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Entreri Bloodletter
22-08-2011, 05:15
Basically does the Curse of Anraheir spell affect open terrain as it says ALL terrain except for impassable. Seems really nasty...

Page reference: 116 - Open terrain is listed as the first of four types of terrain so it would appear that it is affected by the spell


EDIT: Ok related question now that the ogre book is out:

Will a unit that has been affected by The Curse of Anraheir spell be subject to two dangerous terrain tests when it charges a gnoblar unit with the trapper upgrade? My thoughts are yes and here's why:

Dangerous Terrain (pg 117) Paraphrasing: Whenever a unit charges(pursues/ flee/etc...) through dangerous terrain it must take a dangerous terrain test.

Trapper upgrade for Gnoblars: Paraphrasing: Every model in the enemy unit must take a dangerous terrain test as soon as the charge is completed.



So it seems to me that they will take one once when they decide to charge, and another time when they complete the charge. When under the effects of the spell, they will lose models on a 1 or 2 both times. Meaning that statistically a unit should lose close to half their unit! Can anyone see any flaws in the argument?

Yrrdead
22-08-2011, 06:06
I think you will find that this has been asked a few times and to no specific resolution as I remember.

A. Yes it is pretty clear per the spell and the page reference.
B. No, though open terrain is listed it is not an actual terrain type and has no effect on the game.(This argument is usually supported with Fanatics(Edit- by people that cannot read >.<))

I personally have never had this come up in a game or tournament so I'm not much help. Though I put myself in the B camp.

Edit - Okay I'm dumb , yahoo for A.

Falkman
22-08-2011, 06:34
B. No, though open terrain is listed it is not an actual terrain type and has no effect on the game.(This argument is usually supported with Fanatics)
It's only supported with the Fanatic argument by people who cant read. ;)
The Fanatic rule mentions terrain pieces, which open terrain is not. It is still, however, terrain, so will be affected by the Curse.

Yrrdead
22-08-2011, 07:06
Right you are sir , my mistake.

Scalebug
22-08-2011, 23:17
It is really a thing you will have to agree on before the game until FAQ'ed...

Some people will claim it is clear, but it's not, really... some terrain may be "open terrain" (eg. ordinary hills), but the whether open ground, as in abcence of terrain, just he board, is "terrain" may or may not be true.

Personally, I'd say that while treating open ground as (open) terrain makes the spell (and lore in general) a bit less 'meh...', if it was intended to work that way, it would have been worded to say you are always counted as moving as in dangerous terrain.

Entreri Bloodletter
05-09-2011, 06:32
Will a unit that has been affected by The Curse of Anraheir spell be subject to two dangerous terrain tests when it charges a gnoblar unit with the trapper upgrade? My thoughts are yes and here's why:

Dangerous Terrain (pg 117) Paraphrasing: Whenever a unit charges(pursues/ flee/etc...) through dangerous terrain it must take a dangerous terrain test.

Trapper upgrade for Gnoblars: Paraphrasing: Every model in the enemy unit must take a dangerous terrain test as soon as the charge is completed.



So it seems to me that they will take one once when they decide to charge, and another time when they complete the charge. When under the effects of the spell, they will lose models on a 1 or 2 both times. Meaning that statistically a unit should lose close to half their unit! Can anyone see any flaws in the argument?

Mid'ean
05-09-2011, 13:34
Nope. Looks good to me.

Tregar
05-09-2011, 20:52
Someone did point out to me another argument in favour of the tabletop itself not counting as terrain: in the rules for warmachines, it says if they're deployed in terrain then they may not move... would be pretty silly as that'd mean a warmachine could never move even in open ground...

Falkman
05-09-2011, 21:01
The sentence right before that however clearly refers to open ground as terrain.

Tregar
05-09-2011, 21:04
Yeah, meaning the rules are saying that if you deploy a warmachine in open ground (terrain), it can't move (since it's terrain), but treats all other terrain as impassable (but can deploy in them anyway, so long as it seems reasonable). It makes little sense :)

Perhaps I should clarify, so if you read this, please ignore Scalebug's useless reply to it. You say: "The sentence right before that however clearly refers to open ground as terrain." and you are correct. The rules say: "a war machine is permitted to deploy in terrain, but if it does, it cannot move during the game except to pivot on the spot". So, the rules tell us about terrain including open ground, then tell us no movement after deploying in terrain. Do you see what I'm saying here?

Scalebug
05-09-2011, 21:24
No it doesn't mean that. Thinks "make little sense :)" to you only because you have misunderstood a simple sentence.

And the gnoblar trapper thing there, I don't think there is any restrictions on how many dangerous terrain tests you can take in a turn/move, is there? Even without Curse affecting the unit, you could simply have something like charging a unit in a poisoned forrest, across a swamp. Two tests. Three if they are gnobler trappers (?), four if they have the Curse on them, and you subscribe to the "the bare tabletop is terrain" view...

Tregar
05-09-2011, 21:25
You've not read the rules before shooting your mouth off as usual scalebug (Feel free to quote them and show me why what I said was wrong: if I am, I'll thank you for it!). It's getting old and boring.

(I know how the rules work, thanks to applying a little common sense, just like you do! I just recognise that they're written dumbly, and how there are references to "terrain" that mean if the tabletop truly is terrain, then applying certain rules to them can be a bit stupid! Whether Anraheir is one of them is up for debate, of course...)

Falkman
05-09-2011, 21:52
So, the rules tell us about terrain including open ground, then tell us no movement after deploying in terrain. Do you see what I'm saying here?
Absolutely, it's GW being laughably bad with their wording as usual. I don't believe it's evidence strong enough to disprove Curse affecting open ground however, since open ground is defined as terrain pretty much every time it's mentioned. In this case the failure of the wording seems to be in the sentence about "no movement after being deployed in terrain".
To me it seems they just left out "terrain piece" in that sentence. It makes more sense if it's only wrong in that one occasion, instead of being wrong pretty much everywhere else. ;)

Mid'ean
05-09-2011, 21:56
Yeah, meaning the rules are saying that if you deploy a warmachine in open ground (terrain), it can't move (since it's terrain), but treats all other terrain as impassable (but can deploy in them anyway, so long as it seems reasonable). It makes little sense :)

Perhaps I should clarify, so if you read this, please ignore Scalebug's useless reply to it. You say: "The sentence right before that however clearly refers to open ground as terrain." and you are correct. The rules say: "a war machine is permitted to deploy in terrain, but if it does, it cannot move during the game except to pivot on the spot". So, the rules tell us about terrain including open ground, then tell us no movement after deploying in terrain. Do you see what I'm saying here?

No, the rules are not saying that. A warmachine treats all terrain OTHER THAN open ground and hills as immpassable. So you can deploy your cannon in open terrain and be free to move it. You place it in other terrain, anything not open or hills., you can't move it. And people, if you go to the back of the book and find terrain, go to that page number, see types of terrain and the first one is...wait for it.....Open terrain!!

Scalebug
05-09-2011, 22:36
You've not read the rules before shooting your mouth off as usual scalebug (Feel free to quote them and show me why what I said was wrong: if I am, I'll thank you for it!). It's getting old and boring.

(I know how the rules work, thanks to applying a little common sense, just like you do! I just recognise that they're written dumbly, and how there are references to "terrain" that mean if the tabletop truly is terrain, then applying certain rules to them can be a bit stupid! Whether Anraheir is one of them is up for debate, of course...)


Rules are not written dumbly, you are simply failing to understand them. Don't fly off ("as usual") for making stupid statements and being called on it...


War machines treat all terrain other than open ground and hills as impassable

How is that "dumb" or unclear?

Falkman
06-09-2011, 00:09
How is that "dumb" or unclear?
The dumb thing is the sentence after that which says that they can be deployed in terrain, but won't be able to move. Which means that wherever you deploy them, they're in terrain (open ground) and can't move.
It IS dumb writing, which is quite common with GW.