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View Full Version : Can Storm Of Magic be used in a 7th edition game?



Hamster Of Dooooom
20-08-2011, 11:59
Greetings world of warseer,

More than fashionably late, Im just now getting into 7th edition. Reasons? I got the hardcover rulebook for $1 (thats right 100 cents) And Im getting the army books for 6th and early 7th for around $5 a pop. So its a price issue, and also I dont game with anyone but my own group who happen to play "dead" game systems mostly (Knights and Magick, AD&D 1E, and various Napoleonic and WW2 games). We wont be using GW figures and arent worried about powerlists and uber unit synergy thingees. We arent competitive tournament players. We like to collaboratively create scenarios, so winning at all costs is not a problem we have. We play historicals as well, and can dig the fact that some scenarios are meant to be lopsided. Oh and also I bought and played 1st and 2nd edition warhammer as well as 1st edition 40k when it was called rogue trader. So yeah, we are grognards of a sort.

So if I understand the history of Warhammer 7th, the rules were a streamlining of 6th edition which is considered a good stable ruleset. Which makes 7th a better edition than 6th, ruleswise. However, the later army books for 7th are terri-bad. So the best of both worlds are 7th rules with 6th army books? Well, im not asking.. its what Ive already decided upon and the books are in our hands and we are in the midst of processing it ruleswise.

However, Ive read some blurbs on Storm of Magic and Im tempted by monsters, Ive got D&D figures to represent most of those. I really want to proxy a Beholder for a Cockatrice for use in a Drow army(oh im sorry I mean dark elf). Ive already started rebasing and repurposing shambling mounds for fen beast/treekin in my wood elf army.

Stop me b4 I ramble on, long story short, can I use Storm of Magic rules easily in a 7th edition game?

Would it be worth it just to get points costs of monsters and their stats at least?

Much thanks and respects all round...
Hammy
:)

moonwhisper
20-08-2011, 18:33
I don't know the SOM rules very well, but AFAIK, there shouldn't be many issues. You probably have to check some Cataclysmic spells if they can fit into 7th, and maybe make some little changes, but otherwise no problems. At least, nothing comes to mind by now.
In 8th, you add the caster's level to the casting result, which allows you to reach higher casting values, but in 7th you had more power dice so you should be able to reach them aswell.
And it seems to me that your group is already ok with homebrew rules, so you should be able to use it quite easily.

Kyte
20-08-2011, 18:41
there may be some issues with power dice generation and channelling, but the rest would fit OK.

Jind_Singh
20-08-2011, 21:47
It could to a lesser extent - some of the rules might seem whacky though for old 7th ed...

Nice to see you got the books for cheap - but for your kind of gaming group I think you'd all have more fun with 8th ed rules - the games are just so much more entertaining - the game mechanics of 7th are fine but they do make for dry games, 8th ed games feel like actual battles - and lend themselves easily to narative.

I'd most likely use 7th ed but adopt some 8th ed practices - especially using percentages to build army lists instead of the old restrictions they used in 7th, and some of the magic rules in 8th are pretty cool!

IronShark
21-08-2011, 03:06
It'll definitely take some re-working of the rules. The magic phase changed significantly from 7th to 8th. It is doable, but you're not going to be able to use it without modification to either the Storm rules or the 7th ed magic rules.

Lester
21-08-2011, 03:16
Magic phases might do well as 7th Ed rewarded Heavy Magic with lots of power dice. But the multiple Dispell Scrolls of 7th will ruin some of the fun.

RTGamer
21-08-2011, 03:55
Also only being able to use 1 dice more than your wizard level might tame the fun down a little.

Jind_Singh
21-08-2011, 05:23
Besides, using 7th ed rules now that the 8th ed rules are out is like....

Drinking skimmed milk....

It looks like milk but it sure don't taste like milk!

Hamster Of Dooooom
22-08-2011, 11:59
Thanks for the answers guys.

Im not sure i really want to use the new magic anyway, I prefer low magic impacting in a wargame. Oh and I want to houserule away dispell scrolls, double the costs of magic items, cap all magic users to a max lvl of 2 and somehow include a vancian magic system ala AD&D. I dont like the random spells at the start of battle and that magic spells never runs out. Even then, I think magic will be too powerful, but nothing that time and tweaking cant fix. My group wants to continue using our own fantasy campaign world where magic is just slightly more powerful than Tolkien or George RR Martins, but fantastic monsters are more common.

And thats what I really wanted to know was if the rules for including allies and monsters was compatible with 7th edition. Im guessing they are since the old army books still work with 8th (points costs and stats-wise) Yup, love big monsters. Plus Im thinking of scenarios where referee/DM gets to run wild monsters that attack units of any side that venture too close to their lairs.

All in all though, Im digging 7th edition more than 1st and 2nd, it makes more sense and is smoother in play. But I sure do love the atmosphere and coy british humor that is missing in the new editions. I just got a copy of 5th edition and the 15mm Warmaster rules as well, just the rulebooks without the boxes and figures, just for collecting purposes.

Im sure 8th is even better, but Ill find out in a few years when 9th comes out and all the 8th material sells on the cheap.

Morkash
22-08-2011, 18:28
Strictly restricting magic but include Storm of Magic is like selling your pistol because you dislike weapon and buying a gatling gun afterwards.

If just for the monsters, then you can houserule it: use them straight out of the armybooks!

Hamster Of Dooooom
22-08-2011, 20:16
Yes I realize there are monsters in each army book.

And although, I havent got all the army books, I was under the impression that cockatrices dont appear in any army book?

My last question would be: is there a significant amount of monsters that exclusively appear in Storm of Magic?

popisdead
22-08-2011, 21:47
I would guess no. Spells and magic changed too much as did the monsters. Storm of Magic is about Magic and Monsters.

Also,. kudos on finding an out of print book for 100 pennies, now save up more pennies and join the land of fun (8th ed)

Hamster Of Dooooom
23-08-2011, 02:07
So I guess Ill pass on SOM. Thanks anyways for the advice fellas.

If anyone else reads this and finds themselves in the same predicament, I just found the ultimate solution to adding warhammer monsters to your armies...

find the Warhammer Quest Museum online. Theyve got actual D&D monsters stated up for warhammer and its easy to convert the monsters gold reward to points cost for WFB, divide by 10. So not only is it great for folks who want to homebrew WFB, but now I want to start making my own scratch built WHQ.

Scythe
23-08-2011, 10:54
My last question would be: is there a significant amount of monsters that exclusively appear in Storm of Magic?

Yeah, a lot of monsters (including the cockatrice) from SoM do not appear in any (7th edition) army book. Monsters that DO appear in army books are often slightly tweaked in the Storm of Magic and often have a few options which makes the monster a little more fun (like options for adding rage, a tail attack or an iron hard skin to a basic manticore).

Spiney Norman
23-08-2011, 11:14
Thanks for the answers guys.

Im not sure i really want to use the new magic anyway, I prefer low magic impacting in a wargame. Oh and I want to houserule away dispell scrolls, double the costs of magic items, cap all magic users to a max lvl of 2 and somehow include a vancian magic system ala AD&D. I dont like the random spells at the start of battle and that magic spells never runs out. Even then, I think magic will be too powerful, but nothing that time and tweaking cant fix. My group wants to continue using our own fantasy campaign world where magic is just slightly more powerful than Tolkien or George RR Martins, but fantastic monsters are more common.

And thats what I really wanted to know was if the rules for including allies and monsters was compatible with 7th edition. Im guessing they are since the old army books still work with 8th (points costs and stats-wise) Yup, love big monsters. Plus Im thinking of scenarios where referee/DM gets to run wild monsters that attack units of any side that venture too close to their lairs.

All in all though, Im digging 7th edition more than 1st and 2nd, it makes more sense and is smoother in play. But I sure do love the atmosphere and coy british humor that is missing in the new editions. I just got a copy of 5th edition and the 15mm Warmaster rules as well, just the rulebooks without the boxes and figures, just for collecting purposes.

Im sure 8th is even better, but Ill find out in a few years when 9th comes out and all the 8th material sells on the cheap.

In fairness, if you don't like magic having a big impact on the game then I'm shocked that you are playing 7th instead of 8th. In 7th Edition magic literally decided games because the system was catastrophically unbalanced and there was so much disparity between individual armies. Daemons of chaos could pull together anything up to 20 power dice while your average wood elf army struggled to pool more than 6-8. At least in 8th Edition (and SoM) magic is a far more level playing field.

In answer to your question, SoM wont work well with 7th Edition because the magic system is so drastically different. At the very least you would have to transplant the 8th Edition magic system into the 7th Edition ruleset, which would probably work better than the 7th Ed magic system, but if you're going to do that you may as well be playing 8th Ed anyway.

Hamster Of Dooooom
23-08-2011, 12:18
Well, since most of you seem to really think 8th is a big improvement over 7th... I think Ill see if I can watch a game of it being played at the FLGS. But my group has yet to play our first game of 7th, so I still want to see how it goes b4 buying into 8th.

This coming weekend we are doing Eylau via Volley & Bayonet, but the next weekend will be our first game of Warhammer 7th.

Im playing wood elves and still sorting out my army. I have over 50 elf archers, 12 centaur wood elemental centaurs which ill use as wildriders. Ive got about 40 mage knight dryads, and 20 heroclix manthing/swampthings as treekin. I also got a few units of heavy armor elves with 2 handed swords, so i guess ill use high elf rules for them. My favorite unit will be my badgers dressed as scottish highlanders, complete with bagpipes, theyre metal and I have no idea who made them. Ill use them as eternal guard. Badgers seem suitable to having the Stubborn rule. I also got an elf chick on a green dragon.

The other three fellas have orcs, an "undead" assyrian chariot army, and a "planet of the apes" army using a rules mix of skaven and beastmen stats. Im going up against apes, and my orc friend is nervously going up against perhaps up to 18 chariots.

Im sure it will be fun and im also sure we will totally get some rules wrong and forget a bunch more. Either way, I hope my weasels and elves get the better of that ape army. And if 7th turns out to suck, then we will try 8th. If that doesnt work then back to 2nd edition we go, or maybe I will hunt down 3rd, as Ive heard rumors that its pretty good as well.

IcedCrow
23-08-2011, 16:47
Neither suck. They just cater to different mindsets (7th = chess tactics, 8th = flexible back up plans and more randomness)

Yes SoM can work in 7th with some tweaking. It sounds like you guys already tweak so it should be no problem.

Lester
23-08-2011, 19:35
Neither suck. They just cater to different mindsets (7th = chess tactics, 8th = flexible back up plans and more randomness)

Yes SoM can work in 7th with some tweaking. It sounds like you guys already tweak so it should be no problem.
Actual warfare is all an estimation game (hence why I think the random charges and random bits actually are better). If I wanted preditable moves, I'd play chess or checkers.