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snottlebocket
20-08-2011, 19:07
I want to check this just to be sure. Fear causing units only suffer fear, not terror when facing a terror causing enemy.

The fear rules also seem to be in effect if so much as one opposing model strikes fear into the opposing unit. Does this mean that a single wraith hero in a unit of skeletons can reduce an entire unit of opposing ogres to weapon skill 1? They don't fear the skeletons but they do fear that single wraith which seems to be enough for the full fear effect.

Yrrdead
20-08-2011, 19:20
You are correct on all counts.

GodlessM
20-08-2011, 19:20
This is correct. So as long as the unit is in base contact with the Wraith they take the fear test; note of course if the Skellies were wider than the Ogres and the Wraith was then out of base contact the test would not be required.

T10
21-08-2011, 10:14
I want to check this just to be sure. Fear causing units only suffer fear, not terror when facing a terror causing enemy.

The fear rules also seem to be in effect if so much as one opposing model strikes fear into the opposing unit. Does this mean that a single wraith hero in a unit of skeletons can reduce an entire unit of opposing ogres to weapon skill 1? They don't fear the skeletons but they do fear that single wraith which seems to be enough for the full fear effect.

This is correct.

I know you didn't ask for it, but here's a bit more on how fear works with combined units:

Just bear in mind that it is MODELS that cause fear, not units (though I guess a unit can be said to cause fear if alll the models in the unit has the Fear special rule), it is the UNIT that takes the fear test, and it is the MODELS that suff the penalties for a failed test.

Let's say you have a unit of Empire Halberdiers led by a Captain with the Shrieking Blade. The Halberdiers don't cause fear but the captain does.

They are fighting a unit of High Elf Phoenix Guard led by a Mage. The Phoenix Guard cause fear but the Mage does not.

Both units must make a Fear test. If the Empire unit fails then the Halberdiers suffer the penalty and have their WS reduced, but the Captain is unaffected: He causes fear and is immune to fear.

If the High Elf unit fails then the Phoenix Guard are unaffected as they too cause fear, but the Mage suffers the penalties.

Being led by a Fear causing character does not bestow immunity to Fear onto the unit, and having joined a Fear causing unit does not bestow immunity to Fear to the character.

Lord Dan
21-08-2011, 17:59
This is correct.

I know you didn't ask for it, but here's a bit more on how fear works with combined units:

Just bear in mind that it is MODELS that cause fear, not units (though I guess a unit can be said to cause fear if alll the models in the unit has the Fear special rule), it is the UNIT that takes the fear test, and it is the MODELS that suff the penalties for a failed test.

Let's say you have a unit of Empire Halberdiers led by a Captain with the Shrieking Blade. The Halberdiers don't cause fear but the captain does.

They are fighting a unit of High Elf Phoenix Guard led by a Mage. The Phoenix Guard cause fear but the Mage does not.

Both units must make a Fear test. If the Empire unit fails then the Halberdiers suffer the penalty and have their WS reduced, but the Captain is unaffected: He causes fear and is immune to fear.

If the High Elf unit fails then the Phoenix Guard are unaffected as they too cause fear, but the Mage suffers the penalties.

Being led by a Fear causing character does not bestow immunity to Fear onto the unit, and having joined a Fear causing unit does not bestow immunity to Fear to the character.
Thanks for that breakdown T10, that helps clear things up for me too.

In line with that example, let's say the Empire unit with the fear-causing character was up against a unit that caused terror. Per your example the empire unit would test for terror and the captain would test for fear.

What happens if the empire unit fails its terror test, and the captain makes (or fails, I guess it doesn't matter) its fear test?

snottlebocket
21-08-2011, 18:55
Thanks for that breakdown T10, that helps clear things up for me too.

In line with that example, let's say the Empire unit with the fear-causing character was up against a unit that caused terror. Per your example the empire unit would test for terror and the captain would test for fear.

What happens if the empire unit fails its terror test, and the captain makes (or fails, I guess it doesn't matter) its fear test?

Characters go along with their units. An unbreakable character would still flee if his unit does.

Mr_Rose
21-08-2011, 19:00
The unit would run away, taking the character with them; either the unit's panic spreads to him regardless of his [personal opinion of the charging thing, or he chases after them to try and get them to stand and fight (aka Rally).
Also, would not both the character and the unit have to take the Fear test once in combat (assuming it passes the panic check for Terror), since terror-causers also cause Fear in non-fearsome dudes?

T10
21-08-2011, 21:48
Thanks for that breakdown T10, that helps clear things up for me too.

In line with that example, let's say the Empire unit with the fear-causing character was up against a unit that caused terror. Per your example the empire unit would test for terror and the captain would test for fear.

What happens if the empire unit fails its terror test, and the captain makes (or fails, I guess it doesn't matter) its fear test?

If the Empire unit was charged by a model that causes Terror then it would have to take a Panic test as described in the Run For Your Lives part of the Terror special rule.

Note that a unit need not test for Terror if the unit consists ENTIRELY of models that cause Fear or Terror, or if the MAJORITY of the models in the unit are Immune to Psychology.

In combat the unit tests for Fear, not Terror. The Terror causing model causes Fear in the Halberdiers AND the Captain. Failing the test means they all suffer the penalty.

Lord Dan
21-08-2011, 22:21
In combat the unit tests for Fear, not Terror. The Terror causing model causes Fear in the Halberdiers AND the Captain. Failing the test means they all suffer the penalty.
Do they take a single test, or do they continue to test separately.

T10
22-08-2011, 14:41
If the unit is in contact with any number of enemy models that cause Fear, then the unit takes one test.

If the test is failed then the models that are subject to Fear (i.e. not immune) suffer the penalties.

-T10

Lord Dan
22-08-2011, 14:57
So why does the terror-causing unit cause fear in the fear-causing captain if, in combat, a terror-causing unit only causes fear?

Mr_Rose
22-08-2011, 17:00
So why does the terror-causing unit cause fear in the fear-causing captain if, in combat, a terror-causing unit only causes fear?
Because Terror-causing don't "only cause fear [in close combat]" and such units also cause Fear in Fearsome models, despite a Fearsome model's normal immunity to Fear.

Bloodedsoul
25-08-2011, 12:45
This came up in a game the other night with ogres against lizardmen, a unit of templeguard with a slann in the 2nd row that has terror charged a unit of ogres, took thier terror check and passed. In the close combat however did they have to check for fear since the unit was not in base contact with the slann but with the templeguard in the front row?

Loopstah
25-08-2011, 13:52
In the close combat however did they have to check for fear since the unit was not in base contact with the slann but with the templeguard in the front row?

No, they weren't in base contact with the Slann so they didn't have to test for Fear.

T10
25-08-2011, 14:19
This came up in a game the other night with ogres against lizardmen, a unit of templeguard with a slann in the 2nd row that has terror charged a unit of ogres, took thier terror check and passed. In the close combat however did they have to check for fear since the unit was not in base contact with the slann but with the templeguard in the front row?

The Ogres would not be required to take the Terror (Panic) test. This is because the Ogres cause Fear and therefore treats Terror as Fear. There is no test for being charged by Fear-causing enemies.

-T10