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NTJ2010
20-08-2011, 07:00
This school year I plan on working on my painting/basing and would like to start a new army.

I fancy myself a decent painter but I want to have an army that just looks great (of course I know it's going to take a lot of time but that's fine). I'm hoping to also work on a Fantasy army at the same time so I can, more or less, alternate to break up the monotony, but I need help choosing what 40k army to start.

I currently have a Necron army (I actually wouldn't mind doing them but I've gotten to the point I'm not working on them until the new book), a Logan Grimnar Wolf Guard Army (I play them maybe once ever 3 months and do well with them just, eh. I like marines but not a huge fan of Space Wolfs anymore), Chaos Daemons (this is my main army but it's a lot of half painted, [also my second oldest army in total] and what not I work on it from time to time just a lot of, man I don't feel like trying to salvage those old figures...you get the idea), and Tau (mostly painted badly, got half the army in a trade, like Necrons waiting for a new book)

Sorry to give too much information but trying to give you an idea of what I'm coming from.

I want an army that can perform (that isn't to say be a game breaking army but able to play without thinking...I'm screwed from the start), has decent range (can do theme lists possibly and not a cookie cutter army), and hopefully has themes (craftworlds, chapters, hives, etc.)

That being said: not going to do Sisters of Battle, Chaos Space Marines, or Grey Knights.


Anyway any advice. I'm very mixed.

Some additional thoughts I have on the remaining army (I hate to make this long but I also hate when people ask for advice with little to no information provided)

Blood Angels: I'm fairly unsure on them, they could be fun just haven't looked into them much.
Dark Eldar: Mixed on them, obviously competitive and can do somethings, just has a few things I don't like (not sure how I'd paint them and I really wish Archons and Succubi could take Reavers and/or Skyboards)
Eldar: I like them but not sure which craftworld I'd do and not a huge fan of the fact each Aspect has a "set" paint job more or less (I want my army to be fluffy, at least in terms of paint/assembly)
IG: I'd likely do Catachan to break up the monotony, I have used them before and am interested just not sure since they kind of lack pizazz in my mind.
Orks: I do play fantasy O&Gs, and wouldn't mind them just one that is a bit daunting in army size (as I'd want hordes with them, either that or bikers), and not sure it'd really help my painting since it'd have to be block painting more or less.
Space Marines (Dark Angels and Black Templar included): I like the diversity available, and have been interested in White Scars for a long while (my only concern is painting that much White and also marines can be tiring to keep interesting in terms of painting).
Tyranids: Never looked a ton into them, I've seen and heard they are kind of lower teir right now but it could be interesting to try, not sure at all on how fun they are to paint but it could be fun trying to do conversions for stuff like the Tervigon (also I would likely run a few hordes)

Anyway I thought I'd get some of your thoughts on this (Note: I will be moving so won't be able to respond for about a day or so, just a heads up)

(again sorry if this was too long)

Brother Alexos
20-08-2011, 07:58
Blood Angels- Loads of fun here, but it is a bit too easy to make a broken list in my mind, with deep striking land raiders and Dante, along with the Sanguinor. That said, it does have a lot of variety when it comes to fluff for a one-chapter based armybook.
Dark Eldar- lots of themes here as well, but you have to watch out for painting, as there are lots of large, flat plates on vehicles, and a lot of organic shapes. Not ideal for layering or edging.
Eldar- As you've said, there isn't much variety unless you use a guardian-heavy list, but they can preform great if used in the right combination. I know you're trepidation on the Aspects, but they CAN have different colour schemes, but it has to be on the small things. Fire dragons will still be orange armour, but you can colour the plumes different to represent a specific shrine.
IG- I've heard Catachans look a bit too muscly, but that shouldn't matter much. If you have a good budget, and can go on Ebay, you should look into using Chaos Marauder torsos (without the chaos markings) for a nice Barbarian-esque deathworld army. This army has the most potential game- and fluff-wise, as you can come from almost any Death world, and can do anything from Veterans to Conscript hordes and Mechanised to Armoured company.
Orks- again, lots of variety, just on Warband name alone, but your painting options are limited to green, and there are a LOT of them, so high-quality is out of the window. It is hard to deal with armoured or mechanised units without a few units of Tankbustas, which are difficult to control on the field of battle, so this may hamper you game-wise.
Space Marines- Yeah, there is a ton of chapters, but painting marine after marine will be daunting. You will be able to paint power armour well at the end of this army, but skin and the other things marines don't have, like camoflauge or capes or cloth in general, will still be hard to do.
Tyranids- fluff is okay, but the feel of the army really comes down to army composition. There aren't many competitive lists, but you should be able to do fine in a friendly game, though you will have difficulty when it comes to fighting elite armies. My suggestion is that you bulk out on a few full hordes Hormagaunts and Termagaunts, and then use the rest of your points on deepstriking and outflanking untis to tie up his hardest units, and make the fight a whole lot easier.

All of these armies offer variety, but I think that if you want to practice a bit of everything, you should go for Imperial Guard. The imperial guard offer a chance to learn advanced tactics with the order system, as well as paint everything from skin and cloth to arms and armour. You can use every type of unit available in Warhammer 40k, from a fast skimmer to a cavalry unit, and a Tank to a grunt, you have it all, and almost all of it can work, and if used properly, can be a fun army that won't wipe the floor with the enemy every time.

For catachans, you can use just about any list and still be fluffy. Infantry hordes are cool with Catachans, and the Catachan 2nd are an airborne force, so you can use things like the Elysian Drop troops armylist in Imperial Armour, as well as nothin' but veterans from Harker, and even stormtroopers with the man of admantium himself, Straken, to deadly effect.

NTJ2010
20-08-2011, 08:13
Yeah the Catachan thing popped into my head the other night and is interesting me (I'm waiting to act to make sure it's not just a spur of the moment thing).
It does promise for giving me stuff to convert without doing stuff that is terribly difficult (I'd like Storm Troopers and Rough Riders).
My plan for the rough riders, if I did it, was mixing catachan bits with chaos marauders. Additionally for stormtroopers it wouldn't be hard to make some special looking guys (I actually have an extra half a box of Chaos Marauders that I might use to help for that).

Am I correct in saying that (although different specific armies) Harker, Straken and Nork are the special characters for Catachans? (I like the guard characters for the Cadians, Catachans and Yarrick)

Also I believe Marbo is Catachan but is he any good? (I can't imagine him living longer than a second)

zmyke
20-08-2011, 11:42
i looking to start to play and im trying to pick between the Tau and the Tyranids what are the strenghts and weekness of both??

NTJ2010
20-08-2011, 20:00
I honestly can't tell you much about Tyranids other than what I've heard other said (so I won't)

Tau the strength is clearly shooting (that's their focus) and their main weakness is close combat (they can't do it really...one could argue for Kroot, and comparatively they are good but still not great)
They also can be argued as decent mobility (between crisis suits and a decent range of skimmers they are fairly mobile, that isn't to say fast though).
Tau also aren't exactly "competitive" right now but they can be fun to paint and are actually fun to use (and you can still win just takes all that much more work)

Brother Alexos
20-08-2011, 20:08
@ NTJ2010
Marbo is cool for killing a leader unit, or a small unit of infantry, but since he can't join units, and literally deepstrikes by himself 1" away from any enemy model, he is very vulnerable to enemy fire. Harker, Straken, and Marbo are all Catachan-based special characters, while Nork is a character that has helped out a plethora of Imperial commanders. But that doesn't mean that you can't use Yarrick (You could make Armaggedon Ork Hunters for him.) or the other characters in the book.

@ zmyke:
Tau- The tau have the longest ranged weapons in the game, as well as some of the most powerful weapons and squads. Things like Crysis Suits with the Hit-and-Run rule are really devastating in close combat as well. Their major drawback is that their close combat suck, as their low Toughness and Strength make it hard to kill anything in CC. That said, there are few things that can survive getting to a Tau line. I should know. I played a 2000pt game of Orks vs. Tau, and nothin' but 2 boyz and a grot made it to the other side. But the tau do have units like the Kroot, which fill that Close Combat role.

Tyranids- Tyranids ARE close combat, so don't expect to do much shooting. The real vulnerability to this army is if you lose your Leaders, as your army will fall back to instinctual behavior. The thing you really have to watch out for is Elite Infantry, like a Space Marine Gunline, or a Tau gunline. The one thing that will make your Tyranid army shine is the big beasties, such as Carnifex Broods and Trygons. I suggest taking at least one (preferrably two) Trygons and a few broods of Hormagaunts in reserve. There is a special rule for Trygons, stating that after it has deep striked, you can place a marker on that same spot, and in later turns can call in squads of non-flying infantry units onto a 6" radius of the marker. If deployed behind an enemy gunline, they will probably focus on the Trygon, giving those broods time to assault into a unit themselves.

Another devastating tactic is to use Genestealers and Mycetric Spores to outflank and encircle the enemy. It can be quite devastating, and will tie up tons of units. This will allow your footsloggers to make it to the fight without being shot up first.

zmyke
21-08-2011, 00:34
if im a sneaky type which would be better sneaky in you don't see me now shoot or cut now you see me. which are more fun to play??

Pyriel
21-08-2011, 00:52
it depends what you mean "sneaky". for deepstrike lists, tyranids and blood angels are safest bets i think.

i dont play tyranids, but some of my best friends do and know the previous codex , and much of this one, by heart as i face them twice a week approx. same goes for eldar.

tyranids have excellent painting choices. seriously, the army can look amazing. competitive-wise, the problem is huge, but it is NOT what most ppl think: its not that tyranids cant be competitive, it is that if they want to be competitive they have very limited options. for example, carnifexes are very popular with old players, and now they realy,realy suck in the newest codex. same goes for tyranid warriors.

but Trygons are excellent monstrous creatures, fast and relatively resilient (t6 6 wounds) that can deep strike too, and help other models deepstrike too. tervigons spawn termagaunts non-stop to flood objectives and provide synapse, and hive guard will make a mockery of transports, and deepstriking zoanthropes easily destroy land raiders. infiltrating/outflanking genestealers can pWn virtualy anything. tyranids HAVE competitive choices-just these choices are mostly new models (two units of hive guard and two tervigons are mandatory for example) and forced old players to change their playstyle tremendously, something that ofc "felt weird". a competitive tyranid list is easily mid-tier, definitely not in the 3-4 weakest codeci.

Eldar: i wouldnt advise eldar atm. their play revolves around one list: dire avengers on serpents and fire dragons on falcons.and maybe a seer council.=boring. especialy to a player that wants to paint/have some variety.

zmyke
21-08-2011, 13:39
are the tau very versital in what they can do. or is that better suited to the tyranids?? im leaning toward the Tau. should i read the codex on the type of troops and see which make with what i want to play??

zmyke
21-08-2011, 13:39
oh what is deep strike??

hunting tabby
21-08-2011, 16:59
Make sure to buy your stuff from a discount retailer/ebay if you can. Games Workshop prices are insane.

I recommend Dicebucket.

If you are interested in playing the game, and don't already have a 5th edition rulebook, you can get the 5th edition mini rulebook from ebay for ~$14.

Chem-Dog
21-08-2011, 17:31
Yeah the Catachan thing popped into my head the other night and is interesting me (I'm waiting to act to make sure it's not just a spur of the moment thing).
It does promise for giving me stuff to convert without doing stuff that is terribly difficult (I'd like Storm Troopers and Rough Riders).
My plan for the rough riders, if I did it, was mixing catachan bits with chaos marauders. Additionally for stormtroopers it wouldn't be hard to make some special looking guys (I actually have an extra half a box of Chaos Marauders that I might use to help for that).

Am I correct in saying that (although different specific armies) Harker, Straken and Nork are the special characters for Catachans? (I like the guard characters for the Cadians, Catachans and Yarrick)

Also I believe Marbo is Catachan but is he any good? (I can't imagine him living longer than a second)

About Catachans:- The standard infantry models are incredibly dated (and to be honest they weren't very good when they were new, earning them the sobriquet of "Crapachans" ) so if you're gong with them consider keeping the number of those kits you buy to a minimum and ramping up the purchase of command and heavy weapon squads (which are way better imho).

Harker, Marbo and Straken are straight cut Catachan and Nork is listed as having served with at least one Catachan regiment at one time (but there's nothing to prevent you having them represent heroic characters from other Regiments). Marbo is a Demo Charge delivery device, if he survives after his reveal and resulting huge explosion, it's a bonus, few of us expect it to happen though.

RE- Dark Eldar. There are a few thematic builds that stand out, the Carnival of flesh (Heamonculi, Grotesques, Wracks and various Pain engines) is a personal favourite. I know it's not the most ideal solution but Baron Sathinsinsxinsinxsn (stupid Xenos names) allows you a HQ on a Skyboard and makes Hellions a troops choice into the bargain (stunclaw ftw).


oh what is deep strike??

Units start off of the table and arrive via parachute, orbital drop, teleportation or manifestation avoiding all that nasty wandering across the battlefield nonsense. It's pretty well known in 40K....

zmyke
21-08-2011, 23:38
what HQ, Troops would you suggest for the player of a Tau

Charistoph
21-08-2011, 23:57
what HQ, Troops would you suggest for the player of a Tau

There are currently only 2 choices for each slot. For HQ, Crisis Suit Commander and Ethereal. Ethereals are walking targets, while they do have a good Leadership buff, they are easy to kill and can cause any Racially Tau unit to head for the hills when they die; they honestly make better objective markers than a fielded model at this point. That leaves you with the Commander who has better stats and gear than a normal Crisis Suit. He's not bad at all, and you have to field one anyway. (There are 3 Special Character HQs, but that's a whole nother story and post).

For Troops, there are Kroot and Fire Warriors. You have to take one team of Fire Warriors, though. Fire Warriors have the most powerful and long-ranged basic Troop gun in the game. That being said, they royally suck in close combat so much that only their armor and bad enemy rolls gives them any chance once there. Kroot are light infantry. They generally don't wear armor, and are superior in close combat to most non-dedicated close combat units. They are the Close Combat specialists for the Tau, and allow you to field Horde numbers in a unit (bigger than 'Nid units, if you pay the prices).

In the end, to start a Tau army with, it is recommended that you have a Crisis Suit, a Fire Warrior squad, and a Kroot Carnivore squad. It is also recommended that the Fire Warriors get their hands on a Devilfish (interestingly enough, the Battleforce box includes all this plus 3 Stealthsuits). The Tau army's best units generally lie in their Elites and Heavy Support, and you will usually fill those out before Troops or Fast Attack. Many will recommend Pathfinders as well, their Marker Lights are VERY useful (as long as they are alive) and their required Devilfish can be used to cart Fire Warriors and small Carnivore squads across the board.

zmyke
22-08-2011, 02:33
what about the commander shadow sun?? and what about drones ??

zmyke
22-08-2011, 02:34
oh and thank you for all your help peps

Charistoph
22-08-2011, 03:11
what about the commander shadow sun?? and what about drones ??

Shadowsun is okay. One of her Drones has a good trick to it, and her wargear allows her to fire her Fusion Blasters at 2 separate targets in the Shooting Phase (a VERY rare trick that one). She's in a modified Stealth Suit, so her stats aren't quite as good as Farsight's or a regular Shas'O. Her one other deficit is that she can't join units until her Drone are gone, nor does she have access to a Retinue, so until she's lost all her Drones, she's rather easily targeted. Her defense against that is that she's still carrying a Stealth Field Generator, which makes shooting at her at long range quite difficult, but she's easily seen before her own gun's in range.

zmyke
22-08-2011, 23:49
could someone give me good start list so i know what to buy and what not to buy for my Tau army please.