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Y'he Sha'is
17-08-2011, 12:43
So, after a model trade with a good friend, I have come into the possession of quite a few HE models. I'm trying to make an army list that has fluff behind it, while at the same time can be competative as well. I would like to have one good guy army, and one bad guy army to play against each other as well as when I play in my gaming group and we play doubles (gg vs bg).

Right now the list really doesn't seem to 'do it' for me the same way the DE do, but I think I might be missing something in the list development.

As a side note, I also have a Dark Elf list that I've been buying models for that is sort of 'my baby', with lots of conversions and fluff that goes along with it. I'm curious if the HE list will be sufficiently different to keep my attention on both armies. I have a feeling if they are too similar then one will fall to the background, which isn't fair to the army at all. Constructive comments on the comparison of DE to HE are welcomed (and not 'who's better' {that's obvious =)}, but are they sufficiently different for people who play both).

Onto the list. Any advice/comments/criticisms are welcomed.

LORDS:
Knight-Mage Prince with Dragon Armor, Barded Steed, Shield, Lance, Vambrances of Defense and Radiant Gem of Hoeth - 292
I would like to try to develop a 'Knight-Mage', who can act as a back-up Level 1 Mage (probably death magic), while at the same time running with the DPs and causing some damage here and there. Obviously I have to pick a magic that can support this idea, so it has to be able to be cast from CC, which could be an issue. Perhaps he should be mounted on an eagle or something? I am still trying to develop this idea, and I think the knight-mage is one of the more unique ideas the HE leaders have going for them. That being said, I am in no way stuck to this guy.

Archmage with Level 4 Upgrade, Annulian Crystal and Guardian Phoenix - 330
Basic lvl 4 with the crystal for stealing dice and the 5+ ward save. I think He'll run with the Phoenix Guard. I'll probably take shadow on him, but I am open to suggestions/comments. I know the HE need a lvl 4, and he seems to work best augmenting other units.

HEROES:
Noble with Battle Standard Bearer, Armor of Caledor, Talismen of Loerc and Great Weapon - 151
He'll run with the Swordmasters, and hopefully chip in a bit of damage here and there, while allowing my other units their re-rolls. I look at him as a buffed up swordmaster.

CORE:
(30) Spearmen with Full Command -295

(30) Spearmen with Full Command - 295

(10) Archers - 110
The core seems kind of weak, and I think I have the largest problems here. I wonder if (2) units of (25) Lorthern Sea Guard would be better than what I have listed. The archers are there to fill points that are necessary for the 25%, but the 2 units of Sea Guard do the same thing, but are less specific and more general. I think large units are necessary because of the shadow magic coming from the level 4, so nothing below 25 men is appropriate. I am very open to suggestions on how to develop the core so it can fit with the list a bit better while still feeling elf-like.

SPECIAL:
(19) Phoenix Guard with Full Command - 315
My Archmage runs here. I figure these guys are a pretty good anvil, and can hold up enough units where I can get something else into the fray if I need to. Buffed they can do crazy stuff.

(20) Swordmasters with Full Command - 330
Probably one of the primary damage causing agents in the list if it's not augmented. They do die a lot to arrows, so I hope that the eagles can take the pressure off them. They run with the BSB at this point.

(5) Dragon Princes with Musician & Standard Bearer - 180
Run with my Knight-Mage, and are another damage dealing unit. I thought of running White Lions, but the points were a bit sticky. If I drop the knight mage for a lvl 1 or 2 mage, I could probably change these guys to white lions (20 or so), and have the special infantry tasting platter, but I'm not sure yet.

RARE:
Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50
I think these are about the only option the HE have for disruption of War Machines/fast cav/scouters, so 4 should be sufficient. If I have overlooked another option that can serve the same purpose, please let me know and I'll definitely take a look at it.

Whatcha think?

Pyriel
17-08-2011, 12:54
regarding the knight-mage:
1. give him the radiant gem of hoeth and give him the LIFE lore.
2. if you dont roll for something TRULY superb, switch for the signature spell.
3. join a unit of dragon princes.
4. cast the signature spell to buff the princes by giving them regeneration. they now have a ward save that can be cancelled by...flaming attacks. yeah, good job using flaming attacks on dragon princes ;)

Yakovs
17-08-2011, 13:03
Knight mage - Life would be good as pyriel said, also nice for restoring lost wounds to the prince. other options would be high magic for shield on the princes (or swordmasters if in range?) as it's easier to cast and you get drain magic which is ok, something else to consider is going beasts for wyssans wildform (nice if you're in a protracted combat).

Mage - shadow is a Great lore, mindrazor on spearmen is Great. If you were planning on getting the phoenix guard into combat i would go with Foliarths robes + talisman of saphery and silver wand.

BSB - i'd change the talisman for dawnstone or guardian phoenix

Core - look fine

Phoenix - considering putting the banner of Sorcery on these

Swordmasters - consider banner of eternal flame on these

Dragon Princes - look Fine for what you're trying to do :)

Eagles - Love eagles

If you were struggling to find points you could swap the Prince to a noble with Dragon Armour, Lance, barded steed, gem of hoeth, Charmed shield for a Baby Knight-mage. hope i've helped :D good luck!

Y'he Sha'is
17-08-2011, 14:12
Great advice guys! Thanks so much. Here is the updated list (and hopefully better but with the same general feel).

LORDS:
Archmage with Level 4, Folaraith's robes, Talismen of Saphery (SHADOW Magic) - 340
I like this idea, particularly if he'll be in combat. Hopefully coupled with the (hopefully buffed) PG they shouldn't break very often.

HEROES:
Baby Knight-Mage Noble with Barded Steed, Dragon Armor, Lance, Enchanted Shield and Radiant Gem (LIFE Magic) - 161
For points, I went with the Baby-Knight-Mage, but he can still do the same thing. With Life, he can stay relatively healthy, and still cast a basic spell to buff as needed. I might try high on him as well as time goes on. Fluff-wise he's the leader of the cavalry and former dragon rider (hence the magic).

Noble with BSB, Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor and Dawnstone - 166
A little more defensive, but still overall pretty good. Fluff-wise he's the leader of the infantry.


CORE:
(35) Spearmen with Full Command - 340

(35) Spearmen with Full Command - 340
I dropped the archers because they just felt added-on (and they were). These units get bigger, but they get more anvil-y too.

SPECIAL:
(24) Phoenix Guard with Full Command with Banner of Sorcery - 440
A lot of points in one unit... but I think they are worth it and can hold up whatever is thrown against them. They can act as a great bunker for my mage, and the banner is just icing on the cake.

(20) Swordmasters with Full Command - 330
Stays the same because I'm out of points. But still a good (if fragile) hammer.

(5) Dragon Princes with Musician and Standard Bearer - 180
I thought about buffing these guys to 7, putting the baby-knight-mage on an eagle, and dropping the PG back to 20, but the PG won out. Opinions on that?

RARE:
Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50

Great Eagle - 50
4 seems slightly excessive to me, but if I added a noble on an eagle, that could serve as one... thoughts?

Jack of Blades
17-08-2011, 14:29
Hmm... what about dropping three Eagles and a couple of Phoenix Guard so you can have two units of Dragon Princes (one to support each unit of Spearmen - 2 units of 5 more threatening and harder to take out than one unit of 7 for not so many points more), then putting the Baby Knight-Mage on an eagle? then put the Banner of Eternal Flame on the Swordmasters.

Yakovs
17-08-2011, 14:32
Dropping an Eagle and 2 phoenix guard will give you points to add silver wand + 2 Dragon Princes and banner of eternal flame (it's too good not to have, even if you just stick it on a block of spearmen tho the swordmasters are better for it). also the noble has 55pts of magic items as you use the pts from the army book not rulebook, charmed shield'd be a good replacement :) or if you don't go beasts on him (which it seems you're not keen on ;)) you could go with a great weapon on the noble + luckstone to keep hitting hard, tho he is a bit squishy then :).