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Mace1982
19-08-2011, 00:31
Archmage (lvl 4, Seerstaff) lore of life 290
lvl 2 mage (dispel scroll, channeling staff) high magic 175
lvl 2 mage (silver wand) Unsure of lore either shadow,death,light,metal 145

24 Phoenix Guard (full cmd, banner of sorcery) 440

30 Seaguard (shields, full cmd) 415

20 spearmen (full cmd) 205

20 Spearmen (full cmd) 205

5 Ellyrian Reavers (bows and spears) 105

5 Ellyrian Reavers (bows and spears) 105

3 repeater bolt throwers 300

total 2385 (will look at some 15 pointer magic item to make it 2400)

lore of life spells i will choose every game are - Throne of Vines,Regrowth and flesh to stone the 4th will depend on my opponent.

to save questions regarding the Reavers they are in my list to refuse a flank by getting out ahead march blocking and charge fleeing.
The Repeaters are there to hopefully multi shot opposition warmachines turn 1 and take em out.

Pheonix guard = archmage bunker

Seaguard = High Mage bunker

3rd mage unsure yet what he will do lore wise :-)

Anyhow what do you think?

Oberon
19-08-2011, 07:20
From the top:
-what spells are you taking for your archmage? With seerstaff, you'll have to choose right about now (all 4 of them)
- you are aware that you can only have a single arcane item per character? Dispell scrolls aren't any special anymore.
-IMO those spearmen regiments are too small, combine them to save points from the other command group, and make them unit last longer on the field.
-flaming banner would fit nicely somewhere in there, or the +1LD banner (for your general's bunker)
-great eagles are better than reavers
-archers are better than bolt throwers

Mace1982
19-08-2011, 07:36
Ok in response I have picked 3 of the 4 spells for seer staff, the 4th being army dependent, the duel arcane item was a stupid oversight due to being tired, each bolt thrower is 100 pts fires 6 st 4 bolts with minus 2 save for the same 100 pts I can get 9 archers with st 3 shots, reavers vs eagles why are eagles better?

Oh and the spears are 20's due to the brb stating you must have a minimum of 3 core in your army :-)
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Oberon
19-08-2011, 08:02
Not core, just units. You could make an army of one huge core unit, 2 eagles, and characters if you wanted.
You get 2 eagles for one group of reavers and they can fly.

300pts=3 bolters=6 wounds=18 shots=rare
a bit under 300pts=27 archers=27 wounds=27 shots=core. So yeah.

Mace1982
19-08-2011, 08:23
Yup they get 9 more shots but do less damage and less armour reduction, ok they have more wounds than the bolt throwers but I think the raw damage output would be higher than archers. The news about the 3 core is good news I may drop 20 spear and 5 reavers and take 30 sword masters ;-)


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thesheriff
19-08-2011, 08:33
I don't think your spearmen units are too small. with there small frontage, they are excellent speedbumps for horde units. If they charge you, they get either 21 20mm models or 18 25mm. Where as you will get 20 models.you should also have steadfast (unless you get truly munched in combat) and have ASF.

I do, however agree with the sentiment of eagles over reavers. Apart from model coolness, eagles are tops in every senario.

I would also reorganize your Mage gear and lores;

*Lv4 with Talismain of Saphery, Forlaiths robes, silver wand, LORE OF LIFE.
*Lv2, Seerstaff of Saphery. LORE OF SHADOW (okkams mind razor, memory's mystifying miasma)
*Lv2, dispel scroll, High Lore.

The Lv4 with 5 spells should get all he wants from life (with doubles and natural rollings). Okkams is too good not to have with elves, and can turn your spearmen into real blenders. And High lore, because it's a low casting all rounder. And, for the scroll.

thesheriff

EDIT; Don't take 30 Swordsmasters in one unit. Take smaller, two rank units of 14. Warmachines do slightly less damage to those two small units, you'll have an extra unit to throw into flanks, and you will get proportionally more attacks.

b4z
19-08-2011, 08:34
You have absolutely no offensive power.

How are you going to deal with big combat units exactly?

Where are the offensive Specials? [White Lions/Swordmasters]

Mace1982
19-08-2011, 09:57
Ok bog units of offensive troops will meet my buffed Phoenix guard running toughness 7 or if I take shadow/death/metal will just spam them for 2 turns with everything I have


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Mace1982
19-08-2011, 10:05
@the sheriff yeah I have been contemplating the small swordmasters units for a few hours, so with reavers being able to rally reform and move after fleeing a charge can eagles do this also?

@everyone else please bear in mind it's etc rules so no more than 45 missile troops not counting warmachines so with 30 seaguard I have only 15 spaces for further bow wielding troops also make unit size for high elves is 40 with a total points cost of 500 or less inc magic items etc.

Also after checking out the ETC lists mine is actually quite gentle in comparison for example one empire list is running.

Electors count, war alter
Level 4 shadow
4 captains 3 of which are on pegasi
3 x 39 halberdiers
2 cannons
2 mortar
helstrum rocket
plus magic items

Or daemon armies running 2 units of 5 furies 26 bloodletter 29 daemonettes a hellcanon a bloodthirster herald of khorne, slannesh, and nurgle

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Pulstar
19-08-2011, 10:51
I would not take Life on you AM.

With 70 S3 spear armed elves in your army, okkams mind razor becomes the only way to really kill anything.

Phoenix Guard are also stout enough that they don't need Lore of Light to keep them up, but they also need buffs to kill most things.

AM w/ Forlaiths robes, Talismain of Saphery, Forlaiths robes, silver wand Lore of Shadow. You could also drop the ToS and Silver wand for the seer staff here and pick Mind Razor, Miasma, and the T and S debuffs which are the 4 spells you really want.

Take Lore of Fire on one of your level 2. Either give him the ignore first miscast staff and let him drop a 3d6 fire balls on stuff, or the seerstaff so he can get the flaming sword.

thesheriff
19-08-2011, 11:30
I would not take Life on you AM.

With 70 S3 spear armed elves in your army, okkams mind razor becomes the only way to really kill anything.

Phoenix Guard are also stout enough that they don't need Lore of Light to keep them up, but they also need buffs to kill most things.

AM w/ Forlaiths robes, Talismain of Saphery, Forlaiths robes, silver wand Lore of Shadow. You could also drop the ToS and Silver wand for the seer staff here and pick Mind Razor, Miasma, and the T and S debuffs which are the 4 spells you really want.

Take Lore of Fire on one of your level 2. Either give him the ignore first miscast staff and let him drop a 3d6 fire balls on stuff, or the seerstaff so he can get the flaming sword.

Life is the number one lore for elves.

They need the durability more than okkams.

And, if he followed my suggestion, he could just pick okkams on the lv2.

Lore of life needs a spellcaster with alot of spells, to take full advantage of throne of vines. 5 spells is good, up to lore master which is ideal. Lore of Shadow doesnt need to do this, hence a lv2 with seerstaff bring the better option IMO.

Oberon
19-08-2011, 12:10
Eagles vs reavers: no eagles can't rally&move in the same turn. In the redirecting&harassment-role reavers and eagles act in, cost and unit count are valuable. The sacrificial units need 3 things: speed to get to the optimal position when needed, numbers to force the opponent's actions, and a low price point so you don't mourn the loss.

With one unit of reavers, 100 is kind of lot for a sacrificial unit and the enemy can just redirect when you flee OR catch the unit. With eagles, 50 isn't that expensive. You can put two eagles in front of the unit that you want to hold that turn, force him to redirect at the other eagle and then fail his charge.

Point is: reavers are expensive and you can do much more with 2 units than one, even if that one unit would be a bit more killy. In some roles, being killy isn't a necessary quality.

Shadows and life are both equally viable lores, and two wizards should be enough. Pick one of the two lores for your AM, and a lore with a good signature that supports the AM for your level 2 (or use the seerstaff and pick even better spells).

Mace1982
19-08-2011, 12:18
Also reavers can march and shoot I know it sounds daft but I think 2 eagles for the cost of 5 reavers, 5 reavers just feel more versatile imo but then again I'm new to 8th not touched a warhammer product since 6th so really I need to throw down some games before I can fully
Comment because battles playing out in your mind are damn biased :-)

Oberon
19-08-2011, 13:27
Well, I got to admit that I haven't ever played with ellyrian reavers. I have used dark riders and mounted yeomen, but my 4+1 eagles far outperform them every time. I think reavers' shooting ability is neglible at best, 5 shots is just 5, and they drop pretty fast to enemy shooting as well. Eagles are cheap because they are focused to two roles only, ruining the enemy game plan by flying in front of them, and fighting small units. Eagles do those two things very well and don't cost that much per bird. Sure, I invest 200+222pts in my 5 eagles, and only 222pts usually are left alive after the game, but the amount of control over your enemy alone is worth it and more often than not they manage to actually earn some points as well.

Reavers can do a few tricks, sure. It's just the cost and the amount of space on the board they take (on the way there too!), that ruings the unit for me.

Mace1982
19-08-2011, 15:48
I can agree with that anyhow I had a look over things and high elves are rather bad under ETC rulings no wonder they are not taken much I mean maximum points in one unit on roster is 500pts and you must spend 600pts on core and our core choices aint the best, I'll post another list I have concocted.


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Mace1982
19-08-2011, 17:04
weirdly after checking ETC HE lists none take bolt throwers and only 2/5 took archers hmmm, 3/5 take the book of hoeth with shadow (i only looked at first 5 lists there is probs more and why white lions over PG and swordmasters is it stubborn versus fear etc etc meh i need to learn alot

Richmt11
20-08-2011, 08:43
I'm agreein with previous posters. I haven ever took my ellyrian and favour eagles for the use you are intending.

I also heavily agree that you NEED some specials heavy hitters (SM, WL). But I will contradict with 2x14 units... I have recently been fielding 21SM in games. I find a unit of 14 too squishy and depending who your up against that will be killed before combat.

My last game vs O&G saw 21 SM kill 25 black orcs w/general shaman and BSB, 20 regular Orc w/ full command and 8 wolf riders (rear charged) with a character all in one game. But if I'd taken 2x14 I would have flees one unit off the board turn 1 as my SM lost 9 to shooting and if they didn't flee easily killed... I just find 21 SM is a super strog block. Get rid of more ellyrian and take 14 WL also... Just suggesting you playtest 2x14 SM against 1x21

thesheriff
20-08-2011, 11:21
Book of Hoeth with Shadow is a death wish IMO. At least with life, you could take throne of vines. Otherwise, your gonna blow up loads.

Mace1982
20-08-2011, 11:37
Yah but book of hoeth is weird in you only blow up on double 6's were as you irresistible force on any doubles so it's pretty damn nasty especially with shadow and death, but even dweller's from life would be nasty ass.


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Mace1982
20-08-2011, 20:30
Really considering a double dragon list prince on star ad dragon mage hmmm would be fun play!


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Pyriel
21-08-2011, 13:37
..umm, i dunno. a list like that (double dragon) might have problems.

a good idea is this:
-570 pts for prince on star dragon
-175 pts for lvl 2High Mage w/annulian crystal(hence not too weak on magic)
-415 pts for lvl 2 dragon mage w/silver wand and guardian phoenix

total Lords & Heroes 1160 pts
with 600 pts of Core(max spearmen in this list to have *some* numbers), and 100 pts for 2 great eagles, you should have 540 pts leftover for Special. i'd go for 20 "infantry elites"(SM/PG/WL) and 5 dragon princes-both have "reasonable" durability for a low-model count list, infantry can be the bunker for your mage, and dragon princes are moderately-powerful attack units that can also hunt warmachines due to mobility.

this list isnt exactly what most ppl would use in a tournament, but you'd be surprised how much it *wont* suck; it has tons of mobility, two powerful FLYING monsters(flying monsters pose a completely different threat in that they are much harded to deal with warmachines since they will be in combat from turn 2, and even turn 1 sometimes; sure, cannonballs can hurt them like all monsters, but *will they do so fast enough*?), and a weak-ish but important magic-phase, as it produces +3 casting dice per turn(3 spels of DM) and features the high-annulian mage as a good dispeller.

it isnt top-notch, but has a definite "x-factor" to it.