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monly0906
23-08-2011, 22:21
If Nagash where to be released as a Special Character into an army book, which one would it be? Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts? I started reading his fluff and gotten a little interest in buying the old model.

Loopstah
23-08-2011, 22:24
Almost certainly not Tomb Kings considering they absolutely hate him more than anything else. They hated him before they were undead and considering he was the cause of them being undead they hate him even more now.

The vampires are pretty much his servants, though most of them ran away he would still have some control over them I imagine so Vampire Counts is more likely.

To be honest he would fit in better in a new Vampire/Undead army rather than the current Vamps which is basically Sylvania.

NTJ2010
23-08-2011, 22:49
Agreed with above he would be Vampire Counts

fruitystu
23-08-2011, 22:52
Rumours many years ago, which clearly never panned out, was for a third grouping of Undead, Nagashizzar.


And don't just read the background....read the trilogy. Good stuff!

someone2040
24-08-2011, 00:05
Personally I would not mind seeing a White Dwarf list for him. Throw in Kemmler, Krell, etc as well to make a Necromancer list.
But out of the two current lists, he definately fits into the Vampire Counts list more. He doesn't use the undead constructs of Khemri, nor would his bowmen be blessed by Asaph. Just doesn't really fit in with the Tomb Kings at all.

Baragash
24-08-2011, 08:14
IMO Nagash should be given rules similar to the Exalted Daemons in Storm of Magic and made available to both Tomb King and Vampire Count players. (In fact I'm writing myself some house rules for him atm).

Eternus
24-08-2011, 09:03
He should either have his own Nagashizzar list, or be part of a variant Vampire Counts list which is based around Nagash's minions and includes Vampires and Necromancers.

SunTzu
24-08-2011, 11:40
I'm having a hard time seeing what would be in the "Nagashizzar" list but not either the VCs or TK lists... except Nagash himself. Not much of a "list" there, I think.

Lathrael
24-08-2011, 11:46
It should be a VC variant, it isn't much different than VC to have it's own book, but partially different. So it will proably more undead monsters, Line of W'soran (necrarch) vampires, and minus black coach - vargulf - blood knights.

Eternus
24-08-2011, 11:49
I'm having a hard time seeing what would be in the "Nagashizzar" list but not either the VCs or TK lists... except Nagash himself. Not much of a "list" there, I think.

Basically everything from the VC list, but more large gribblies and less VC specific symbolic stuff like the black coach. More powerful Necromancers as Heros, powerful lieutenants like Kemmler & Arkhan the Black. Nagash would probably have his own magic Lore as well.

I also wonder whether there shouldn't some emphasis on the Strigoi Vampires, as there are lots of Ghouls around Nagashizzar and the Desolation of Nagash. Being as they are shunned by all the other bloodlines, it kinda makes sense that they would gravitate towards Nagash who would accept them like lost sons returned home, powerful champions for his army maybe?

IcedCrow
24-08-2011, 11:57
Nagash himself would be about 2000 points.

Andy p
24-08-2011, 12:13
^Yeah and bringing him would cause your opponent, and his/her troops, to erupt with skulls and clown costumes.

Gaargod
24-08-2011, 13:27
Problem is, there's no way you could use full strength Nagash and have anything like a fair game.

As a base level, Nagash is probably at like 4th Gen Slann level - not their control, but sheer brute force. Then pump him full of warpstone, and he soars to the level of 2nd Gen Slanns and Teclis. Give him all his many, many magic items of itemness, and he's the most powerful wizard in the game.
Think about it - just one item like his crown made an orc into a lv3 wizard! If it was working for its master, who knew how to use it, i daresay it could be a lot more helpful.

Then factor in the fact he's probably at least a Vampire Lord in terms of physical strength. After all, Arkhan the Black, who was never billed as a physical powerhouse, is still S5 T5 A3! The first vampires, who were only working off incomplete data, managed to become as strong as Greater Daemons.


So basically, you would something with the stats of a bloodthirster, with the magical power of Teclis/Kairos, who then has a great long list of magical items. He'd end up at the power level of Kroak when he was alive! So not only would he horribly break the magic game ("Ok, so Nagash gets an extra 4D6 dice for himself, with his +10 to cast"... Opponent: "Wait what now?"), unlike Teclis and Kairos, he'd actually beat the snot out of most combat lords.



You could always play with him at greatly reduced power (i.e. just recovering from his 'death'), but where's the fun? :P

angelofrage
24-08-2011, 14:02
He has always seemed to be an interesting character in the Fantasy setting, I hope they bring him back.

He would be ideal for FW to produce really. Nice large, highly detailed monster. Points wise, price him along side the exalted daemons (775 pts) and with both combat and magic skills.

malisteen
24-08-2011, 15:05
Yeah, a FW model, usable in either Vamps or tomb kings.

As for why Tomb Kings would work for Nagash, the answer is obvious. Not by choice. He made them, and he can control them. Not all of them at once, and not the most powerful of them, at least not since his fall from power, but certainly he can exert enough control seize command of a large enough force to play a game of warhammer with.

The ideal army for Nagash would be a Vamp counts storm of magic army with a tomb kings pact for the monsters & magic allowance.

dragonet111
24-08-2011, 15:23
What about a Warhammer Forge book. Something with the 'life' of Nagash with rules and models for every incarnation of the Lord of Death.
Like the Tamurkhan Throne but revolving around Nagash.

herohammer
24-08-2011, 15:26
I think he will be in the next VC book given that Arkhan made it into the TK book. He may even let you take Arkhan or other TK stuff in a VC army but I would say that he has been away from Nehekhara for so long by this point that his armies would probably look way more like VC armies than TK armies so maybe not.

Arkhan is in the TK book since he still hangs around in Nehekhara and uses undead from the same ancient civilization as the TK so it makes sense for him to have chariots, constructs, etc.

Nagash doesn't live there anymore and that is the best argument imho for him being a purely VC character.

Ravenar
24-08-2011, 15:33
Back in the days of playing Nagash, he was a massive 750 points (iirc) and really not that powerful (when compared to other lvl 4 SCs of today). He was fun to play in his clown hat. As far as army character choices you had Vamps, Wights, Liche and Necromancer heroes, and as far the rest of the army you saw Skeletons (hand weapons and bow choice), zombies (had a sweet champion character with a little top hat), ghouls, mummies (blocks of em), skull catapults, carrion riders, wraiths and skeletal horsemen. It was a fun army and I missed most of my units when VC came out. I eventualy dropped the army entirely in favor of Brets.

malisteen
24-08-2011, 15:41
He was up there with the Slaan of his day in terms of power. I'd imagine the same would hold today if he received new rules. I enjoyed running him, he was cool. I liked old undead, too. I've adapted to vamp counts (they kept more variety then tomb kings did), but I've never been as happy with the vamp-centric fluff as I was with the more general undead fluff.

sabbathstevie
24-08-2011, 20:19
Hope GW would take notice of some of the ideas in this thread!

It would be great to see a pretty powerful nagash coming back to fore... Fair enough he would be too powerful for any old game but the chance to have a new and fanatic model along with rules for the epic kind of campaign that might support him and some in depth fluff showing the fruition of his centuries of planning...

It's been mooted for so long without any substance but with Arkhan returning, VC up for a revamp soon(ish) and the recent completion of the Nagash TOL series, it's looking more and more likely...hopefully!

White_13oy
25-08-2011, 05:54
If he's released, he better shoot rainbows outta his mouth and when he miscasts, everyone takes a strength one hit as they rub the party popper confetti outta their hair.

Oh and Arkhan now rides a clown car 3x too small pulled by ghouls with party hats on and make-up.

Halelel
25-08-2011, 07:41
Not sure if it ever got archived here, but I remember reading a player-made army book that featured Nagash and the third undead force as a spirit / ethereal based army.

Centered around Nagash in his "immortal" form and various forms of ethereal creatures using rules similar to the old Necron "We'll Be Back!" to represent them always coming back. Things like spirits hosts, banshees, wraiths, nightshades, liches, shadows, and various ghost creatures (like a ghost dragon from D&D for inspiration IIRC). It was a pretty weak combat army, but made up for it by being resilient.

Wasn't perfect, but was quite an interesting concept rather than just another variant of a Vampire Counts army.

White_13oy
25-08-2011, 17:11
If it's the same one I remember. Wasn't there a unit called 'Cultist of Nagash'. It was a rare choice if I remember correctly.