to possibly take out a lvl 4 wizard is not my style of play.

minionboy
04-09-2011, 08:41
I just played a few games with a unit that is Swiftstride and Stubborn, it was pretty amazing. The shooty maneaters seem nice, but these are definitely pretty good too.

drear
04-09-2011, 08:50
i think theres a good reason trappers were made a unit upgrade. its so we'd see maneaters as our flankers and scouts.

3 maneaters with xhw with itp and scout will do a fine job of hunting about warmachines.
and afterwards hit some flanks!

Asuryan's Spear
05-09-2011, 10:04
I accept the concept. it would be really cool to have them rove around taking out enemy characters but to be honest i feel they are more useful in combat. your paying around 62 points a model and are effectively giving up 4 strength 5 attacks for 2 strength 4 which hit on 5s realistically. plus you wont get many turns of shooting because keeping them out of combat makes them prime targets for magic and shooting come turn two when practically everything else is in combat

ihavetoomuchminis
05-09-2011, 11:36
And for shooty unit, it's better to take leadbelchers than maneaters with pistols. Without the multiple shots modifier in leadbelchers, it's like having them with BS4, they shoot more, and are cheaper. Shooting maneaters are only worth with 1 pistol and sniper+vanguard, for character assassination. ANd i prefer a gorger for doing this.

Am i the only one who thinks that gorgers are very good? With unbreakable and their stats, a single one can hold an entire unit for 2 turns (and if buffed with regen or +1T, or if the opponent fails its fear test, even more), while killing any character in the unit with his killing blow.

Asuryan's Spear
05-09-2011, 12:03
i think gorgers dont really the prestige you expect because they are a small unit and dont have the attacks to beat a static res of a unit. better to leave them to war machine hunting in my experience

N1AK
05-09-2011, 12:29
There does seem to be a bit of an internet phenomenon which requires that someone always takes the counter-position to an argument. I can see why people might not think poison/sniper/handgun man eaters are OMGWTF broken but to make out that they are a poor choice is mind boggling.

There are so many armies out there which this combo will work well against. For all the others the unit is still a unit of 6 Maneaters! Against a player who doesn't know what's coming this combo is great, a player who recognises it can make some choices to try and limit it. However hiding characters to avoid the shots or mean the Ogre needs 7+ isn't easy, especially without hindering your game plan.

decker_cky
05-09-2011, 16:53
Something interesting you can do with maneaters is shoot a different champion with each model in a unit. Could be a good way to set up challenges you want with a tyrant to remove key characters.

Lord Inquisitor
05-09-2011, 17:23
Hmm. Dead useful against things like Warriors that have to declare a challenge.

Jericho
05-09-2011, 18:56
That's a very good point as well, you don't have to spam shots at the same target. Share the love :D

Anyway, I think Swiftstride could be the dark horse of the Been There, Done That list. Much better chances of getting your D3 impact hits :D Having a smaller unit do the Scout ahead type work and having a bigger unit for a decent chance at the extra impact hits could be fun. Not failing a crucial charge with your big, expensive unit is nice too ;)

Lord Inquisitor
05-09-2011, 21:01
Swiftstride is indeed interesting. Swiftstride and poison perhaps?

I'm nervous about any maneaters leaving home without Stubborn though.

I think I'm going to try Scout, Stubborn and +1Ld banner for a few games and see how it goes.

decker_cky
05-09-2011, 22:02
I was thinking +1 MV banner is a natural choice for a shooting unit if you forgo the flaming banner. Poison is virtually a no-brainer for shooting, along with scout, vanguard or sniper.

For non-shooty, there's a lot more options available for the skills.

If you go stubborn, banner of discipline seems like a natural fit. Stubborn, scout with banner of discipline is going to be popular IMO.

fruitystu
05-09-2011, 22:05
Me, I'm going to experiment with Scout and Vanguard. In amongst the enemy, turn one, even though you can't charge. With any luck, they'll attract some shooting (though careful positioning could well rule out cannon fire!), and almost certainly force your opponent to waste movement phases he can ill afford redressing to meet this sudden threat.

Vsurma
06-09-2011, 07:10
I accept the concept. it would be really cool to have them rove around taking out enemy characters but to be honest i feel they are more useful in combat. your paying around 62 points a model and are effectively giving up 4 strength 5 attacks for 2 strength 4 which hit on 5s realistically. plus you wont get many turns of shooting because keeping them out of combat makes them prime targets for magic and shooting come turn two when practically everything else is in combat

The way I see it your only in combat on turn 2 if the enemy wants you to be, if they have better magic/shooting than you which is of course common since ogres really don't do much damage with shooting or magic. In this case you will have 24-30" of ground to cover which will mean a turn 3 charge.

In this case the maneaters with poison/sniper get 2-3 turns of shooting before charging in. Depending on how you use them you may or may not charge in a turn later. They are still maneaters, they still have 4-5 attacks each, they even have poison in CC.

The only real difference here is that you are losing your GWs/or ahw (did pistols give the extra attack?) and perhaps /stubbornswiftstride or another skilll in exchange for those sniper shots.

Is it worth it? that depends, if I charge in a turn later but on the way I take out a lv4 mage then for me it is worth it. If I take out a khorne herald before my units charge those bloodletters then yea its worth it.

My main concern with these guys is that in order to fire you do indeed have to move slower since they can't march and fire last I checked.

So while everyone else is moving 12" + 12" (or whatever they deem necessary on the 2nd turn) maneaters will be moving 6" + 6" + 6" and thus charging on turn 4 when everyone else charges turn 3. That is a price you pay for the guns in addition to the loss of CC gear.

The moving banner idea is pretty interesting for the poison/sniper squad for sure if your not going flaming.

Can you scout and vanguard? That could be a fairly interesting one, set yourself up for a rear charge while another unit hits the front.

Barry "the blade"
06-09-2011, 08:16
The more I think about it the stubborn+ scout+ standard of discipline as suggested earlier sounds like a winner. A Ld 9 stubborn unit is great in a lowish Ld army. Add to that they are scouting! IF you can set them up for a flank charge they should be able to hold up an enemy unit for a few rounds. I'd run it as a unit of 4, and expect them to be destroyed every game while dealing out a good bit of pain themselves.

This just seems like it could be such a disruptive unit. I really like that there are so many fun combo ideas for Maneaters. Are they a great unit? Time will tell. Do they look to be a fun, and interesting unit? Absolutely yes! (in my opinion)

Now a bit off topic... The special choices I'd like to run I'd like to mix it up a bit from game to game. I like the idea of gorgers, though not the models so much. I know they aren't the best option on paper, but I like em. That said, what do you think of using river trolls models as counts as?

Thalenchar
06-09-2011, 08:43
Right now I'm trying out a large(ish) unit of 6 with Scout and Stubborn. It's really expensive, but being able to put down a stubborn unit of elite Ogres in your opponent's deployment zone (or close by, depending on his deployment, obviously) is a real pain in the neck for him.
I also give the unit pistols so that they are able to do some damage if I get first turn (and can't charge) or for a fairly decent S&S attack for when I get charged. Like I said, it's really expensive, but I have to admit I'm liking it a lot :p

ihavetoomuchminis
07-09-2011, 11:02
And one of the greatest things about stubborn, is that you can put your unit in a wood and keep stubborn, while the opponent can't benefit from steadfast in the wood.

decker_cky
07-09-2011, 15:13
And one of the greatest things about stubborn, is that you can put your unit in a wood and keep stubborn, while the opponent can't benefit from steadfast in the wood.

In the last book, I had a few games where I was able to take out a block of 6 bulls with a heavy chariot charge because they were in woods. A stubborn block or some combat skirmishers are important for avoiding that problem.

Acheldama82
07-09-2011, 19:06
6x Maneaters
Full command, +1 D magical banner
x2ogre pistol
Ha
Stubborn - Poison.

Voss
07-09-2011, 19:21
Swiftstride is indeed interesting. Swiftstride and poison perhaps?

I'm nervous about any maneaters leaving home without Stubborn though.

I think I'm going to try Scout, Stubborn and +1Ld banner for a few games and see how it goes.

Stubborn and swiftstride strikes me as a potential winner, the only problem is stubborn can be a waste if the unit is going to be winning fights. I'm not entirely sold on the maneaters as a shooting unit- the ws, s and attack increase makes me want to focus on melee attacks, and the ogre list has quite a lot of shooting in the special and rare slots.


I do like that the unit has a lot of potential in different roles with lots of options. A real customizable unit with a lot of options without being overpowered.

Vsurma
07-09-2011, 19:33
I finally got around to making my first armylist and I found that points are indeed tight, running 2*6 maneater units is hard to pull off (since the cav is so damn good)

So my question is, if I cannot afford 6 poison sniper MEs, is it still worth running them if I can only take 3?

Someone did the math and apparantly 4 MEs has a 40% chance to kill off a 2 wound character per turn, so 3 would be less than that. Still worth it?

I am thinking of running 2*3 ME units rather than 1*6 atm. 3 With poison/snipe and 3 with scout/swiftstride.

I just feel the sniper combo had much more power when i could take out a 2 wound character a turn (at least more often than not)

Mercules
07-09-2011, 20:11
Second game with my Scout/Swiftstrider HvA/BoOP MEs.

First game he got first turn so he turned his units to face my ME who charged on my turn and wiped out a unit of slaves, then beat up a unit of CRs. 2 units sent to take them on, it worked for a disruption even if they lost in the end.


Second game, same foe. This time he kept his flanks covered and I deployed nearby. I got first turn so I shot one of his Weapon Teams and killed it. They he charged me with Slave and Clanrats. Only Clanrats made it into combat and I won the combat. Next turn my IG joined them (minus 4 members who got Brassed Orb'd) and crushed them while my Ogres and LBs went after the main part of his army and smashed it.

His comment was, "I take that back. Ironblasters are not 1+, Maneaters are. Can you get enough points for a second unit?"

I like the Scout/Swiftstride layout. He couldn't let me charge as I'd win the combat, so he tried a longer charge against me, and failed with a unit then I beat the other one silly. Now I wouldn't want to be charged by WoC with Halberds, but Clanrats and Slaves? Sure. :)

Vsurma
07-09-2011, 20:38
You might want to mention the size of your unit, atm we don't know if its 3 or 30

Mercules
07-09-2011, 22:02
I am running them 3 strong.

Barry "the blade"
11-09-2011, 21:16
I doubt I'll be running the poison/sniper set up, but if you frequently face the chosenstar you could reliably snipe the favor of the gods champ in a single round.

Still I think the scout/stubborn combo will be a more reliable pay off in an all comers list.

fruitystu
11-09-2011, 21:27
3 of them, possibly with Great Weapons, using Scout and Vanguard.

Smallish games, it's an awful lot of clout for your opponent to worry about from turn one!

rocdocta
13-09-2011, 03:43
having used 4 with dub pistols, flaming banner, sniper and poison, i have found the following:
their true value is not in the actual shooting results...but the enemys percieved threat from them. It will drasticaclly alter their plans.

i use 2x4 leadies as well for thinning high danger threats ie HE ASF GW dudes. My maneaters are more offensively strategic ie gutting key targets such as wizards and anything with regen. this allows the other shooters to ignore the regen for that unit for that turn. this concerns hydras no end. their breath weapon str suffers with every wound. flaming maneaters + leadies removes the hydra. sure you can get a firebelly but the fireball can be dispelled, wrong phase etc. plus how many VC lords/bsbs ever take a ward if in a unit of regen?

i found my lore of death oppo was too scared to even come close enough to throw a Psun. it allowed me to take the initiative off him.

to be honest, the sniper ability didnt do that much damage. but the leadies did. i cant wait to play vs Teclis now. ah ha ha ha!

BTW if worried they may have the 2+ ward vs flaming, take the rock eye for 2 gnobs points and adjust fire.

how many shooters are also monsters with 5 str 5 attacks each?!

Thalenchar
13-09-2011, 22:29
Nice, Rocdocta. It always speaks to a unit's worth in your army if they not only can perform themselves, but also make other parts of your army better. Add in that Maneaters are also apparently great at forcing your opponent to alter his plans and it seems to me Maneaters are fast becoming one of the new book's most included units! I know they are my favourite unit in the book so far!